clujer420 Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 I've been reading a lot of posts lately ripping Frank Thomas. As I've proclaimed many times, I'm a huge fan of Frank's, and I feel that the recent ripping of him is unwarrented. Granted, his 10 RBI is way too low for early May, but, does he deserve all the flack he's getting? Let's see.... I looked up some stats. Frank in the following situations.... RISP -- .444 OBP RISP w/ 2 out -- .583 OBP Runners on -- .483 OBP Late inning pressure -- .500 OBP After the 7th -- .472 OBP First inning -- .414 OBP GIDP -- 3 Very acceptable numbers. Granted, he is paid to not only get on base but also to drive in runs, but let's see what the guys after him have done in the same situations.... Magglio -- .362, .350, .319, .667, .382, .208, 7, respectively Konerko -- .333, .316, .321, .100, .176, .429, 7, respectively Lee -- .387, .500, .333, .091, .206, .800, 5, respectively Crede -- .308, .353, .294, .462, .371, .400, 1, respectively OK....I know that some of you may not be a big numbers freak, but I think that baseball relies heavily upon numbers. Basically what these numbers suggest is that Frank is at least getting on base -- pretty much in every crucial situation. He's setting the table for those "sluggers" behind him. Sure, his job is mainly to drive in the guys ahead of him, but at least he's not killing the rallies. He's drawing walks while he's struggling and at least giving the team a chance to score runs. Frank has scored 13 runs this year. He's been on base 53 times. Let me say that again. 53 times on base, 13 runs scored. What the f***? Frank needs to start hitting, don't get me wrong. But, as long as guys after Frank are grounding into DP's and stranding runners on base like there's no tomorrow, I think all of you need to place more of the blame where it belongs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 problem is frank is on pace for about 50 -60 rbi and thats with jimenez and valentin both hitting welll ahead of him...now what will happen is frank will start to hit and jimenez and val will go cold and then you see alot of 2 out singles and doubles from frank...this team is too streaky..we need some guys that hit consistently Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 I've been reading a lot of posts lately ripping Frank Thomas. As I've proclaimed many times, I'm a huge fan of Frank's, and I feel that the recent ripping of him is unwarrented. Granted, his 10 RBI is way too low for early May, but, does he deserve all the flack he's getting? Let's see.... I looked up some stats. Frank in the following situations.... RISP -- .444 OBP RISP w/ 2 out -- .583 OBP Runners on -- .483 OBP Late inning pressure -- .500 OBP After the 7th -- .472 OBP First inning -- .414 OBP GIDP -- 3 Very acceptable numbers. Granted, he is paid to not only get on base but also to drive in runs, but let's see what the guys after him have done in the same situations.... Magglio -- .362, .350, .319, .667, .382, .208, 7, respectively Konerko -- .333, .316, .321, .100, .176, .429, 7, respectively Lee -- .387, .500, .333, .091, .206, .800, 5, respectively Crede -- .308, .353, .294, .462, .371, .400, 1, respectively OK....I know that some of you may not be a big numbers freak, but I think that baseball relies heavily upon numbers. Basically what these numbers suggest is that Frank is at least getting on base -- pretty much in every crucial situation. He's setting the table for those "sluggers" behind him. Sure, his job is mainly to drive in the guys ahead of him, but at least he's not killing the rallies. He's drawing walks while he's struggling and at least giving the team a chance to score runs. Frank has scored 13 runs this year. He's been on base 53 times. Let me say that again. 53 times on base, 13 runs scored. What the f***? Frank needs to start hitting, don't get me wrong. But, as long as guys after Frank are grounding into DP's and stranding runners on base like there's no tomorrow, I think all of you need to place more of the blame where it belongs. Where did you get your numbers? Frank is hitting .143 with RISP, .167 RISP and 2 outs, .200 with runners on, .250 close and late, I couldn't find the other numbers, but I would be interested to see your source on the rest of them! http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/spli...ts?statsId=4527 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted May 5, 2003 Author Share Posted May 5, 2003 I've been reading a lot of posts lately ripping Frank Thomas. As I've proclaimed many times, I'm a huge fan of Frank's, and I feel that the recent ripping of him is unwarrented. Granted, his 10 RBI is way too low for early May, but, does he deserve all the flack he's getting? Let's see.... I looked up some stats. Frank in the following situations.... RISP -- .444 OBP RISP w/ 2 out -- .583 OBP Runners on -- .483 OBP Late inning pressure -- .500 OBP After the 7th -- .472 OBP First inning -- .414 OBP GIDP -- 3 Very acceptable numbers. Granted, he is paid to not only get on base but also to drive in runs, but let's see what the guys after him have done in the same situations.... Magglio -- .362, .350, .319, .667, .382, .208, 7, respectively Konerko -- .333, .316, .321, .100, .176, .429, 7, respectively Lee -- .387, .500, .333, .091, .206, .800, 5, respectively Crede -- .308, .353, .294, .462, .371, .400, 1, respectively OK....I know that some of you may not be a big numbers freak, but I think that baseball relies heavily upon numbers. Basically what these numbers suggest is that Frank is at least getting on base -- pretty much in every crucial situation. He's setting the table for those "sluggers" behind him. Sure, his job is mainly to drive in the guys ahead of him, but at least he's not killing the rallies. He's drawing walks while he's struggling and at least giving the team a chance to score runs. Frank has scored 13 runs this year. He's been on base 53 times. Let me say that again. 53 times on base, 13 runs scored. What the f***? Frank needs to start hitting, don't get me wrong. But, as long as guys after Frank are grounding into DP's and stranding runners on base like there's no tomorrow, I think all of you need to place more of the blame where it belongs. Where did you get your numbers? Frank is hitting .143 with RISP, .167 RISP and 2 outs, .200 with runners on, .250 close and late, I couldn't find the other numbers, but I would be interested to see your source on the rest of them! http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/spli...ts?statsId=4527 I posted his OBP, not his batting averages. http://www.vegasinsider.com/u/baseball/mlb.../8126_split.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Very good work cluj. I think his point is, that altho Frank may not be adding runs, hes not preventing them either. And shouldnt we be able to count on Maggs to drive in runs consistently, which he is not doing? I hate when guys swing at bad pitches so Im not going to ask Frank to cut down on walks and start swinging at those pitches. There are several other people who deserve a lot more blame than Frank... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 I've been reading a lot of posts lately ripping Frank Thomas. As I've proclaimed many times, I'm a huge fan of Frank's, and I feel that the recent ripping of him is unwarrented. Granted, his 10 RBI is way too low for early May, but, does he deserve all the flack he's getting? Let's see.... I looked up some stats. Frank in the following situations.... RISP -- .444 OBP RISP w/ 2 out -- .583 OBP Runners on -- .483 OBP Late inning pressure -- .500 OBP After the 7th -- .472 OBP First inning -- .414 OBP GIDP -- 3 Very acceptable numbers. Granted, he is paid to not only get on base but also to drive in runs, but let's see what the guys after him have done in the same situations.... Magglio -- .362, .350, .319, .667, .382, .208, 7, respectively Konerko -- .333, .316, .321, .100, .176, .429, 7, respectively Lee -- .387, .500, .333, .091, .206, .800, 5, respectively Crede -- .308, .353, .294, .462, .371, .400, 1, respectively OK....I know that some of you may not be a big numbers freak, but I think that baseball relies heavily upon numbers. Basically what these numbers suggest is that Frank is at least getting on base -- pretty much in every crucial situation. He's setting the table for those "sluggers" behind him. Sure, his job is mainly to drive in the guys ahead of him, but at least he's not killing the rallies. He's drawing walks while he's struggling and at least giving the team a chance to score runs. Frank has scored 13 runs this year. He's been on base 53 times. Let me say that again. 53 times on base, 13 runs scored. What the f***? Frank needs to start hitting, don't get me wrong. But, as long as guys after Frank are grounding into DP's and stranding runners on base like there's no tomorrow, I think all of you need to place more of the blame where it belongs. Where did you get your numbers? Frank is hitting .143 with RISP, .167 RISP and 2 outs, .200 with runners on, .250 close and late, I couldn't find the other numbers, but I would be interested to see your source on the rest of them! http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/spli...ts?statsId=4527 I posted his OBP, not his batting averages. http://www.vegasinsider.com/u/baseball/mlb.../8126_split.htm Well those batting averages are why people are bashing him. He is supposed to be driving in runs. That is why he is making $5 mil a year. If he was our leadoff hitter than people could look at his walks in a different light. As it stands now, he isn't coming through in the clutch the way he is supposed to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted May 5, 2003 Author Share Posted May 5, 2003 Well those batting averages are why people are bashing him. He is supposed to be driving in runs. That is why he is making $5 mil a year. If he was our leadoff hitter than people could look at his walks in a different light. As it stands now, he isn't coming through in the clutch the way he is supposed to. I hate to do this because I really like him, but what about "the best player in Chicago", Magglio Ordonez? Frank has gotten on base for Magglio 53 times, and Magglio has had TONS of RBI opportunites, and he's got 19 RBI. That's not THAT many more than Frank. He's making twice as much as Frank is, and he's due to make $14M next season. I think it's time HE starts earning his keep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 I hate to do this because I really like him, but what about "the best player in Chicago", Magglio Ordonez? Frank has gotten on base for Magglio 53 times, and Magglio has had TONS of RBI opportunites, and he's got 19 RBI. That's not THAT many more than Frank. He's making twice as much as Frank is, and he's due to make $14M next season. I think it's time HE starts earning his keep. #1 Magglio isn't consulting his own personal hitting coach and ignoring the advice of the teams current coaches. #2 Magglio hasn't been crying to the media about the way he is getting pitched. #3 Magglio still tries to hit the ball the other way with runners on the right side of the IF. #4 Magglio goes out and hustles in RF even when he isn't hitting. #5 Basically out outside of Valentin and maybe Jimenez, this whole team has been awful in the clutch. This whole team needs to start earning its keep. Frank is a lightning rod for controversy, because of his own big mouth, everything he does is magnified. No one else on this team has that air about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreye Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 I've been reading a lot of posts lately ripping Frank Thomas. As I've proclaimed many times, I'm a huge fan of Frank's, and I feel that the recent ripping of him is unwarrented. Granted, his 10 RBI is way too low for early May, but, does he deserve all the flack he's getting? Let's see.... I looked up some stats. Frank in the following situations.... RISP -- .444 OBP RISP w/ 2 out -- .583 OBP Runners on -- .483 OBP Late inning pressure -- .500 OBP After the 7th -- .472 OBP First inning -- .414 OBP GIDP -- 3 Very acceptable numbers. Granted, he is paid to not only get on base but also to drive in runs, but let's see what the guys after him have done in the same situations.... Magglio -- .362, .350, .319, .667, .382, .208, 7, respectively Konerko -- .333, .316, .321, .100, .176, .429, 7, respectively Lee -- .387, .500, .333, .091, .206, .800, 5, respectively Crede -- .308, .353, .294, .462, .371, .400, 1, respectively OK....I know that some of you may not be a big numbers freak, but I think that baseball relies heavily upon numbers. Basically what these numbers suggest is that Frank is at least getting on base -- pretty much in every crucial situation. He's setting the table for those "sluggers" behind him. Sure, his job is mainly to drive in the guys ahead of him, but at least he's not killing the rallies. He's drawing walks while he's struggling and at least giving the team a chance to score runs. Frank has scored 13 runs this year. He's been on base 53 times. Let me say that again. 53 times on base, 13 runs scored. What the f***? Frank needs to start hitting, don't get me wrong. But, as long as guys after Frank are grounding into DP's and stranding runners on base like there's no tomorrow, I think all of you need to place more of the blame where it belongs. Thank you for that. It helped me win an arguement at work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted May 5, 2003 Author Share Posted May 5, 2003 #1 Magglio isn't consulting his own personal hitting coach and ignoring the advice of the teams current coaches. #2 Magglio hasn't been crying to the media about the way he is getting pitched. #3 Magglio still tries to hit the ball the other way with runners on the right side of the IF. #4 Magglio goes out and hustles in RF even when he isn't hitting. #5 Basically out outside of Valentin and maybe Jimenez, this whole team has been awful in the clutch. This whole team needs to start earning its keep. Frank is a lightning rod for controversy, because of his own big mouth, everything he does is magnified. No one else on this team has that air about them. What does Frank consulting with Walt have to do with anything? Would you rather he stays content with .240 and hits that all year long? And Frank has always been this way -- he's "ignored the advice of the teams current coaches" for years now, by most accounts. Were you complaining about it when he was putting up .330, 40, 120? I doubt it. When did Frank cry to the media? I read him say that he's getting busted inside. That's crying? Sounds like a statement of the obvious to me. Most everytime I see Magglio hitting with runners on base, he's PULLING to ball to SS for a nice easy 6-4-3. Maybe I'm seeing a different Magglio at the plate. Hustling in RF is nice, and I think Magglio is an above average RF'er, but you can't fault Frank for being a DH. That's the manager's call, not Frank's. And Frank is a "lightning rod" for controversy because like you said, everything he does or says is under a microscope. He's still the #1 superstar on this team. Magglio may be a better player, but there's nobody who garners as much attention as Frank does. Good, bad, or indifferent, that's how it is. And you're right -- most everybody needs to start earning their paychecks, and soon. Otherwise, this season might be wasted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Two things really drew my attention. Carlos Lee....OBP in the first inning - .800. Carlos Lee....OBP in late inning pressure situations.... .091. Paul Konerko....ditto - .429. Paul Konerko....ditto again - .100 What in the hell is that? They may help set the tone early....but they haven't helped the team late in the game. I then look at Crede....who's probably looked the worst out of any of our big slugger-types right now....and in late inning pressure situations.... .462. He's hitting like a buck over his last 10-15 games....and those may be inflated a little from prevous games...but point blank, he isn't getting out. Only Konerko has the excuse of not hitting well....because he has been absolutely god-awful at the plate. It doesn't mean he can't get on base though. If given the chance...I'd trade either in a heartbeat. I've mentioned who I'd trade who to and what I'd get in return....but I've said that enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted May 5, 2003 Author Share Posted May 5, 2003 Two things really drew my attention. Carlos Lee....OBP in the first inning - .800. Carlos Lee....OBP in late inning pressure situations.... .091. Paul Konerko....ditto - .429. Paul Konerko....ditto again - .100 What in the hell is that? They may help set the tone early....but they haven't helped the team late in the game. I then look at Crede....who's probably looked the worst out of any of our big slugger-types right now....and in late inning pressure situations.... .462. He's hitting like a buck over his last 10-15 games....and those may be inflated a little from prevous games...but point blank, he isn't getting out. Only Konerko has the excuse of not hitting well....because he has been absolutely god-awful at the plate. It doesn't mean he can't get on base though. If given the chance...I'd trade either in a heartbeat. I've mentioned who I'd trade who to and what I'd get in return....but I've said that enough. Yes. I think Carlos only has 5 1st inning AB's, and he's obviously reached base in 4 of them. The only logical reason I can come up with is that if a pitcher is facing the #6 guy in the first inning, he's obviously struggling, and Carlos is taking advantage of it. As for PK... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Of course it's a good thing that Carlos is getting on in the first inning...but IMO, he should have more than 5 at-bats in the first thus far. This team's offense is too good to not have him getting up more than 5 times a month. PK.....he's the true mystery. I hope he can figure something out. He's killing us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Didn't see any of the games against Seattle, other then the first two innings of Saturday's game, but prior to that Konerko was looking a whole lot better and hopefully he can keep building on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafacosta Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 The problem with Frank is in his head... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 The problem with frank is with his agression. He's not an agressive hitter and he gets stuck thinking too much about his swing, which slows his bat down just a bit, and that keeps him from being more explosive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafacosta Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 When Frank starts to listen the others he will be fine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox247 Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Who's REALLY the problem? You can't single it down to one person, its the whole team thats struggling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonkeyKongerko Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Somewhere around 1998 Frank decided to think at the plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Who's REALLY the problem? You can't single it down to one person, its the whole team thats struggling. you hit the nail on the head...... were leaving too many guys stranded on base, when they do get on base and were not getting on base enough at other times ....that is a team effort not just nailed down to one or two guys.........mho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted May 6, 2003 Author Share Posted May 6, 2003 Who's REALLY the problem? You can't single it down to one person, its the whole team thats struggling. you hit the nail on the head...... were leaving too many guys stranded on base, when they do get on base and were not getting on base enough at other times ....that is a team effort not just nailed down to one or two guys.........mho Well DUH! Of course it's a team effort. The entire team needs to step up in order for us to go places this year. My point in this thread was to get people off of Frank's back by showing that while he's struggling, he's hardly the reason we're 15-16. Our 3-7 are awful so far, and it needs to change. Now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 point taken.. but i havent been on franks back...hes the only one getting on base consistantly so why dis on him... now if you were defending dumbass lee then it would be a different story....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted May 6, 2003 Author Share Posted May 6, 2003 point taken.. but i havent been on franks back...hes the only one getting on base consistantly so why dis on him... now if you were defending dumbass lee then it would be a different story....... Not everyone has been dissing Frank, but I've seen more and more posts questioning his ability, contributions to the team, etc, and I'm getting sick of it. He's not hitting well at all, but he's at least doing SOMETHING to try and help the team win. If only guys like Crede, Konerko, and Lee would take as many pitches as Frank does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 If only guys like Crede, Konerko, and Lee would take as many pitches as Frank does. THEN WE WOULD BE IN FREAKIN FIRST PLACE.............LOL LOL LOL......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Ive been a Frank Thomas fan all my life. In fact, thats why Im a Sox fan. He was the first player I knew. And he will always be my favorite. In my days on message boards, Ive probably criticized every player weve had, but I dont think Ive ever criticized Thomas. Constructive criticism but not "you suck" criticism. I love Thomas and I always will. Hes a legend in my mind. Jeezus, his bashers are so ungrateful, they must be French... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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