Ozzie's "homosexual" remark

[longshot7]

Why does everyone say that he's equating the two? He threw two different insults at the guy. The way I read it he called him one name and then the other...not "homosexual and a child molester" or "homosexual child molester" but "he's a homosexual! he's a child molester!"

 

Why is being called homosexual an "insult"?? This is the root of the problem! That corollation, like calling your friends "gay" or trying to insult someone by claiming they perform gay acts - you're insinuating there is a right and wrong about people's sexual orientation and there isn't. Ozzie deserves to be called on this. It's not right. He doesn't deserve to be fired or anything like that, just to be called out publicly to watch his mouth. That the sentiment exists in his mind, as it seems in most people's, is what's wrong in all this. For it to come on the heels of him commenting about a radio host's broad generalizations about Latinos is ironic to say the least.

[Kogs35]

i would love to take down the tribsters or at least morrisey and get that ass clown fired. and the editor dan im a f***ing clown mcgrath for publishing it

[Kogs35]

and oddly enough my pr and marketing teacher from 03-04 school year's husband writes in the car section for the tribune

[South Side Fireworks Man]

Why is being called homosexual an "insult"?? This is the root of the problem!  That corollation, like calling your friends "gay" or trying to insult someone by claiming they perform gay acts - you're insinuating there is a right and wrong about people's sexual orientation and there isn't.  Ozzie deserves to be called on this.  It's not right.  He doesn't deserve to be fired or anything like that, just to be called out publicly to watch his mouth.  That the sentiment exists in his mind, as it seems in most people's, is what's wrong in all this.  For it to come on the heels of him commenting about a radio host's broad generalizations about Latinos is ironic to say the least.

Homosexual activity is abnormal. That is a fact. If it weren't abnormal, at least fifty percent of humans and animals would routinely engage in homosexual acts. In reality a very very small percentage do.

 

In addition to being abnormal, most societies and civilizations in the history of the world consider(ed) homosexuality to be undesirable. That is a fact.

 

Most major religions in the world consider homosexual activity immoral. The Bible declares homosexual behavior a sin.

 

Because of all the facts stated above, many people believe that homosexual behavior is "wrong." You obviously hold a different opinion. So that makes you right and everyone else with whom you disagree wrong? Could it be possible you are wrong?

 

Right or wrong, you have the right to your opinion and to express it. By the same token, people who believe homosexual activity is wrong for cultural, moral or religious reasons also have a right to their opinions and a right to openly express them without being called names or intimidated into silence by a vocal minority.

 

For the record, in this particular case, Ozzie didn't comment on "right" or "wrong". He just joked that his friend was a homosexual. His friend took no offense. What is so "insensitive" about that?

 

Some people just go around looking for a reason to be offended so they can push their agenda off on everyone else.

 

Finally, as others in this thread have pointed out, it is indeed interesting how out of all the media people present, nobody deemed this printworthy except two employees of the Tribune Company, at a time when the Sox are enjoying success and their Cubs are taking a beating on the field and in the public eye.

[Texsox]

If I am reading some of the pro Ozzie comments correctly, you would speak to your best friend and the rest of the world the same way, and everyone should just know how the remark was intended :headshake

 

Ozzie is the most visible face of the organization the most often quoted individual. When he is perceived by the general public as dissing gays, that's bad.

 

He didn't say, there's a really great guy. Or there's a fine family man, he clearly was making fun of the guy by calling him gay and/or a child molester. We can expand out from there that Ozzie obviously must think gay is not a good thing because he was making fun of him. Duh, it's an insult.

 

Kids, feel free to insult anyone and everyone you come into contact with in life. Make the world adjust to you. f*** those people that can't take a joke. You'll do just fine in the job market.

[Rowand44]

If I am reading some of the pro Ozzie comments correctly, you would speak to your best friend and the rest of the world the same way, and everyone should just know how the remark was intended  :headshake

 

Ozzie is the most visible face of the organization the most often quoted individual. When he is perceived by the general public as dissing gays, that's bad.

 

He didn't say, there's a really great guy. Or there's a fine family man, he clearly was making fun of the guy by calling him gay and/or a child molester. We can expand out from there that Ozzie obviously must think gay is not a good thing because he was making fun of him. Duh, it's an insult.

 

Kids, feel free to insult anyone and everyone you come into contact with in life. Make the world adjust to you. f*** those people that can't take a joke. You'll do just fine in the job market.

Tex, you've never called a friend gay before jokingly? I know I've ton it plenty of times, he was joking with one of his friends everyone does it. He didn't do anything wrong, the media is making something out of absolutely nothing.

[longshot7]

Homosexual activity is abnormal.  That is a fact.  If it weren't abnormal, at least fifty percent of humans and animals would routinely engage in homosexual acts.  In reality a very very small percentage do.

 

In addition to being abnormal, most societies and civilizations in the history of the world consider(ed) homosexuality to be undesirable.  That is a fact.

 

Most major religions in the world consider homosexual activity immoral.  The Bible declares homosexual behavior a sin.

 

Because of all the facts stated above, many people believe that homosexual behavior is "wrong."  You obviously hold a different opinion.  So that makes you right and everyone else with whom you disagree wrong?  Could it be possible you are wrong?

 

Right or wrong, you have the right to your opinion and to express it.  By the same token, people who believe homosexual activity is wrong for cultural, moral or religious reasons also have a right to their opinions and a right to openly express them without being called names or intimidated into silence by a vocal minority.

 

For the record, in this particular case, Ozzie didn't comment on "right" or "wrong".  He just joked that his friend was a homosexual.  His friend took no offense.  What is so "insensitive" about that?

 

Some people just go around looking for a reason to be offended so they can push their agenda off on everyone else.

 

Finally, as others in this thread have pointed out, it is indeed interesting how out of all the media people present, nobody deemed this printworthy except two employees of the Tribune Company, at a time when the Sox are enjoying success and their Cubs are taking a beating on the field and in the public eye.

 

 

What makes it abnormal or immoral? That you or other people don't agree with it? Left-handed people are in the minority - are they abnormal? Red-haired people are in the minority - are they abnormal?

 

Most societies and civilizations in the history of the world consider(ed) homosexuality to be undesirable? That is certainly not a fact. Any survey of ancient history can disprove this. Look at Ancient Greece and Rome - or pre-Christian Europe. For a man to have a male lover was considered a high status symbol.

 

"Most major religions in the world consider homosexual activity immoral. The Bible declares homosexual behavior a sin." The big three religions in the world (Christianity, Islam, and Judaism) are founded on the beliefs of the inferiority of women and the inequality of the sexes. The main root of homophobia is sexism - why else don't we want men acting like women? Because they're seen as inferior.

 

I respect your opinion, although I don't agree. At the end of the day, you'll either agree or disagree with what I've said - that's fine. But the major point (and how this relates to Ozzie) is this: Racism is wrong. Sexism is wrong. Religion-ism (I invented that term) is wrong. Classism is wrong. Heterosexism is wrong. Calling someone gay as an insult is the same thing as calling someone a racial slur.

[Flash Tizzle]

If I am reading some of the pro Ozzie comments correctly, you would speak to your best friend and the rest of the world the same way, and everyone should just know how the remark was intended

 

I wouldn't label myself in favor of Ozzie comments, however, I would (and have) greeted my friends similarly. Ozzie never intended for this comment to reach outside of his friend's ears. The Media should have known, as they were sitting there observing this, the comment was directed towards his friend and no one else.

 

Kids, feel free to insult anyone and everyone you come into contact with in life. Make the world adjust to you. f*** those people that can't take a joke. You'll do just fine in the job market.

 

Again, he said those comments to his friend. No need to whine about this. It's his fault for trusting the media to completey ignore his candid remarks. Now he knows. It's not going to change my perception of Ozzie Guillen or this organization.

 

I believe, as I've discussed earlier, this wasn't a case of a journalist being shocked with an Ozzie Guillen comment. It was two Tribune employees printing garbage in hopes of shifting positive attention from our team. Too much of a coincident to ignore.

Edited August 11, 2005 by Flash Tizzle

[bighurt2719]

theres only one reason that morrisey would get so offended...he must be packing fudge. your secret is out morrisey!!

Edited August 11, 2005 by bighurt2719

[UC76]

I try not to get caught up in the Trib-hates-the-Sox stuff. However, this is crapola that Newsday and the Trib are the only two news outlets that ran with this. Maybe the honchos at the Trib are getting a little worried about the sellouts at the Cell while the Cubs disappear from contention. So why not toss in some negative Sox stories to deflect from their success.

 

Pathetic.

 

The article should never have been written. Morrissey blows.

 

And Mariotti was on Around the Horn saying Ozzie should be suspended for two weeks. Mariotti is another tool. Does anyone even care what he thinks?

[Rex Kickass]

Ummm, Ozzie needs to be not stupid and not do stuff like that in front of the press.

 

This isn't boys will be boys, he's in his 40s. And he said something stupid in public. He's getting called on it. That's what happens when you say stupid s*** in public.

 

I like Ozzie. I don't think he's a homophobe. I do think he should be careful about what he says. Is this being blown outta proportion? Yes. Is the reporter wrong? No.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

Look at Ancient Greece and Rome - or pre-Christian Europe.  For a man to have a male lover was considered a high status symbol.

 

Kings married Queens. Princes married Princesses. Counts married Countesses. Barons married Baronesses, etc. I'm sure there may be cases of homosexuals in history somewhere who believed having another homosexual lover was some kind of status symbol, but again that was not the norm. Some people in pre-civil war USA thought holding slaves was some sort of status symbol. The fact remains that the vast majority of people never held slaves, and no matter what slaveholders thought about status symbols, the slave trade was still wrong.

 

The big three religions in the world (Christianity, Islam, and Judaism) are founded on the beliefs of the inferiority of women and the inequality of the sexes.

While I can't speak for Islam, I can state with certainty that Judaism and Christianity are not founded on the beliefs of the inferiority of women and inequality of the sexes. These religions are based on the sovereignty of God and the deliverance of His people through his Grace and mercy. While the Bible states that male and female may have different roles in some earthly matters, it stresses that all are equal before the Lord.

 

I respect your opinion, although I don't agree.  At the end of the day, you'll either agree or disagree with what I've said - that's fine.

 

And I respect your right to your opinion, although I don't agree with it.

 

  Calling someone gay as an insult is the same thing as calling someone a racial slur.

 

Calling anyone anything as an insult is wrong. Although I'm sure we are all guilty at some point, the act of insulting is always wrong. But I wouldn't equate calling someone gay in a disapproving manner the same as using a racial slur. I would liken it more to someone calling an alcoholic a "drunk" in an unkind way.

[SnB]

Tex, you've never called a friend gay before jokingly?  I know I've ton it plenty of times, he was joking with one of his friends everyone does it.  He didn't do anything wrong, the media is making something out of absolutely nothing.

yes, it's a normal thing for friends to say amongst friends, but not when the media is present. Ozzie is the leader of a major league ballclub and he has to think about what he says, he still hasn't learned this.

[The Ginger Kid]

Homosexual activity is abnormal.  That is a fact. 

 

In addition to being abnormal, most societies and civilizations in the history of the world consider(ed) homosexuality to be undesirable.  That is a fact.

 

Most major religions in the world consider homosexual activity immoral. 

 

Because of all the facts stated above, many people believe that homosexual behavior is "wrong." 

 

 

You throwing around the word "fact" like some sort of right wing nut job standing on the pulpit makes me :puke

 

Abnormal? That's your opinion. Major religions? Name three. Why don't you push this agenda on some GOP board instead of here. This kind of intolerance and the need to toss around bogus "facts" and labels like "abnormal" makes me double :puke :puke

[Kogs35]

I try not to get caught up in the Trib-hates-the-Sox stuff. However, this is crapola that Newsday and the Trib are the only two news outlets that ran with this. Maybe the honchos at the Trib are getting a little worried about the sellouts at the Cell while the Cubs disappear from contention. So why not toss in some negative Sox stories to deflect from their success.

 

Pathetic.

 

The article should never have been written. Morrissey blows.

 

And Mariotti was on Around the Horn saying Ozzie should be suspended for two weeks. Mariotti is another tool. Does anyone even care what he thinks?

 

no no1 cares about marryoti. hes too busy kissing espn's ass to get on tv from ny or dc so he cant get out this town. he a ass clown and people dance the day when jay marry-oti leaves chicago

[South Side Fireworks Man]

Morrissey blows.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

And Mariotti was on Around the Horn saying Ozzie should be suspended for two weeks. Mariotti is another tool. Does anyone even care what he thinks?

See, now this is my point. It's getting to the point where if anyone says anything referring to homosexuality that's not in a clearly positive and supportive context, people in the media want to intimidate them into silence.

 

Why should Ozzie be suspended? Ozzie didn't insult anyone. He called his friend a homosexual. His friend wasn't offended, why should anyone else be?

 

I don't know what Ozzie's views are on homosexuals, and I don't care. But apparently, if Mariotti even suspects that Ozzie's views don't line up exactly with his own, he should be suspended.

[sti3]

as much as i loathe him and his scrubs, i didn't think dusty should have been pilloried for his "blacks play better in the sun" remarks and I don't think ozzie should be reprimanded for this. Yes, i'd like a little more professionalism in the future, but i really couldn't care less. I am as liberal as they come and get very worked up over gay rights, but I also call my friends "homo" as a dumb joke like any other guy. I don't see a contradiction.

Edited August 12, 2005 by sti3

[South Side Fireworks Man]

You throwing around the word "fact" like some sort of right wing nut job standing on the pulpit makes me  :puke

Did I strike a nerve? Do you have to resort to name calling?

 

It is a fact that homosexual behavior is not the norm, it is a fact that it has been frowned upon by societies around the world, and it is a fact that religions consider it a sin.

 

Abnormal? That's your opinion. Major religions? Name three. Why don't you push this agenda on some GOP board instead of here. This kind of intolerance and the need to toss around bogus "facts" and labels like "abnormal" makes me double  :puke  :puke

You are the one who is being intolerant. I didn't start this conversation. I responded to another person's post in a civil manner. While that person disagrees with me, that person responded in a civil manner. No names were called, except by you.

 

I'm not pushing an agenda here. But apparenty no one who disagrees with your agenda should be allowed to post here if you had your way.

[The Ginger Kid]

Did I strike a nerve?  Do you have to resort to name calling? 

 

It is a fact that homosexual behavior is not the norm, it is a fact that it has been frowned upon by societies around the world, and it is a fact that religions consider it a sin.

 

 

You are the one who is being intolerant.  I didn't start this conversation.  I responded to another person's post in a civil manner.  While that person disagrees with me, that person responded in a civil manner.  No names were called, except by you.

 

I'm not pushing an agenda here.  But apparenty no one who disagrees with your agenda should be allowed to post here if you had your way.

 

:puke

[3 BeWareTheNewSox 5]

Talk about idiots on ATH

 

Anyways, as much as the gay community is always craving for attention, words like 'f**' or 'queer' have other meanings, such as 'loser' in today's society, especially for friends and teens. I can see how a homosexual would be offended by that, but

 

A. When I say it jokingly to my friends or as it was used in this case, I don't even think homosexuals, it's just words that have had replaced meanings. Kind of like when you say 'that's sick' with positive connotations, not the best example, but the closest I can think of. But the guy is Ozzie's friend, so the connotations, if bad, are obviously playful. It's not like Magglio was in the crowd and he said "Get out of here you homosexual".

 

B. I know this is a stretch, but What if the guy was a homosexual and/or a child molester? Then you can't be offended

 

This is bs though, like these reporters have never been in a locker room. Do you mean to tell me no one has ever used these words without yelling 'off the record!' first.

 

When he delivered those words, he said he was being playful with a friend of 20 years, a friend who took no offense.

 

The pregame press gathering with Guillen had just ended, and he thought he was done being quoted.

 

Then why did you print it? The friend took no offense, he was talking to his friend, it sounds like Morrisey should mind his own business and STFU.

[Balta1701]

When I was an undergrad, I used the word "f**" to insult a person that I knew from home who I absolutely despised. I did so with an acutal gay friend of mine sitting across the table from me. I apologized profusely once I said it (it seriously just kinda slipped out) and we just let it be. As far as I could tell, he understood that I had no ill intent, and it wasn't spoken of again.

 

I don't see a huge deal here. If that's the worst thing that's said on a baseball field or in a locker room, i'll be amazed.

[FlaSoxxJim]

It is a fact that homosexual behavior is not the norm, it is a fact that it has been frowned upon by societies around the world, and it is a fact that religions consider it a sin.

 

Homosexuality is normal, although it is not normative. Longshot's noting of lefties and redheads demonstrates the problem with your 50%=normal threshold, as would genius-level IQ, being very tall or very short, etc. All of those traits may fall out toward the edges of theor respective attribute bell curves, but they are nonetheless traits that can be readily encountered within the population at large.

 

As for religion, some condemn hemosexuality while others do not. There is certainly no hard and fast rule to affirm that homosexuality is a sin according to all religions. This week in Orlando, one of the largest Lutheran conventions is going to be busy debating whether gay churchmembers should be ordained. Hopefully the vote goes that way if it comes to a vote.

 

Your comment about slave ownership is instructive here. Owning slaves was something that was considered acceptable 200 years ago but today we can clearly see it is unjust and immoral. Hopefully it will not be too many generations from now when the majority of people see that condemnation of others based on sexuality is similarly unjust.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Homosexuality is normal

 

Has that been proven?

 

And I'm asking out of curiosity since I'm uninformed on the subject.

 

Would you know of where I can read up on that? Thanks in advance.

[BigSqwert]

Homosexuality is normal, although it is not normative.  Longshot's noting of lefties and redheads demonstrates the problem with your 50%=normal threshold, as would genius-level IQ, being very tall or very short, etc.  All of those traits may fall out toward the edges of theor respective attribute bell curves, but they are nonetheless traits that can be readily encountered within the population at large.

 

As for religion, some condemn hemosexuality while others do not.  There is certainly no hard and fast rule to affirm that homosexuality is a sin according to all religions.  This week in Orlando, one of the largest Lutheran conventions is going to be busy debating whether gay churchmembers should be ordained.  Hopefully the vote goes that way if it comes to a vote.

 

Your comment about slave ownership is instructive here.  Owning slaves was something that was considered acceptable 200 years ago but today we can clearly see it is unjust and immoral.  Hopefully it will not be too many generations from now when the majority of people see that condemnation of others based on sexuality is similarly unjust.

[3 BeWareTheNewSox 5]

My conclusion after my posts and a day to digest on this. The media hates the Sox and still can not being themselves to admit how good they are, so they use this story, spread it nationally, and have this be the top story after taking 2 out of 3 in NY. I'm offended when Dusty Baker says blacks can take heat more than I can, but it can't work that way.

 

Lowell does the hidden ball trick in a lopsided game and the nation claims him a genius, Uribe successfully dekes Derek Lee to the point where it saves a run and Juan Uribe is now bush league and one of the dirtiest players in baseball. The media and Chicago hate the White Sox and WE WILL STICK IT UP ALL THEIR ASSES COME OCTOBER (how about that for homosexual connotations Morrisey)