White Sox vs Red Sox - 8/13/05

[DBAHO]

I love all those guys, especially Ray Liotta ... loved him in Goodfellas, they found Carbone in the meat truck all frozen up, could have been Felix Diaz instead.

Now's a good time for NUKE and his Tee-Ball references for Felix isn't it.

['94WorldChamps]

Some flaws here, but thanks for enlightening us, where have you been all our lives, how did we get by without the benefit of your vast knowledge?

 

Rauch was a head case, before and after the shoulder problem.

 

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You're welcome.

 

There is a difference between an asshole and a headcase. Pre-(career-ending labrum) injury, Rauch had the frame, the velocity and two very good breaking pitches, not to mention the poise, to succeed in the bigs. After the injury, his stuff and swagger were gone, and outside that one outing against the Twins in 2002, never showed much.

 

Cotts has finally matured, and long-term he will be a success as a starter (not an ace but a #3-4). For now, his change-up isn't consistent enough.

 

Honel? Rose from the dead. Let's see what he does in 2006.

 

MaCarthy, Broadway, Gio, Haigwood, Lumsden if he ever gets back... All are talents. Not El Felix-type sure things but they have a decent shot if they stay healthy and put in the work. Whisler was a project from the start, and using him to crap on others somehow strikes me as not completely fair.

[quickman]

I'd say Viz may not be back next season, and maybe not Marte. That leaves possibly 2 spots open, 1 possibly for a free agent, and 1 in house for a guy like Baj possibly.

 

He's not a stuff guy, if he had better stuff he'd probably be on a major league team right now. But when you look what he's done over the past 3 years, the majority of the last 2 at a hitters paradise in Charlotte (with sub 2 ERA's), he's been unlucky to not get a chance. If he was in an organization like the Tampa Bay Devil Rays who are crying out for relievers, he definitely would have by now.

 

 

Ok we will see, we will pick up this conversation next year. What will happen to this board if he doesn't make the team next year? There will be people jumping out of there windows.

[DBAHO]

Ok we will see, we will pick up this conversation next year. What will happen to this board if he doesn't make the team next year? There will be people jumping out of there windows.

I've got no problem with him not making the team if we've got 6 capable relievers in the pen next season doing their job well. It's when guys like Kevin Walker come up and suck it up, when people get frustrated.

 

All in all, it's a good problem to have really. A few years ago when our pen was really struggling (with the likes of Rick White etc.) Baj probably would have been given an oppurtunity. But now with the way our relievers have pitched this year, it's been hard for anyone else to get a chance.

[Guest JimH]

You're welcome. 

 

There is a difference between an asshole and a headcase.  Pre-(career-ending labrum) injury, Rauch had the frame, the velocity and two very good breaking pitches, not to mention the poise, to succeed in the bigs.  After the injury, his stuff and swagger were gone, and outside that one outing against the Twins in 2002, never showed much.

 

Cotts has finally matured, and long-term he will be a success as a starter (not an ace but a #3-4). For now, his change-up isn't consistent enough.

 

Honel?  Rose from the dead. Let's see what he does in 2006.

 

MaCarthy, Broadway, Gio, Haigwood, Lumsden if he ever gets back... All are talents. Not El Felix-type sure things but they have a decent shot if they stay healthy and put in the work.    Whisler was a project from the start, and using him to crap on others somehow strikes me as not completely fair.

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Well, any time, how about that user id question, don't pass that one up ...

 

Asshole, headcase, it's all the same. I don't differentiate because either way they won't make it. Or very seldom will they make it. He didn't have it between the ears, and that's a big concern with Honel too. He is not on the 40 man right now and I'm not certain they'll put him back on. If he rose from the dead, I would say life support.

 

Whisler ... project ... yes, and it's a fair criticism to point a finger at the Sox scouting and drafting because he probably could have been picked down lower. But yes, you are correct, he could turn it around. I see Wyatt Allen all over him though ... a project with a great arm who didn't get it done.

['94WorldChamps]

Personally, you will not convince me so why try?All they did with jenks is take away his booze. For the other players you mention, so far I am right. Are they here? NO, if they do play regulary, then you win, if its more the same then I win. I do know how to read, thanks. I read how you explained pitching to me, God I was enlightened. With that explanation why in the world would Baj be in the minors? Only you can tell us. BUT he is and so is gload. SO far I am right about these guys, but you can keep your expert analyzation. Seems you are pretty bold for a new guy, or maybe your just another retread.

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I may not convince you, but I may convince somebody else not to buy what you're selling. I may be wrong in the end, then so be it.

[Guest JimH]

I may not convince you, but I may convince somebody else not to buy what you're selling. I may be wrong in the end, then so be it.

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Well the thing is, history shows that most prospects won't make it. For whatever reason, it's true. It's that way in just about every sport. You can't trade them all but you sure as hell don't want to keep them all either, especially when your team has a legit shot to do something special.

 

That's the beauty of baseball though, everyone gets to chime in and it's great.

 

What was your user id before this?

['94WorldChamps]

Well, any time, how about that user id question, don't pass that one up ...

 

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Just between you and me, I went by 'Mustafa_Kemal_Ataturk".

[Guest JimH]

Just between you and me, I went by 'Mustafa_Kemal_Ataturk".

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Well, that answer says it all. You're a reincarnate who doesn't want to tell us who you were before. You didn't get banned did ya?

['94WorldChamps]

Asshole, headcase, it's all the same.  I don't differentiate because either way they won't make it.  Or very seldom will they make it.  He didn't have it between the ears, and that's a big concern with Honel too.  He is not on the 40 man right now and I'm not certain they'll put him back on.  If he rose from the dead, I would say life support.

 

Whisler ... project ... yes, and it's a fair criticism to point a finger at the Sox scouting and drafting because he probably could have been picked down lower.  But yes, you are correct, he could turn it around.  I see Wyatt Allen all over him though ... a project with a great arm who didn't get it done.

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It's not the same, though. The headcase is guaranteed to fail, while the asshole not only might succeed, but may overachieve. Pre-injury Rauch IMO had what it takes - perhaps not as early as 2001, but he was no Danny Wright when it came to make-up and finesse. We agree on Honel in principle; but I want to see if him in 2006 first, though.

 

All Allen had was a fastball. And he was a RH. Whisler probably won't make it, just thought I'd point that he's still more of a "pitcher".

[fathom]

It's not the same, though.  The headcase is guaranteed to fail, while the asshole not only might succeed, but may overachieve.   

 

I hate the guy, but Carlos Zambrano begs to differ.

[Guest JimH]

It's not the same, though.  The headcase is guaranteed to fail, while the asshole not only might succeed, but may overachieve.    Pre-injury Rauch IMO had what it takes - perhaps not as early as 2001, but he was no Danny Wright when it came to make-up and finesse.  We agree on Honel in principle; but  I want to see if him in 2006 first, though.

 

All Allen had was a fastball.  And he was a RH. Whisler probably won't make it, just thought I'd point that he's still more of a "pitcher".

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Well it's the same because they're both big problems. Character flaws that prevent an athlete from being his best. Either is a huge problem, the Sox want guys who are neither and I agree with them.

 

Wyatt Allen ... how about that curveball he threw while at Tennessee?

 

Wes Whisler ... pre draft no one could decide for sure whether to take him as a pitcher or hitter. So far, granted in early returns, he's not been good enough at either. He has my sincere wishes that the light bulb turns on and he comes roaring thru the system. That's my hope for every White Sox prospect, that way you have lots more flexibility when it come to personnel decisions and payroll dilemnas.

[Guest JimH]

Here comes another post, I still think you need to visit stopyourself.com .

[quickman]

I may not convince you, but I may convince somebody else not to buy what you're selling. I may be wrong in the end, then so be it.

 

 

Well I am not selling anything on this board. I do that everyday for a living, this board is 80% pro Baj anyway, so no need to be so defensive. Not trying to convince you either, you know what you believe as well as I do. You jumped in on the thread because you felt passionate about the players or system mentioned. I am not as bullish about those particular players or how our system has progressed or not progressed. I am old now, seen alot of drafts and alot of can't miss players actually miss. I care only about the big club and winning the world series. I really do not care which players we have to win it. I personally do not care about how they feel, if they got a fair shot or if they have 12 kids. WIN just WIN.

[Guest JimH]

I am old now

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Next stop ... Bifocals, Depends, and Granny sex.

[Guest JimH]

Well I am not selling anything on this board.

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Hey, speaking of selling, did you know that domain name is for sale?

 

stopyourself.com ?

 

That would be perfect for you. You can have one page set up to be your Bully Pulpit with all things political.

 

Then you could have a big Excel spreadsheet on another page to navigate thru all your White Sox tickets and who has what.

 

Another page could be all the places that serve PBR, Blatz, or good donuts.

 

Still another page could be a list of all the insults we've hurled at one another.

 

And you could have a pictures page and put on Angry Politte, Sara Beeson, Jennifer Aniston, and Wes Whisler. You can call it Quickman's Favorites.

[quickman]

Hey, speaking of selling, did you know that domain name is for sale?

 

stopyourself.com ?

 

That would be perfect for you.  You can have one page set up to be your Bully Pulpit with all things political.

 

Then you could have a big Excel spreadsheet on another page to navigate thru all your White Sox tickets and who has what.

 

Another page could be all the places that serve PBR, Blatz, or good donuts.

 

Still another page could be a list of all the insults we've hurled at one another.

 

And you could have a pictures page and put on Angry Politte, Sara Beeson, Jennifer Aniston, and Wes Whisler.  You can call it Quickman's Favorites.

 

 

how much?

['94WorldChamps]

Well, I guess that's that, which is fine ... you think Gload got shafted because he proved himself, I don't.  No problem there.

 

I would say the reason why Gload didn't get his shot until Aug./Sept. is because he doesn't have the all around talent level to be a big league regular.  Roosevelt Brown is tearing it up in Charlotte too.  So is Willie Harris.

 

He was sent down because they acquired a guy who can play multiple positions, and play them capably.  That's Blum.  And it gives them a chance to carry 12 arms, which is a whole other argument in another thread.

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Indeed.

 

Ok, tell me which "talent" Gload so obviously lacks. Willie has been given plenty of chances and the verdict is in: can't cut it in the bigs. Not the same boat as Gload who waited patiently behind Helton, Vaughn, Gracie for many years, then succeeded the only real chance he got, then injured his shoulder and was practically decommissioned. And Brown's numbers pale in comparison to Gload's right now.

 

Blum is a joke. Barely enough range to handle 3B, let alone 2B/SS. Can't hit to save his life the last two years... Hmmm.

 

This organization is known for occasionally putting petty politics and front office egos above the interest of the team. And Ozzie isn't anybody's judge of talent. So I don't see the "if he was so good, how come he is rotting in AAA... It makes no sense!" line of reasoning as some kind of arguement-ender that many of you apparently do. To each his own.

Edited August 14, 2005 by '94WorldChamps

[Guest JimH]

how much?

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I will find out for you, I think it's too good of an opportunity for you to pass up.

 

I can get you high up in the search engines and you can put out an ezine so everybody can get a good laugh.

 

And don't forget a special page entitled, "ARE YOU NUTS?" where you can comment on all the White Sox prospects.

[quickman]

Indeed.

 

Ok, tell which "talent" Gload so obviously lacks. Willie has been given plenty of chances and the verdict is in:  can't cut it in the bigs. Not the same boat as Gload who waited patiently behind Helton, Vaughn, Gracie, then succeeding the only chance he got, then injured his shoulder and was practically decommissioned.    And Brown's numbers pale in comparison to Gload's right now.

 

Blum is a joke. Barely enough range to handle 3B, let alone 2B/3B.  Can't hit to save his life the last two years... Hmmm.

 

This organization is known for occasionally putting petty politics and front office egos above the interest of the team. And Ozzie isn't anybody's judge of talent. So I don't see the "if he was so good, how come he is rotting in AAA... It makes no sense!" line of reasoning as some kind of arguement-killer trhat you apparently do. To each his own.

 

 

If what you say is true than other teams should be lining up to trade for him in the off season. We will see.

[Guest JimH]

Indeed.

 

Ok, tell which "talent" Gload so obviously lacks. Willie has been given plenty of chances and the verdict is in:  can't cut it in the bigs. Not the same boat as Gload who waited patiently behind Helton, Vaughn, Gracie, then succeeding the only chance he got, then injured his shoulder and was practically decommissioned.    And Brown's numbers pale in comparison to Gload's right now.

 

Blum is a joke. Barely enough range to handle 3B, let alone 2B/3B.  Can't hit to save his life the last two years... Hmmm.

 

This organization is known for occasionally putting petty politics and front office egos above the interest of the team. And Ozzie isn't anybody's judge of talent. So I don't see the "if he was so good, how come he is rotting in AAA... It makes no sense!" line of reasoning as some kind of arguement-killer trhat you apparently do. To each his own.

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You are right then Magruder. Apparantly this is all a huge conspiracy theory, it is all petty politics because you like Ross Gload.

 

Take a step back from the Ross Gload Fan Club for a second, here is a guy who had a bad shoulder since March and it still isn't 100%, he can play one position and when relied upon to come thru at his main skill (defense) he muffed a double play grounder in KC, which he himself admitted.

 

Now one play shouldn't be held against a guy forever but consider this: Ross Gload cannot play 3B, nor 2B. He is marginal, at best, in the OF. If he were such a great major league hitter, someone would have picked him up by now, at age 29 going on 30. They haven't, personally I think that is a big clue, but as you said to each his own.

[Guest JimH]

If what you say is true than other teams should be lining up to trade for him in the off season. We will see.

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And last winter too.

[Guest JimH]

I will add this, personally I hope Gload comes up in Sept. and hits .500 and he is so great he makes the postseason roster and helps the Sox win it all.

 

My thing is, I'm for the team, I don't care one bit about individual players. It is all about the team.

['94WorldChamps]

I will agree with your point about not writing them off. I didn't write all of them off. I do think Baj won't make it. Stuck with Borachrd and crede way too long. Thought they would be all stars. Crede is average not an all star. Drank the cool aid of Willie Harris, the next ray durham. My point is most don't make it, MOST, and the ones that do are either role players or stars. We have very few that are stars.

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We're talking pitchers, not hitters, I thought.

 

Borchard? Reaction-time more suited for foothball than baseball. Now there's your headcase, JimH.

 

Crede on the other hand? Fooled me and a lot of other people. It happens, you know. One minute Joe is confident beyond his rookie statute, and is displaying Nomar-esque plate coverage (2002)... the next - slow bat; trying to pull and elevate everything; no adjustments in sight. Make me wonder if his back problems don't date all the way back to 2003. But whatever.

 

Willie Harris's noone's Durham, but Hawkaroo's.

['94WorldChamps]

You want a kicker? I am not even that big of a Gload fan. If he fails on any kind of long-term basis, I wouldn't bat an eyelash if they launched his ass.