Official game thread 8/15

[jphat007]

They paid him for clutch stats last year?

 

All 68 ABs of his with RISP?

 

It's a stupid reason to pay a guy because he's clutch.  There has to be other reasons.  58 OPS+ doesn't equal seven figures.

 

You can't look at OPS or OBP for a bench player. It just doens't translate. He gets 7 or 8 ABs a week last year, IF THAT. And last year, when the pressure was on with RISP or whatever, he came through. He has done that most of his career. That's what they paid him for. They paid him for those three year splits.

 

68 ABs with RISP are a HELL of a lot for a bench player.

 

But oh well. It doesn't matter. You don't like Timo, I don't think he's as bad as this board says off the bench. What can you do.

Edited August 16, 2005 by jphat007

[ottawa_sox]

Don't forget our managers get severely out-managed by the opposition.

 

If thats true we must have an unbelievalbe amount of talent to have the best record in baseball to win in spite of our manager.

 

Exactly. Ozzie does not get enough credit. And I say this while occasionaly scratching my own head at his moves. His on field managerial skills are only part of his job description. I think Oz brings an attitude and carries himself in an invaluable manner. Somehow he has this team 12 games up.

[Whitewashed in '05]

Oh. sorry. DIdn't realize managers got dumber when the calendar turned. Do they have a chip in their head?

Actually for letting our team play like this for as long as it has, he has been dumber. Ozzie can be just as guilty as he is non guilty for the players not performing, but his stupid ass decisions can decide the outcome of the game before its played.

[fathom]

Don't be so sure of yourself, our offense has been even worse now that hes not on base. Not trying to take any credit away from the pitching but you can't take any away from Pods either.

 

I'm not saying Pods isn't a valuable player. However, the reason that every run he scored was highlighted was because our pitching was incredible.

[fathom]

Exactly.  Ozzie does not get enough credit.  And I say this while occasionaly scratching my own head at his moves.  His on field managerial skills are only part of his job description.  I think Oz brings an attitude and carries himself in an invaluable manner.  Somehow he has this team 12 games up.

 

I will wait until the end of the season (regular season) before I make any judgments about Ozzie's ability to manage off the field. I bet the Nationals thought Frank Robinson was the greatest manager ever at the end of June.

[CWSGuy406]

But oh well. It doesn't matter. You don't like Timo, I don't think he's as bad as this board says off the bench. What can you do.

 

Saying that is a helluva lot different tune then, "I threw it in your face" -- which is what you said earlier.

 

OBP for bench players doesn't translate? Sure it does. If you know how to recognize pitches, it should show in your OBP, REGARDLESS of whether or not you're a bench player.

Edited August 16, 2005 by CWSGuy406

[whitesoxjr27]

Kyle Lohse hung around long enough to earn his first victory since July 2. :headshake

[Gene Honda Civic]

Hmm. Well. I'll just have to say I disagree with that bigtime.

How do RISP ABs occur?

 

By other players on the team not making outs. It's simple really. If you don't make an out you are at the very least awarded first base. Plus by not making an out, you allow for more chaces for your teammates to get hits. That includes HRs, which I don't know if you've heard, are really really good. Every out you make decreases your teams chance of scoring, no matter the situation. Every time you reach safely you increase your teams chance of scoring. Like I said it's simple.

 

Timo Makes lots of outs. He deprives the team of more runners in scoring position AB's through his suckitude in all situations other than RISP than he makes up for by hitting marginally above average in those situations (Though he sucks in ALL situations this season).

 

If we had a team full of Timo's we would score about 1 run per game, but you would be defending them because they would all have good stats with RISP.

 

Timo had what 1 RISP AB tonight? What if he had gone 0-1 in that situation, but 3-3 in the others? -- We probably would have won because he 1) didn't make 5 outs. 2) allowed for more RISP at-bats by the team than in the previous scenario.

[Whitewashed in '05]

I really hope they go out and play with some heart tomorrow, that will shut all of us up.

[jphat007]

Saying that is a helluva lot different tune then, "I threw it in your face" -- which is what you said earlier.

 

OBP for bench players doesn't translate?  Sure it does.  If you know how to recognize pitches, it should show in your OBP.

 

Oh I still threw those numbers right in your face. You gave me his bad splits in those situations this year, then said he sucked last year, I showed you he didn't.

[fathom]

Kyle Lohse hung around long enough to earn his first victory since July 2.  :headshake

 

Hung is the proper word, because his offspeed pitch was terrible tonight.

[fathom]

I really hope they go out and play with some heart tomorrow, that will shut all of us up.

 

What's defined as heart though? I would bet everyone said we played with heart in the Yankees series. The problem is, while a lot of people were saying that series should erase all doubts for people, it continued to raise doubts about our offense. Sure, I'll take any win that we can get now.

[CWSGuy406]

Oh I still threw those numbers right in your face. You gave me his bad splits in those situations this year, then said he sucked last year, I showed you he didn't.

 

On the whole? Yes, he did suck last year.

 

In your certain situations, he didn't suck.

 

But in all situations combined -- RISP, no RISP -- he had a 58 OPS+. Willie Harris, heck, had a 71 OPS+. Willie f***ing Harris.

[southsideirish71]

We are now batting .234 as a team in August.

 

In our offensive cripling may we batted .254. We will have to hit the s*** out of the ball to make that mark.

 

JPHat your girlfriend Timo is hitting a fabulous .167

 

 

Cruddy is hitting .118. Thats worse than his terrible may.

 

Jermaine Dye is hitting .214

 

AJ, Kong, Everett and Arow are the only ones hitting at all in August. The rest of the lineup is worse than starting a pitcher right now.

[ottawa_sox]

[/b]

Pods impact on this team was overrated the first half of the season.  It was our pitching that carried us.  Pods doesn't have a very high run scored total this season.

 

I don't think you can measure his value with stats. This club has been station to station since the Rudy Law years. His legs have to pick everyone up. At one point I think he had 22 steals in a row. The pitchers were admittedly the biggest part of our success early, but with the games being close, everone seemed to believe that they could get it done and they did. For the moment they look flat footed again and suddenly the opposition seems to be psychologically sharp. It's like the difference between having that prick - Rickey Henderson - hitting first on your club, or having him injured. It changes averyone's attitude - starting with, but not ending with the opposition's pitcher.

Edited August 16, 2005 by ottawa_sox

[Whitewashed in '05]

What's defined as heart though?

I define heart as playing with emotion. I define heart as playing with intensity, as playing with the willingness to beat the opposing team not matter what. When you play with heart you dig as hard as you can to the next base wether you think its gonna be a close play or not. If this team shows up tomorrow like they want revenge for today, stealing bases, lighting up Radke who is a big part of the Twins, and doing the right things to win the ballgame, I will see that as heart.

 

There is no excuse for them to be playing like they are now just because they are in first.

 

What was Ozzie's reply to the question the reporter asked him about Pods and Gooch not have anything to do with them playing lethargic? If a damn reporter can see it guys, its damn f***ing obvious.

[Ozzie Montana]

I thought Contreras pitched decent just that he didnt get the close putches like Lohse did which led to Lew Ford driving in those runs cause alot of those were close. Though Im glad he gutted it out and saved our bullpen.

Edited August 16, 2005 by Ozzie Montana

[WHarris1]

Timo. Is. Trash.

PK made a huge baserunning mistake.

Conteras wasn't good.

 

Just ugly

[southsideirish71]

Timo.  Is.  Trash.

PK made a huge baserunning mistake.

Conteras wasn't good.

 

Just ugly

 

 

Trash will leadoff and play left tomorrow night.

[Whitewashed in '05]

I thought Contreras pitched decent just that he didnt get the close putches like Lohse did which led to Lew Ford driving in those runs cause alot of those were close.  Though Im glad he gutted it out and saved our bullpen.

Contreras took a f***ing s***, in a tight game like that he allowed 9 Twins on base. When was the last time the Twins did that s***? Last season?? They f***ing suck offensivley and that s*** shouldn't had happened. He f***ing sucked, we are lucky he saved our bullpen some innings because he flat out sucked and let them take the lead.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Aug 15, 2005 -> 10:38 PM)

On the whole?  Yes, he did suck last year.

 

In your certain situations, he didn't suck.

 

But in all situations combined -- RISP, no RISP -- he had a 58 OPS+.  Willie Harris, heck, had a 71 OPS+.  Willie f***ing Harris.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just curious, why do you continually use OPS+ to compare ALL players? Timo and Willie are obviously going to have smaller OPS+ than bigger guys like Carlos Lee or Matt Lecroy.

 

Timo was brought back because Ozzie likes him and the stats show he was good in clutch situations. For a bench player, the batters should be well prepared for situations where there are runners in scoring position.

 

Timo has no business starting, let alone leading off, and I would be shocked if he is brought back for 2006 (hell he could be gone if/when we get Griffey.)

 

But then again Ozzie might want to bring him back if he comes up big in the playoffs. I highly doubt any of you would bash Timo's OPS+, EQA, or his playing time if he came up with a clutch hit in the playoffs. But I forgot, clutch hitting doesn't exsist. It just doesn't fit the model.

 

I'm more pissed off at Konerko getting thrown out at second (yes it was a bad call, but he didn't run out of the box,) Contreras getting squeezed in the 4th and not being able to adjust or pitch over it (very similar to Garland a couple of years ago,) and I am so sick of seeing slow ass guys getting thrown out at f***ing home.

 

Keep in mind, this is our third loss in a row. A new winning streak starts tomorrow.

Edited August 16, 2005 by santo=dorf

[southsideirish71]

I still say the play that showed how this team played tonight happened earlier.

 

Crede has a close play at the plate, he should of plowed over the catcher. That would of energized our team more than anything. Not only does it show the twins we can play hard, but it shows that we are the new badass on the block.

 

But crede slows down as he gets to the plate, then tries some around move and is tagged out by 3 feet. If he plowed over Mauer its a closer play and gives us a chance to score.

 

That to me, was a big tell in this game.

[nitetrain8601]

Timo.  Is.  Trash.

PK made a huge baserunning mistake.

Conteras wasn't good.

 

Just ugly

 

Contreras was good enough to win with a halfway decent offense. His career ERA is somewhere between 4 and 5. You should expect that type of performance from Count. Plus the fact that Dye could've saved a run by gunning down a guy at home with a decent throw he's capable of, Count pitched pretty good today.

[CWSGuy406]

Just curious, why do you continually use OPS+ to compare ALL players? Timo and Willie are obviously going to have smaller OPS+ than bigger guys like Carlos Lee or Matt Lecroy.

 

Timo was brought back because Ozzie likes him and the stats show he was good in clutch situations.  For a bench player, the batters should be well prepared for situations where there are runners in scoring position.

 

Timo has no business starting, let alone leading off, and I would be shocked if he is brought back for 2006 (hell he could be gone if/when we get Griffey.)

 

But then again Ozzie might want to bring him back if he comes up big in the playoffs.  I highly doubt any of you would bash Timo's OPS+, EQA, or his playing time if he came up with a clutch hit in the playoffs.  But I forgot, clutch hitting doesn't exsist.  It just doesn't fit the model.

 

 

You're right, I shouldn't have used OPS+ to judge a guy like Timo or Harris. I was wrong in doing so. Sorry for the lack of response, but you're right -- I shouldn't have used OPS+ to judge those guys.

[IlliniKrush]

Also, if Uribe could throw a ball to the plate without bouncing it, we may have saved another run.