southsider2k5 Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Aug 11, 2005 -> 10:30 AM) This is too easy If it never gets reported then what basis do you have for your statement? How do you know that Frank has been put on waivers repeatedly? Where did you get that information if it was never reported? Let's try to use common sense here. If a player is placed on waivers then all MLB teams know about it as does the player's union & player himself. There is no confidentiality agreement governing this information. So it's ridiculous to suggest ALL or even most marquee players get put on waivers & no one ever reports it. Put another way, if the NYY$ put A-Rod, Jeter, Posada, Randy Johnson, or Mike Mussina on waivers do you really believe not one NY reporter would write about it? Not if it is a part of standard operating procedure every year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 Hey juggs, it helps to know what you are talking about when you say there is no such thing as irrevocable waivers. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1650053 however, there is no tooth fairy. Santa Claus is another story. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That's a DIFFERENT waiver period altogether! We are talking REGULAR season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Aug 11, 2005 -> 10:34 AM) That's a DIFFERENT waiver period altogether! We are talking REGULAR season! Then don't go saying "There is no such thing as ... ". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Aug 11, 2005 -> 09:30 AM) This is too easy If it never gets reported then what basis do you have for your statement? How do you know that Frank has been put on waivers repeatedly? Where did you get that information if it was never reported? Let's try to use common sense here. If a player is placed on waivers then all MLB teams know about it as does the player's union & player himself. There is no confidentiality agreement governing this information. So it's ridiculous to suggest ALL or even most marquee players get put on waivers & no one ever reports it. Put another way, if the NYY$ put A-Rod, Jeter, Posada, Randy Johnson, or Mike Mussina on waivers do you really believe not one NY reporter would write about it? Did you hear about Jaime Moyer being placed on waivers last week? NO. You heard he declined a trade to the Yankees, who claimed him ON WAIVERS. Most players on the 40 man are place on waivers this time of year, and its not a big deal, because for 99% of them if they are claimed will be pulled off the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Aug 11, 2005 -> 10:34 AM) That's a DIFFERENT waiver period altogether! We are talking REGULAR season! Dont try and clarify after the fact. you know what you said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Aug 11, 2005 -> 09:34 AM) That's a DIFFERENT waiver period altogether! We are talking REGULAR season! And that is when the media was making a big deal out of Manny being put on waivers, besides that we've never heard of it and I'm fairly certain he's been put on waivers in the regular season every single year for a while now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 Until I can be showed the waiver transaction wire listing for Remlinger and/or Moyer, this discussion is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 With respect to waivers the CBA makes reference to MLB Rule 10. If you can find information pertaining to that rule that should end this debate. There is no mention of irrevocable waivers in the CBA or any official document I've been able to find in MLB. I will always believe official documents over ESPN news reports. Reporters make mistakes all the time. That's why they print corrections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Aug 11, 2005 -> 09:42 AM) With respect to waivers the CBA makes reference to MLB Rule 10. If you can find information pertaining to that rule that should end this debate. There is no mention of irrevocable waivers in the CBA or any official document I've been able to find in MLB. I will always believe official documents over ESPN news reports. Reporters make mistakes all the time. That's why they print corrections. Juggs, there is irrevokable waivers, that's what Manny was put on before the start of last season, I am 100 percent sure of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Aug 11, 2005 -> 10:42 AM) With respect to waivers the CBA makes reference to MLB Rule 10. If you can find information pertaining to that rule that should end this debate. There is no mention of irrevocable waivers in the CBA or any official document I've been able to find in MLB. I will always believe official documents over ESPN news reports. Reporters make mistakes all the time. That's why they print corrections. Find me a correction on ESPN.com that says irrevocable waivers dont exist, and that the reporter made it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Aug 11, 2005 -> 10:42 AM) With respect to waivers the CBA makes reference to MLB Rule 10. If you can find information pertaining to that rule that should end this debate. There is no mention of irrevocable waivers in the CBA or any official document I've been able to find in MLB. I will always believe official documents over ESPN news reports. Reporters make mistakes all the time. That's why they print corrections. Show me where Remlinger or Moyer was listed in the daily transaction wire with either ... was placed on waivers .. was claimed off of waivers ... has cleared waivers ... or .. was withdrawn from waivers. Not an after the fact item by a reporter, but the MLB daily transaction listings that are in the newspapers daily. When you show me one of those .. I will yeild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 10/30/03: Red Sox place Manny Ramirez on irrevokable waivers. Ramirez is a great hitter, but his fielding is lackluster, his throwing arm poor, and his desire to play in Boston weak. He's due $20.4 million this year alone, and $104 million over five. He was the consolation prize in the Mike Mussina courting, and the Red Sox plainly spent too much. If Ramirez clears waivers, he could still get traded (with cash) for a boatload of prospects to the Mets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 Did you hear about Jaime Moyer being placed on waivers last week? NO. You heard he declined a trade to the Yankees, who claimed him ON WAIVERS. Most players on the 40 man are place on waivers this time of year, and its not a big deal, because for 99% of them if they are claimed will be pulled off the list. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I will be kind in my reply & give an example of your logic: A: A is a fact because I told you so. B: A is not a fact because I told you so. A: It is too a fact because you can't prove it's not. B: It is not a fact because you can't prove it is. And so A & B argue endlessly without being able to prove anything. What's the point? With respect to Moyer why was he put on waivers? To facilitate a trade to the NYY$. He was not put on waivers just to gauge interest. The two GM's had talked over the trade parameters prior to Seattle putting him on waivers. This is common sense stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 Hawk, who at one time was a GM was talking about irrevocable waivers the other night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Aug 11, 2005 -> 10:49 AM) I will be kind in my reply & give an example of your logic: A: A is a fact because I told you so. B: A is not a fact because I told you so. A: It is too a fact because you can't prove it's not. B: It is not a fact because you can't prove it is. And so A & B argue endlessly without being able to prove anything. What's the point? With respect to Moyer why was he put on waivers? To facilitate a trade to the NYY$. He was not put on waivers just to gauge interest. The two GM's had talked over the trade parameters prior to Seattle putting him on waivers. This is common sense stuff. Show me the listing in the MLB daily transaction wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Aug 11, 2005 -> 09:49 AM) I will be kind in my reply & give an example of your logic: A: A is a fact because I told you so. B: A is not a fact because I told you so. A: It is too a fact because you can't prove it's not. B: It is not a fact because you can't prove it is. And so A & B argue endlessly without being able to prove anything. What's the point? With respect to Moyer why was he put on waivers? To facilitate a trade to the NYY$. He was not put on waivers just to gauge interest. The two GM's had talked over the trade parameters prior to Seattle putting him on waivers. This is common sense stuff. My point was Moyer was placed on waivers and it was not in any paper or any news report. I never said waivers was to gauge interest. I'm pretty sure every GM has a pretty good idea who has interest in all their players. I will guarantee you hundreds of players have either cleared waivers or have been placed on waivers since July 31. Edited August 11, 2005 by Dick Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Aug 11, 2005 -> 10:55 AM) My point was Moyer was placed on waivers and it was not in any paper or any news report. I never said waivers was to gauge interest. I'm pretty sure every GM has a pretty good idea who has interest in all their players. I will guarantee you hundreds of players have either cleared waivers or have been placed on waivers since Aug. 31. July 31 ... I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 QUOTE(YASNY @ Aug 11, 2005 -> 09:56 AM) July 31 ... I think. Yes, July 31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 Show me where Remlinger or Moyer was listed in the daily transaction wire with either ... was placed on waivers .. was claimed off of waivers ... has cleared waivers ... or .. was withdrawn from waivers. Not an after the fact item by a reporter, but the MLB daily transaction listings that are in the newspapers daily. When you show me one of those .. I will yeild. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You people are sad. It's IMPLIED that during THIS waiver period any team seeking to trade a player must first CLEAR that player thru waivers. Just as it is IMPLIED that any player out of minor league options during ANY waiver period must CLEAR waivers to be DFA'd. The rest is common sense. 08/05/05 - Cubs DFA Remlinger. DFA w/out ml options = MUST clear waivers. Bus day 1. 08/09/05 - RSox complete trade for Remlinger. 3rd bus days. The Cubs & RSox worked a trade out for Remlinger prior to the Cubs DFA'g him. The RSox claimed him off waivers but had to wait it out for any competing claims. After the close of the 3rd bus day RSox completed the trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 YOU said we'd know about it. That all these players going through waivers would be known. I'm saying SHOW ME!.... You said it. Back it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 QUOTE(YASNY @ Aug 11, 2005 -> 10:08 AM) YOU said we'd know about it. That all these players going through waivers would be known. I'm saying SHOW ME!.... You said it. Back it up. Is there a number attatched? If not he might not be able to find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 QUOTE(YASNY @ Aug 11, 2005 -> 10:23 AM) There is such a thing as irrevocable waivers. Nope.. no such thing. http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/bo...t=.jsp&c_id=bos How irrevocable waivers work By Jim Molony / MLB.com In a surprise move, the Boston Red Sox placed outfielder Manny Ramirez on irrevocable waivers Wednesday. But what are irrevocable waivers, and how do they work? MLB.com, with an assist from Houston assistant general manager Tim Purpura, explains the ins and outs of the process: More at link. :rolly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Aug 11, 2005 -> 11:10 AM) Is there a number attatched? If not he might not be able to find it. All I've been trying to say is that players put on waivers, claimed on waivers, cleared through waivers or withdrawn from waivers are NOT commonly reported. It was stated that we'd know about all these transactions. We don't know about these because it is such a common occurance. We know of at least two players (Remlinger and Moyer) that have been placed on waivers and have either been been claimed or cleared. If I would be shown in the MLB daily transactions that are printed in every newspaper across the country that one of these was listed, then I would gladly yield to Juggs point. So far, I haven't seen that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 QUOTE(Steff @ Aug 11, 2005 -> 11:14 AM) Nope.. no such thing. http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/bo...t=.jsp&c_id=bos How irrevocable waivers work By Jim Molony / MLB.com In a surprise move, the Boston Red Sox placed outfielder Manny Ramirez on irrevocable waivers Wednesday. But what are irrevocable waivers, and how do they work? MLB.com, with an assist from Houston assistant general manager Tim Purpura, explains the ins and outs of the process: More at link. :rolly Thank you. This proves quote from that article proves my point. The waiver procedure is a confidential procedure, and we're prohibited from commenting on it," team spokesman Kevin Shea told the Associated Press. "We're not permitted to say whether a player is on or is not on waivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 Here's why waivers are NOT reported UNLESS a move is made. Q: Aren't irrevocable waivers supposed to be confidential? A: All waivers are supposed to be confidential. Most players are put on waivers now and then for various reasons, such as to gauge interest, but most players never even know they're on waivers. Q: Can a team or individual be penalized for breaking that confidentiality? A: Yes, teams can be fined if they have been found to have leaked information on waivers, but that does not happen very often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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