White Sox vs Red Sox - 8/13/05

[Dick Allen]

These fans are idiots, they don't call em the Red Flubs for nothin...

I went to Fenway a couple of years ago. These people actually watch the games.

[quickman]

Maybe the White Sox should just stick to drafting OF'ers, 'cause it seems like that's the only thing they do well.

 

Carlos Lee and Maggs Ordonez (both minor league FA findings), Aaron Rowand, Jeremy Reed (whose having a decent -- not great -- rookie season), and hopefully Sweeney, Anderson, and Young.

 

Then, after you've completed the draft of 50 OFers, trade the ones that succeed for pitching. 

 

 

actaully not a bad idea!

[CYGarland]

These fans are idiots, they don't call em the Red Flubs for nothin...

you are correct sir. Game over. :puke

[fathom]

Surprised we didn't ph for Crede that inning. Blum sure has been a disaster so far.

[CYGarland]

Let's hope El Duque has his A game tomorrow. If we get swept, i am going to be VERY

[Dick Allen]

This game was a loss. Last night the White Sox should have won.

[quickman]

That's some real s***ty scouting report, because it's awfully stupid to judge a guy off of eight IP.  I'm not saying Bajenaru is the second coming of Gagne, but I think he can be a decent bullpen arm.

Which is why he put up a 115 OPS+ (or so) last year?

 

 

again you call me stupid, again you defend players who either have not made it or are fringe players. I really don't understand. If Gload is so great he would be here or starting for another team. He is a back up and will remain that way. So far again I am right and its been the truth. Baj won't make it, they called up jenks and Adkins despite the great BAJ numbers. He barely pitched in spring training therfore I can only conclude he doesn't have the game for the majors. I know you love the minor league players, but they are just not that good.

 

Lets drop this for now because you and I do not see eye to eye and I am actaully not trying to convince you because I know where I stand and its been that way for some time. I really don't care if others are in agreement with me or not. So far the guys you like have not made it. When they do and if they do on a consistant basis I would love to share some board time with you. there will be call ups in two weeks i hope the players that come will be successfull because I want the sox to win, but september callups mean nothing long term.

[southsideirish71]

Well does everyone remember the Ozzie "you dont play the game the right way you dont play with me speech" where he said if you dont run out a fly ball or play solid you will be on the bench no matter who you are.

 

Meanwhile, Uribe tries to park every single pitch into the seats. Ozuna kicks the ball all over. And now in the OF decides to give up on a ball that he thinks is foul yet is fair.

 

If he was a man of his word he would of marched out and removed Ozuna. Then of course we pan to Ozuna and Rowand and Ozuna is laughing about it.

 

HA HA HA I FOCKED UP AGAIN. HA HA HA

[quickman]

t-bay winning 7-1 we are winning the division despite the lousy play.

[fathom]

t-bay winning 7-1 we are winning the division despite the lousy play.

 

I don't give a s***, as long as we make it.

[Dick Allen]

Well does everyone remember the Ozzie "you dont play the game the right way you dont play with me speech"  where he said if you dont run out a fly ball or play solid you will be on the bench no matter who you are.

 

Meanwhile, Uribe tries to park every single pitch into the seats.  Ozuna kicks the ball all over.  And now in the OF decides to give up on a ball that he thinks is foul yet is fair. 

 

If he was a man of his word he would of marched out and removed Ozuna.  Then of course we pan to Ozuna and Rowand and Ozuna is laughing about it.

 

HA HA HA I FOCKED UP AGAIN. HA HA HA

That was BS from the moment he said it. Ozzie used to jog to first everytime he hit a routine grounder. Hawk even called him out on it back in the day.

[ottawa_sox]

He may be, and I hope you are right. I just think quickman is right. Hope this guy is a #4-5 guy, and if he is more than that its a bonus. We have been burned the last 12 years or so waiting for these guys to be anything more than that.

 

Based on the Sox recent lack of success with pitchers, I understand your pessimism. I'm old enough to remember that drafting pitchers and developing them was the only thing they did right. Hopefully they have been more unlucky than anything. I am going to cling to the hope that he will be more than a #4-5. He is still rail thin and it wouldn't be a huge surprise if he adds a few pounds and a couple of miles per hour. Not that velocity is the be all end all. But it would be nice if his repertoire included 95 instead of 92 for a fastball. After that I think he has shown nothing but glimpses of plus major league pitches - curveball and change up. Shouldn't be all that hard for him to add a wrinkle to his fastball - like a cutter. His attitude and poise are pluses. His location and feel for pitching, likewise, seem to belie his age. For now I think #4-5 is shooting too low. Picking those numbers is arbitrarily leaning on the overall lack of success of recent pitching hopefuls. They have nothing to do with Brandon.

[quickman]

Based on the Sox recent lack of success with pitchers, I understand your pessimism.  I'm old enough to remember that drafting pitchers and developing them was the only thing they did right.  Hopefully they have been more unlucky than anything.  I am going to cling to the hope that he will be more than a #4-5.  He is still rail thin and it wouldn't be a huge surprise if he adds a few pounds and a couple of miles per hour.  Not that velocity is the be all end all.  But it would be nice if his repertoire included 95 instead of 92 for a fastball.  After that I think he has shown nothing but glimpses of plus major league pitches -  curveball and change up.  Shouldn't be all that hard for him to add a wrinkle to his fastball - like a cutter.  His attitude and poise are pluses.  His location and feel for pitching, likewise, seem to belie his age.  For now I think #4-5 is shooting too low.  Picking those numbers is arbitrarily leaning on the overall lack of success of recent pitching hopefuls.  They have nothing to do with Brandon.

 

 

Ottawa, if your concerned about mcarthy's fastball what do you think about Broadways 90 mile an hour fastball? I hope he actaully gets more giddie up and soon.

[CWSGuy406]

again you call me stupid, again you defend players who either have not made it or are fringe players. I really don't understand. If Gload is so great he would be here or starting for another team. He is a back up and will remain that way. So far again I am right and its been the truth. Baj won't make it, they called up jenks and Adkins despite the great BAJ numbers. He barely pitched in spring training therfore I can only conclude he doesn't have the game for the majors. I know you love the minor league players, but they are just not that good.

 

I didn't call you stupid. I disagree with you the majority of the time, but I've never called you stupid. Sorry if you took my 'day job' comment that way...

 

Adkins got killed tonight, and the idea to call him up was still a bad one, IMO. He has nothing, and simply isn't all that good. Munoz/Diaz/Baj would all have been better choices.

 

Why hasn't either been traded for? Well, not many times a 27-28 year old will be the main part of a package. I wouldn't have been surprised, however, if the Sox did make a trade, to see Baj as a fill in, sort of like Majewski last year. And that's not a bad thing -- Majewski is having (last time I checked) a darn good season for the Nats.

 

I love certain minor league players. It's tough to make a blanket statement like that.

 

And I reiterate (sp?), that I don't think Bajenaru is a bullpen stud, nor do I think Gload is a starter. I do think Gload can start, but I don't think he's a starter -- if you understand me. What I'm saying, is basically -- if a team has enough fire power at other positions -- say a team like Boston -- then yes, at league minimum, I think Ross Gload is a good option, because he can give you real good defense at first, and league average production.

 

On a team like the White Sox? Not so much. We need power from that spot, he wouldn't be a good fit there.

 

But you can't disagree with me in saying that he should be on the team. He'd EASILY be the best bat off the bench, something that we'll need in the playoffs. In fact, Gload and maybe even Brian Anderson should make our playoff roster -- IMO.

Edited August 14, 2005 by CWSGuy406

[southsideirish71]

Ottawa, if your concerned about mcarthy's fastball what do you think about Broadways 90 mile an hour fastball? I hope he actaully gets more giddie up and soon.

 

 

I still wished they drafted Cesar Carillo who has already been promoted to AA.

[ottawa_sox]

Ottawa, if your concerned about mcarthy's fastball what do you think about Broadways 90 mile an hour fastball? I hope he actaully gets more giddie up and soon.

 

Totally agree. But I do so, sheepishly. There is so much more to being effective. What does Zito top out at? Have I also heard that Broadway also has an A+ curve. Still for every Zito, there are a dozen Munoz(s). And I don't know much about Broadway's eventual growth projection. You would think in general that a mid 20s year old man could bring a little better than his own college draftee counterpart. There would certainly be a much greater margin of error if Broadway or McCarthy could eventually grow into the mid-90s.

[fathom]

Thank you Tampa! Indians lose. Overall, it was a beneficial day for the Sox.

[WHarris1]

Thank you Tampa!  Indians lose.  Overall, it was a beneficial day for the Sox.

35

[quickman]

I didn't call you stupid.  I disagree with you the majority of the time, but I've never called you stupid.  Sorry if you took my 'day job' comment that way...

 

Adkins got killed tonight, and the idea to call him up was still a bad one, IMO.  He has nothing, and simply isn't all that good.  Munoz/Diaz/Baj would all have been better choices.

 

Why hasn't either been traded for?  Well, not many times a 27-28 year old will be the main part of a package.  I wouldn't have been surprised, however, if the Sox did make a trade, to see Baj as a fill in, sort of like Majewski last year.  And that's not a bad thing -- Majewski is having (last time I checked) a darn good season for the Nats.

 

I love certain minor league players.  It's tough to make a blanket statement like that.

 

And I reiterate (sp?), that I don't think Bajenaru is a bullpen stud, nor do I think Gload is a starter.  I do think Gload can start, but I don't think he's a starter -- if you understand me.  What I'm saying, is basically -- if a team has enough fire power at other positions -- say a team like Boston -- then yes, at league minimum, I think Ross Gload is a good option, because he can give you real good defense at first, and league average production.

 

On a team like the White Sox?  Not so much.  We need power from that spot, he wouldn't be a good fit there. 

 

But you can't disagree with me in saying that he should be on the team.  He'd EASILY be the best bat off the bench, something that we'll need in the playoffs.  In fact, Gload and maybe even Brian Anderson should make our playoff roster -- IMO.

 

 

Ok first I do not care if you disagree with me. i am cool with that. I did take exception to when you said "That's some real s***ty scouting report, because it's awfully stupid to judge a guy off of eight IP." and "Quick saying that he's just gonna be a #4-#5 is one of the dumbest things I've read on this site in a while." Figured those were meant for me.

 

It doesn't matter, reality is Baj is not here and there is a reason for it. Gload is not here and there is a reason for that. I don't believe our system is that great. I do think there will be call ups and they will get a chance to play in september because we will clinch early. Gload will be here for sure, I do not think Baj will but I maybe wrong. I could care less about adkins. Andersen and or borachrd will come up. I do not know about the playoff roster because I hope and pray we will make a trade because I do not think we are good enough to win this thing.

 

As for my day job I will keep it. I hope you have a good one as well.

['94WorldChamps]

Ottawa, if your concerned about mcarthy's fastball what do you think about Broadways 90 mile an hour fastball?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Lance "Dirk Diggler" Broadway tops out at 92, not 90. Doesn't telegraph his intentions, either - unlike Danny Wright, Jason Grilli, Gary Glover among countless flaming-throwing losers who have graced our mound. That's for starters.

 

Secondly... Allow me to explain how this pitching thing works: location, changing of the speeds, movement, more location. Velocity is a diiiistant fifth, unless you're 97-100, and even then it ain't everything. Broadway has an excellent hammer and a nice change-up, and lately has shown he can pound both corners with the best of them, which led to the meteoric rise of his stock pre-draft. Carillo isn't entirely devoid of talent, either; definately livelier/heavier fastball and sexier frame than Broadway's, but in the long run, that don't mean s*** if he lacks the Poise and the Touch - which most do. Time will tell.

 

The reason Felix Diaz and Arnie Munox failed has nothing to do with their lack of a mid-to-high-90s fastball with otherwordly movement. Nada. They choked - which is a far more frequent occurence among talented prospects than most teams would admit. When faced with 30K-strong crowds and the media circus, Diaz all of the sudden couldn't locate, couldn't throw a change-up or a slider to save his life. Basic scheme: fall behind, groove one, get ahead, nibble, groove one. The one start he looked like his AAA self - against the Cubs - he shut them down. Arnie was even worse, just a total s***ting of the pants, with release point going to hell, which killed location, change-up floated, curve rolled, ugly...

 

Whereas Broadway, MaCarthy and Gio are all tough as nails mentally, with a legitimate 3-pitch arsenal (even if Brandon couldn't control the curve and didn't even feature the change-up - brought up a year too early; could use a sinker more than a cutter in the future, as well), and even though all three could very well bust out - such is baseball reality - there's definately a reason to be optimistic. You can add Haigwood to the list, as well. The worst farm system in the majors? Not even close.

 

Also: Before his shoulder came apart, Rauch was absolutely the real deal. Likewise, Kip Wells is also nothing to sneeze at when he was 100%. Kris Honel is all of 22 and has only recently regained his stuff. Cotts is no longer hopeless, either. So don't exaggerate.

Edited August 14, 2005 by '94WorldChamps

[Hanky Panky]

I went to college today. In fact, I moved into my dorm @ Purdue University in West Lafayette, IN. I watched the game a little and quit when it was 4-0. God, why isn't our pitching doing well? Come on El Duque. Don't let 'em sweep us.

[Ozzie Montana]

If our pitching was in tact this series we shoulda won 1 and maybe both. We shoulda won yesterday. If MB pitched 'decent' we woulda won. Today with Jon, he was lit up for 5 runs in 5 1/3 inn. We could have had a better chance at a win if we did not have to resort to Adkins after Jon was aweful. Mark has been looking tired and his era this month is 4.42 Im guessing the guys are just tired but I hope they bounce back. My point is these guys look tired and I hope they can return to form.

I am happy that this offense showed heart in both games and made a run at a comeback. Keep it up guys.

Hope Pods returns soon and avoids DL.

Edited August 14, 2005 by Ozzie Montana

['94WorldChamps]

Baj blows and will never make it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And how exactly did you come to that conclusion? Based on 8 meaningless innings which he logged with a torn groin? The only hard-hit ball was by Vlad, btw... Considering the second and third chances afforded to irredeemable losers by this organization in recent memory, you'd think the guy would be rewarded for his mL dominance as part of the Grinder Plan...

 

What Adkins did today - go 2 innings - Bajenaru can do with his eyes closed. And he won't give up a month's worth of rockets in the process, either.

 

And we seem to agree that Ozzie is a moron who gets credit for so much s*** he has little to nothing to do with. So why do you put so much faith in his ability to judge talent/make wise personel decisions when it comes to either Bajenaru or the gap-demon Gload? Look at the junk we have on our roster, for crying outloud!

Edited August 14, 2005 by '94WorldChamps

[Guest JimH]

And how exactly did you come to that conclusion?  Based on 8 meaningless innings which he logged with a torn groin? The only hard-hit ball was by Vlad, btw... Considering the second and third chances afforded to irredeemable losers by this organization in recent memory, you'd think the guy would be rewarded for his mL dominance as part of the Grinder Plan...

 

What Adkins did today - go 2 innings - Bajenaru can do with his eyes closed.  And he won't give up a month's worth of rockets in the process, either.

 

And we seem to agree that Ozzie is a moron who gets credit for so much s*** he has little to nothing to do with. So why do you put so much faith in his ability to judge talent/make wise personel decisions when it comes to either Bajenaru or the gap-demon Gload? Look at the junk we have on our roster, for crying outloud!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You didn't watch those 8 innings that well. There were quite a few hard hit balls.

 

I am actually a fan of Bajenaru, I've seen him pitch a lot in spring training but again, if he were so great, why haven't other teams been falling all over themselves to give us a good player in a trade?

 

Can Bajenaru go 4 innings, if necessary? No, I don't think so. And that's why they picked Adkins. It has everything to do with what role he can fill.

 

Why is this so hard for this board to understand? It's no conspiracy theory. Adkins can fill in for long relief if necessary. Bajenaru can't.

[quickman]

And how exactly did you come to that conclusion?  Based on 8 meaningless innings which he logged with a torn groin? The only hard-hit ball was by Vlad, btw... Considering the second and third chances afforded to irredeemable losers by this organization in recent memory, you'd think the guy would be rewarded for his mL dominance as part of the Grinder Plan...

 

What Adkins did today - go 2 innings - Bajenaru can do with his eyes closed.  And he won't give up a month's worth of rockets in the process, either.

 

And we seem to agree that Ozzie is a moron who gets credit for so much s*** he has little to nothing to do with. So why do you put so much faith in his ability to judge talent/make wise personel decisions when it comes to either Bajenaru or the gap-demon Gload? Look at the junk we have on our roster, for crying outloud!

 

 

the defense of this board about this guy is unreal. I say it because I believe it. You believe the other teenagers who are in love with the guy. He won't make it.