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Grossman's Season Basically Over


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QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Aug 13, 2005 -> 01:37 PM)
It was funny watching Ditka saying that the Bears need to cut their losses because Quasim Mitchell can't block the left side at all. And then he went on to saying, "If I were the coach, he wouldn't be on this team, that's for sure." He ripped him more, but I just remember those two parts in particular.

 

Yeah, that was pretty funny. One play Kitner got sacked and da coach just said "that left tackle cant block". He tells it like it is. IIRC he was also blasting Quasim last year during the preseason too.

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QUOTE(DukeNukeEm @ Aug 13, 2005 -> 10:12 PM)
Angelo isnt the guy who finds these dudes in the late rounds.  It's Greg Gabriel, our director of college scouting (he's my nomination for new GM at the end of the season).

Ya Angelo really doesn't do anything :rolly

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I think we can still be competetive with Hutchinson as our QB. Yes he isnt that good but unlike Krenzel and Quinn he can move the ball some. The key to the season is keeping the defense healthy... If everyone on defense stays healthy especially azumah once he returns than im not ready to give up on the season.

 

With our defense we can score 14 points a game and still win and with our improved O-Line, running game, and WR's I think our offense can do that. Hopefully with Benson and Jones running it takes a lot of time off the clock and gives our defense a rest which i believe if given a fair rest not on the field 80% they can be the most dominant defense maybe next to baltimore. And its not like baltimore is good offensively either and they have been pretty good.

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QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Aug 14, 2005 -> 08:19 PM)
I think we can still be competetive with Hutchinson as our QB.  Yes he isnt that good but unlike Krenzel and Quinn he can move the ball some.  The key to the season is keeping the defense healthy... If everyone on defense stays healthy especially azumah once he returns than im not ready to give up on the season.

 

With our defense we can score 14 points a game and still win and with our improved O-Line, running game, and WR's I think our offense can do that.  Hopefully with Benson and Jones running it takes a lot of time off the clock and gives our defense a rest which i believe if given a fair rest not on the field 80% they can be the most dominant defense maybe next to baltimore.  And its not like baltimore is good offensively either and they have been pretty good.

The difference is Baltimore's defense is probably just a little better than Chicago (watch me get crucified here), plus the Ravens have had a real damn good running game over the years. Just saying it shows how important it is to get Benson in camp, get him to run effectively with that power runnin that Ron Turner wants, to take time off the clock and the pressure of Chad Hutchison. You don't Chad Hutchison to win the game for you, they only need him to manage it. Can he do it? Not without damn good protection he can't.

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QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Aug 14, 2005 -> 08:21 AM)
The difference is Baltimore's defense is probably just a little better than Chicago (watch me get crucified here), plus the Ravens have had a real damn good running game over the years. Just saying it shows how important it is to get Benson in camp, get him to run effectively with that power runnin that Ron Turner wants, to take time off the clock and the pressure of Chad Hutchison. You don't Chad Hutchison to win the game for you, they only need him to manage it. Can he do it? Not without damn good protection he can't.

I'll let someone else have the honors. I am 100% sure the Bears will have the best D in the NFL this year barring injuries.

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QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Aug 14, 2005 -> 12:32 PM)
I'll let someone else have the honors. I am 100% sure the Bears will have the best D in the NFL this year barring injuries.

 

I dont know about that. There are no holes in the Baltimore defense. I am a Bears fan and I love our D but you cant tell me you are absolutely content with our secondary.

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QUOTE(chimpy2121 @ Aug 14, 2005 -> 01:52 PM)
I dont know about that. There are no holes in the Baltimore defense. I am a Bears fan and I love our D but you cant tell me you are absolutely content with our secondary.

When Zoom is healthy, hell yeah I am. The D-Line is fabulous with Brown, Scott/Tank, Harris, and Waly. The LB are CLEARLY set with Briggs, Urlacher, and Hillenmeyer or whoever wins the job. And when healthy, Tillman, Zoom, Brown, and Green with Vasher the Ball-Hawk as the nickel back are awesome....book it.

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QUOTE(chimpy2121 @ Aug 14, 2005 -> 12:52 PM)
I dont know about that. There are no holes in the Baltimore defense. I am a Bears fan and I love our D but you cant tell me you are absolutely content with our secondary.

^

 

Chicago=top 3 for sure though

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Until I see Tillman, Vasher and Zumah do it in the regular season, I will have my doubts on the secondary. I love the talent of Tillman and Vasher, but Tillman was lousy last year (he's looking better this year) and I want to see how Vasher does his 2nd year.

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QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Aug 14, 2005 -> 02:15 PM)
Until I see Tillman, Vasher and Zumah do it in the regular season, I will have my doubts on the secondary.  I love the talent of Tillman and Vasher, but Tillman was lousy last year (he's looking better this year) and I want to see how Vasher does his 2nd year.

Tillman was injured most of last year. How was he lousy?

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I have questions about the Bears Secondary as well. Tillman basically got a pass last year because of his injury and his ownage of Randy Moss. I still question him though. Vasher looked pretty good, but I don't know if he's a #3CB, especially against the likes of Mike Williams, Marcus Robinson, and Donald Driver.

 

I don't see the Bears getting a top 3 pick. They'll win some games. I think they'll end up with #7.

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I should add, I'll throw up if they had a #1 overall selection. This offseason the Bears need to target a QB via free agency. I know they may be tight on caproom, but if that happens to be Drew Brees, than so be it.

 

Find a way. This defense is too good to sit around and wait for a QB to develop. The time is now and the Bears are going to need to build a decent offense around some of this defense and start doing it now.

 

Now if Hutch and Orton or even Grossman do well and lead the Bears to the playoffs this year, than I'll have less of an issue with that.

 

Regardless, I'm not a proponent of drafting a QB 1st overall...now I'd consider it if they had a latter pick and things were looking alright and my mind could change a year from now, but I want to see a legit qb brought in if things don't work out well for the Bears.

 

I love the potential of the entire defense and its at a point where the Bears won't be able to afford to wait for a guy like Leinart to go through his ups and downs (plus he's gonna be gone #1 overall if he stays healthy all year) and there is no way in hell the Bears are going to be the worse team in the league. NONE.

 

In fact, I still think the Bears are right in the thick of the playoff race and I've said this a few times now. They are a better team than they were last year. They didn't have Rex last year and they don't have him this year. The difference is this year you at least have Hutchinson will a full year of training camp, you have a better system, a better line, a better RB core, a better receiving core and the same horrid ass TE core (unless Clark can stay healthy and stop fumbling the darn ball).

 

Fact of the matter is with or without Rex, this offense is quite a few notches better than last years offense and I'm convinced this years defense is better. Although I do think they are very thin in the CB area and could be in deep crap if Vasher/Tillman/Zoom go out for an extended period of time (I've yet to see enough of the backups to show me they would be able to even come in and do anything remotely decent).

 

I am starting to dig Wilson, seems to find his way into plays thus far in the preseason (THE LB). Right now I'm finally watching the 2nd exhibition game.

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QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Aug 14, 2005 -> 05:32 PM)
I'll let someone else have the honors. I am 100% sure the Bears will have the best D in the NFL this year barring injuries.

 

The Bears could never, ever begin to approach the Elite 4.

 

New England

Jacksonville

Buffalo

Carolina

 

Let's take a look at this more closely. I will only list players who are above average (aka solid) or better. If you're merely adequate, you represent a hole as far as I'm concerned.

 

First off, one of the deepest defensive squads in the history of the NFL:

 

New England

FS: Eugene Wilson (All-Pro Caliber)

SS: Rodney Harrison (All-Pro Caliber)

CB: Duane Starks (Solid), Randall Gay (Solid)

CB: Asante Samuel (Solid), Tyrone Poole (Solid)

OLB: Willie McGinnest (Solid), Rosey Colvin (Solid)

ILB: Ted Johnson (Solid)

ILB: Chad Brown (Solid), Monty Beisel (Solid)

OLB: Mike Vrabel (All-Pro Caliber)

DE: Richard Seymour (All-Pro Caliber)

DT: Vince Wilfork (All-Pro Caliber)

DE: Ty Warren (All-Pro Caliber), Jarvis Green (Solid)

 

I'm counting 16 guys who are solid (aka above average) or better. There is not one hole on this defense.

 

It's New England, and then the following 3 teams:

 

Jacksonville

FS: Deon Grant (Solid)

SS: Donovan Darius (All-Pro Caliber)

CB: Rashean Mathis (All-Pro Caliber)

CB: Kiwaukee Thomas (Solid)

OLB: Akin Oyodele (Solid)

MLB: Mike Peterson (All-Pro Caliber)

OLB: Daryl Smith (Solid), Greg Favors (Solid)

DE: Paul Spicer (Solid)

DT: Marcus Stroud (All-Pro Caliber), Tony Williams (Solid)

DT: John Henderson (All-Pro Caliber), Rob Meier (Solid)

DE: Reggie Hayward (All-Pro Caliber), Bobby McCray (Solid)

 

Buffalo

FS: Troy Vincent (Solid)

SS: Lawyer Milloy (All-Pro Caliber)

CB: Nate Clements (All-Pro Caliber)

CB: Terrence McGee (Solid)

OLB: Jeff Posey (Solid)

MLB: London Fletcher (Solid)

OLB: Takeo Spikes (All-Pro Caliber)

DE: Chris Kelsay (All-Pro Caliber)

DT: HOLE

DT: Sam Adams (All-Pro Caliber)

DE: Aaron Schobel (All-Pro Caliber)

 

Carolina

FS: HOLE

SS: Mike Minter (Solid)

CB: Ken Lucas (Solid), Ricky Manning (Solid)

CB: Chris Gamble (Solid)

OLB: Thomas Davis (Solid)

MLB: Dan Morgan (All-Pro Caliber)

OLB: Will Witherspoon (Solid)

DE: Julius Peppers (All-Pro Caliber)

DT: Brentson Buckner (Solid)

DT: Kris Jenkins (All-Pro Caliber)

DE: Mike Rucker (All-Pro Caliber)

 

 

Now that we have the elite 4 out of the way, we have the teams ranked 5 through 13 IMO in no particular order because it's too tough to call at this point. Those teams:

 

Chicago

Pittsburgh

Philadelphia

Baltimore

Denver

Dallas

Washington

Tampa Bay

San Diego

 

Now, let's take a closer look. As I have said, I won't even attempt to put these teams in any particular order. I'll also have a 14-22 bracket for teams that are middle-of-the-road. Some might wonder why I don't have the NY Jets or Atlanta in the Top 13, but I'll go on to explain later. They'd round out the Top 15 IMO.

 

Chicago

FS: Mike Green (Solid)

SS: Mike Brown (All-Pro Caliber)

CB: Charles Tillman (Solid)

CB: HOLE

OLB: Lance Briggs (Solid)

MLB: Brian Urlacher (All-Pro Caliber)

OLB: HOLE

DE: Alex Brown (Solid)

DT: HOLE

DT: Tommie Harris (All-Pro Caliber)

DE: Adawale Ogunleye (All-Pro Caliber)

 

Now, scroll back up real quick and compare the elite 4 with the Bears. We just can't f*** with those teams.

 

Philadelphia

FS: Brian Dawkins (All-Pro Caliber)

SS: Mike Lewis (All-Pro Caliber)

CB: Sheldon Brown (All-Pro Caliber)

CB: Lito Shepherd (Solid)

OLB: HOLE

MLB: Jeremiah Trotter (Solid)

OLB: HOLE

DE: Jevon Kearse (All-Pro Caliber)

DT: HOLE

DT: Corey Simon (All-Pro Caliber)

DE: HOLE

 

Pittsburgh

FS: Chris Hope (Solid)

SS: Troy Polamalu (All-Pro Caliber)

CB: Deshea Townsend (Solid)

CB: HOLE

OLB: Joey Porter (All-Pro Caliber)

ILB: James Farrior (All-Pro Caliber)

ILB: HOLE

OLB: HOLE

DE: Kimo Von Oelhoffen (Solid)

DT: Casey Hampton (All-Pro Caliber)

DE: Aaron Smith (All-Pro Caliber)

 

Baltimore

FS: Ed Reed (All-Pro Caliber)

SS: HOLE

CB: Chris McAllister (All-Pro Caliber)

CB: Samari Rolle (Solid)

OLB: Adalius Thomas (All-Pro Caliber)

MLB: Ray Lewis (All-Pro Caliber)

OLB: HOLE

DE: Terrell Suggs (All-Pro Caliber)

DT: HOLE

DT: HOLE

DE: Anthony Weaver (Solid)

 

Tampa Bay

FS: HOLE

SS: Jermaine Phillips (Solid)

CB: Brian Kelly (All-Pro Caliber)

CB: Ronde Barber (All-Pro Caliber)

OLB: HOLE

MLB: Sheldon Quarles (Solid)

OLB: Derrick Brooks (All-Pro Caliber)

DE: Greg Spires (All-Pro Caliber)

DT: Anthony McFarland (All-Pro Caliber)

DT: Chris Hovan (Solid), Ellis Wyms (Solid)

DE: Simeon Rice (All-Pro Caliber), Dewayne White (Solid)

 

Dallas

FS: HOLE

SS: Roy Williams (All-Pro Caliber)

CB: Terrence Newman (Solid), Aaron Glenn (Solid)

CB: Anthony Henry (Solid)

OLB: HOLE

MLB: Dat Nguyen (Solid)

OLB: HOLE

DE: Greg Ellis (Solid)

DT: Laroi Glover (All-Pro Caliber)

DT: Jason Ferguson (Solid)

DE: Demarcus Ware (Solid), Marcus Spears (Solid)

 

Washington

FS: Sean Taylor (All-Pro Caliber)

SS: HOLE

CB: Shawn Springs (Solid)

CB: Walt Harris (Solid, Carlos Rogers (Solid)

OLB: Lavar Arrington (All-Pro Caliber)

MLB: Lemar Marshall (Solid)

OLB: Marcus Washington (All-Pro Caliber)

DE: Renaldo Wynn (Solid)

DT: Brandon Noble (Solid)

DT: Cornelius Griffin (Solid)

DE: HOLE

 

Denver

FS: John Lynch (Solid)

SS: HOLE

CB: Champ Bailey (All-Pro Caliber)

CB: HOLE

OLB: DJ Williams (All-Pro Caliber)

MLB: Al Wilson (All-Pro Caliber)

OLB: Ian Gold (Solid)

DE: Trevor Pryce (All-Pro Caliber), Ebenezer Ekuban (Solid)

DT: Gerard Warren (Solid)

DT: Monsanto Pope (Solid)

DE: Courtney Brown (Solid)

 

San Diego

FS: Bhawoh Jue (Solid)

SS: Terrence Kiel (Solid)

CB: Quentin Jammer (Solid)

CB: Drayton Florence (Solid)

OLB: Shawne Merriman (Solid)

ILB: Randall Godfrey (Solid)

ILB: Donnie Edwards (All-Pro Caliber)

OLB: Steve Foley (All-Pro Caliber)

DE: HOLE

DT: Jamal Williams (All-Pro Caliber)

DE: Igor Olshansky (Solid)

 

 

Now, here are the teams I have in the 14-22 bracket, in no particular order with the exception of the Top 2 in Atlanta and the NY Jets (the teams rounding out the Top 15)

 

Atlanta

FS: Bryan Scott (Solid)

SS: HOLE

CB: DeAngelo Hall (All-Pro Caliber)

CB: HOLE

OLB: Demorrio Williams (Solid), Ike Reese (Solid)

MLB: Ed Hartwell (All-Pro Caliber)

OLB: Keith Brooking (All-Pro Caliber)

DE: Patrick Kerney (All-Pro Caliber)

DT: Rod Coleman (All-Pro Caliber)

DT: HOLE

DE: Brady Smith (Solid)

 

New York Jets

FS: Erik Coleman (Solid)

SS: HOLE

CB: Ty Law (All-Pro Caliber)

CB: David Barnett (Solid)

OLB: HOLE

MLB: Jonathan Vilma (All-Pro Caliber)

OLB: HOLE

DE: Shaun Ellis (All-Pro Caliber)

DT: Dewayne Robertson (All-Pro Caliber)

DT: HOLE

DE: John Abraham (All-Pro Caliber)

 

Minnesota

FS: Darren Sharper (All-Pro Caliber)

SS: Corey Chavous (Solid)

CB: Antoine Winfield (All-Pro Caliber)

CB: Fred Smoot (All-Pro Caliber), Brian Williams (Solid)

OLB: HOLE

MLB: HOLE

OLB: HOLE

DE: Kenechi Udeze (Solid), Lance Johnstone (Solid)

DT: Kevin Williams (All-Pro Caliber)

DT: Pat Williams (All-Pro Caliber)

DE: Erasmus Jones (Solid)

 

Tennessee

FS: Lamont Thompson (Solid)

SS: Tank Williams (All-Pro Caliber)

CB: Andre Woolfolk (Solid)

CB: Pacman Jones (Solid)

OLB: Peter Sirmon (Solid), Rocky Boiman (Solid)

MLB: Brad Kassell (Solid), Rocky Calmus (Solid)

OLB: Keith Bullock (All-Pro Caliber)

DE: HOLE

DT: Albert Haynesworth (All-Pro Caliber)

DT: Rien Long (Solid), Randy Starks (Solid)

DE: HOLE

 

Cleveland

FS: Brian Russell (Solid), Brodney Pool (Solid)

SS: Sean Jones (Solid)

CB: Gary Baxter (Solid)

CB Daylon McCutcheon (Solid)

OLB: Matt Stewart (Solid)

ILB: Andra Davis (All-Pro Caliber)

ILB: HOLE

OLB: Chaun Thompson (Solid)

DE: Orpheus Roye (Solid)

DT: Jason Fisk (Solid)

DE: Alvin McKinley (Solid), Kenard Lang (Solid)

 

New York Giants

FS: Gibril Wilson (Solid)

SS: HOLE

CB: Will Allen (Solid)

CB: Will Peterson (Solid)

OLB: Carlos Emmons (Solid)

MLB: Antonio Pierce (Solid)

OLB: HOLE

DE: Michael Strahan (All-Pro Caliber)

DT: Will Joseph (Solid)

DT: Fred Robbins (Solid)

DE: Osi Unemenyiora (Solid)

 

Houston

FS: Marcus Coleman (Solid)

SS: HOLE

CB: Phillip Buchanan (Solid)

CB: Dunta Robinson (All-Pro Caliber)

OLB: HOLE

ILB: Kailee Wong (Solid)

ILB: Morlon Greenwood (Solid)

OLB: HOLE

DE: Gary Walker (Solid), Travis Johnson (Solid)

DT: Seth Payne (Solid)

DE: Robaire Smith (Solid)

 

Arizona

FS: Robert Friffith (Solid)

SS: Adrian Wilson (Solid)

CB: Antrel Rolle (Solid)

CB: HOLE

OLB: Karlos Dansby (Solid)

MLB: HOLE

OLB: Orlando Huff (Solid), James Darling (Solid)

DE: Chike Okeafor (Solid)

DT: Russell Davis (Solid)

DT: Darnell Dockett (Solid)

DE: Bertrand Barry (All-Pro Caliber)

 

St. Louis

FS: HOLE

SS: Adam Archuletta (Solid)

CB: Jerametrius Butler (Solid)

CB: Travis Fisher (Solid)

OLB: Dexter Coakley (Solid)

MLB: Chris Claiborne (Solid)

OLB: Pisa Tinoisomua (Solid)

DE: Leonard Little (All-Pro Caliber)

DT: Ryan Pickett (Solid)

DT: Jimmy Kennedy (Solid)

DE: HOLE

 

 

And now, I present to you the absolute worst defensive teams in the NFL. Miami and Cincinatti would be the best of the worst.

 

Miami

FS: HOLE

SS: HOLE

CB: Sam Madison (All-Pro Caliber)

CB: HOLE

OLB: Junior Seau (Solid)

MLB: Zach Thomas (Solid)

OLB: HOLE

DE: Kevin Carter (Solid), Vonnie Holliday (Solid)

DT: Tim Bowens (Solid)

DT: Larry Chester (Solid)

DE: Jason Taylor (All-Pro Caliber)

 

Cincinatti

FS: Madieu Williams (Solid)

SS: HOLE

CB: Tory James (All-Pro Caliber)

CB: Keiwan Ratliff (Solid)

OLB: HOLE

MLB: HOLE

OLB: Brian Simmons (Solid)

DE: Duane Clemons (Solid), Robert Geathers (Solid)

DT: John Thornton (Solid)

DT: HOLE

DE: Justin Smith (All-Pro Caliber)

 

Detroit

FS: HOLE

SS: Kenoy Kennedy (Solid)

CB: Fernando Bryant (Solid)

CB: Dre Bly (Solid)

OLB: Boss Bailey (Solid)

MLB: HOLE

OLB: HOLE

DE: HOLE

DT: Marcus Bell (Solid)

DT: Shaun Rogers (All-Pro Caliber)

DE: James Hall (Solid)

 

Oakland

FS: HOLE

SS: HOLE

CB: Charles Woodson (All-Pro Caliber)

CB: HOLE

OLB: HOLE

MLB: Danny Clark (Solid)

OLB: Travian Smith (Solid)

DE: Bobby Hamilton (Solid)

DT: Warren Sapp (Solid)

DT: Ted Washington (Solid)

DE: Tyler Brayton (Solid), Derrick Burgess (Solid)

 

Indianapolis

FS: Bob Sanders (Solid)

SS: Mike Doss (Solid)

CB: Marlin Jackson (Solid)

CB: HOLE

OLB: David Thornton (Solid)

MLB: HOLE

OLB: HOLE

DE: Robert Mathis (Solid)

DT: Montae Reagor (Solid)

DT: HOLE

DE: Dwight Freeney (All-Pro Caliber)

 

New Orleans

FS: Dwight Smith (Solid)

SS: Jay Bellamy (Solid)

CB: Mike McKenzie (Solid)

CB: Jason Craft (Solid)

OLB: HOLE

MLB: HOLE

OLB: HOLE

DE: Charles Grant (All-Pro Caliber)

DT: HOLE

DT: HOLE

DE: Darren Howard (All-Pro Caliber), Will Smith (Solid)

 

Seattle

FS: Ken Hamlin (Solid)

SS: Michael Boulware (Solid)

CB: Marcus Trufant (All-Pro Caliber)

CB: Andre Dyson (Solid)

OLB: Jamie Sharper (Solid)

MLB: HOLE

OLB: HOLE

DE: HOLE

DT: HOLE

DT: Marcus Stubbs (Solid)

DE: Grant Wistrom (Solid)

 

San Francisco

FS: HOLE

SS: Tony Parrish (Solid)

CB: HOLE

CB: HOLE

OLB: Julian Peterson (All-Pro Caliber)

ILB: Derek Smith (Solid)

ILB: Jeff Ulbrich (Solid), Jamie Winborn (Solid)

OLB: Andre Carter (Solid)

DE: HOLE

DT: HOLE

DE: Marques Douglas (Solid)

 

Kansas City

FS: HOLE

SS: HOLE

CB: Patrick Surtain (All-Pro Caliber)

CB: Erik Warfield (Solid)

OLB: Derrick Johnson (Solid)

MLB: Shawn Barber (Solid)

OLB: Kendrell Bell (All-Pro Caliber)

DE: HOLE

DT: HOLE

DT: Lional Dalton (Solid)

DE: Jared Allen (Solid)

 

Green Bay

FS: HOLE

SS: HOLE

CB: Al Harris (Solid)

CB: HOLE

OLB: Nail Diggs (Solid)

MLB: Nick Barnett (All-Pro Caliber)

OLB: HOLE

DE: Aaron Kampman (Solid)

DT: Grady Jackson (Solid)

DT: HOLE

DE: Kabaar Biamila (Solid)

 

 

 

Sorry for the long post. Can you tell that I'm in football mode? :D

Edited by hammerhead johnson
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Our defense is all promise.

 

We have 3 playesr who have established themselves as top tier players, Brown, Wally and Urlacher.

 

Briggs is on the verge of being in the TKO, Bulluck club. He is that good.

 

Tillman, Harris and Brown all have the talent to be All-Pro's, but in all honesty, they all might not pan out.

 

If everybody plays to thier potential and the defense runs like it can, theres no reason we cannot lead the league in sacks, turnovers and pts allowed. Problem is: Everybody has to hit thier stride this year and play like they can.

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