Greece crash victims "frozen solid"..

[Steff]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8944885/

 

Updated: 11:51 a.m. ET Aug. 15, 2005

 

GRAMMATIKO, Greece - Most of the bodies recovered from the Cypriot plane that crashed into a mountain near Athens with 121 people on board were “frozen solid,” a Greek Defense Ministry source said on Monday.

 

“Autopsy on passengers so far shows the bodies were frozen solid, including some whose skin was charred by flames from the crash,” the source, with access to the investigation, told Reuters.

 

Early indications suggest the 115 passengers and six crew were dead or unconscious when the Helios Airways Boeing 737 plunged to earth on Sunday. There were no survivors.

Rescue workers recovered the pilot’s body and said they had also found the plane’s two black-box flight recorders, including the one that records pilot conversations, crucial to determining the cause of the worst air disaster in Greece and the worst involving a Cypriot airline.

 

The head of the Greek airline safety committee, Akrivos Tsolakis, said that the two black boxes would be sent to the French air safety investigators in Paris for further examination.

 

The voice recorder, Tsolakis said, was badly damaged by the crash and ensuing fire.

 

"It's in a bad state and, possibly, it won't give us the information we need," he said. "Both boxes will be sent to Paris where a French committee will help us and the foreign experts that are here to decode."

 

He expressed confidence that his committee would be able to reach a conclusion "in a few days, a very few days."

 

Tsolakis said Greek investigators were to be joined by U.S. experts following a request made by the American government because the aircraft was manufactured in the United States.

 

Days of mourning

Relatives of some victims, many already enraged by delays in Helios Airways releasing details of passengers on board, were on their way from Cyprus to the crash site near Athens to start the grim task of trying to identify loved ones.

 

At Larnaca airport in Cyprus, from where the doomed plane took off on Sunday, crew and passengers on Monday refused to board an aircraft belonging to Helios Airways, the state-run Cyprus News Agency reported.

 

 

About 100 passengers due to fly from Larnaca to Sofia demanded to travel on planes of other airlines. “First the crew refused to board, then the passengers,” it said.

 

The Mediterranean island of Cyprus started three days of mourning with flags at half staff in a long weekend holiday that is the busiest of the summer for Greeks and Cypriots.

 

Sunday’s crash perplexed aviation experts astounded by what appeared to have been a catastrophic failure of cabin pressure or oxygen supply at 35,000 feet — higher than Mount Everest.

 

Many questions remained, including how the plane appeared to fly for nearly an hour with the pilot and co-pilot already unconscious or dead. Media speculated the plane may have been on auto pilot before its approach to Athens airport.

 

There was also mystery over the last minutes of the flight which was declared “renegade” when it entered Greek air space and failed to make radio contact, causing two F-16 air force jets to scramble to investigate.

 

Terrorism ruled out

Cypriot Transport Minister Haris Thrassou strongly denied some media reports that there were 48 children among the dead.

 

“There were between 15 and 20 young people below the age of 20 on board the crashed plane,” he told Reuters, adding they were all travelling with their families. Slide show

 

 

• Airliner crashes

A Cypriot airliner crashes near the town of Grammatiko in Greece, killing all 121 people on board.

 

 

The plane was on a flight from Larnaca to Prague with a stop in Athens when it came down 25 miles north of the Greek capital. Greek authorities ruled out hijacking or terrorism links to the crash.

 

Greek Defense Ministry officials said 90 minutes elapsed between the alert being raised at 10:30 a.m. and the plane crashing at 12:03 p.m.

 

Greek government spokesman Theodore Roussopoulos said F-16 pilots sent to investigate reported that with the pilots out of action there may have been a last-gasp effort by others on the plane to bring it back under control.

 

“The F-16s saw two individuals in the cockpit seemingly trying to regain control of the airplane,” Roussopoulos told reporters. It was not known if they were passengers or other crew.

 

“The F-16s also saw oxygen masks down when they got close to the aircraft. The aircraft was making continuous right-hand turns to show it had lost radio contact.”

 

A passenger on the doomed plane said in an SMS text to his cousin in Athens: “The pilot has turned blue. Cousin farewell, we’re freezing.”

 

The Defense Ministry said it suspected the plane’s oxygen supply or pressurization system may have malfunctioned, which could have led to death within seconds for all on board.

 

Loss of cabin pressure was identified as the probable cause of two similar but smaller-scale air crashes in recent years.

 

Golfer Payne Stewart and five others were killed when their Learjet aircraft crashed in the United States in 1999 after flying for more than four hours without radio contact.

 

In 2000 a plane crashed in Australia after flying for more than an hour from 25,000 feet up with no sign of life on board.

 

Greek media speculated toxic gas from possible faulty air-conditioning could have incapacitated the two pilots.

[Texsox]

I was reading that earlier. At first I was hoping that they all died suddenly, but based on that text message (isn't it against the law to use a cell phone on an airplane?) it seems they knew they were doomed.

 

to all the families.

[Steff]

I was reading that earlier. At first I was hoping that they all died suddenly, but based on that text message (isn't it against the law to use a cell phone on an airplane?) it seems they knew they were doomed.

 

to all the families.

 

 

 

On the flight to Boston Friday someone's cell phone rang in flight. I always thought it messed with the flight equip, but apparently not.

 

I can't imagine the horror they must have felt. According to the fighter pilots they saw 2 people trying to save the plane before it crashed.

[Queen Prawn]

The whole thing is scary. for the people on board and their family and friends.

[farmteam]

Wait--was this flight entirely with Europe or did it originate out of the US? Sorry, I don't think so, but I'm just making sure--I have a friend who was flying last night, but he was flying to a Scandinavian country.

[Steff]

Wait--was this flight entirely with Europe or did it originate out of the US?  Sorry, I don't think so, but I'm just making sure--I have a friend who was flying last night, but he was flying to a Scandinavian country.

 

 

 

It did not originate from the US. The only reason the US is involved is because the plane was made here.

[farmteam]

Ah, I see. Thanks.

[Brian]

Isn't that what happened with the plane Payne Stewart died on?

[FlaSoxxJim]

Isn't that what happened with the plane Payne Stewart died on?

Basically, yes. The Stewart plane flew for two hours after the last radio contact, suggesting everybody was dead or incapacittated and the plane was on auto pilot.

 

Also, the preliminary coroner's report suggests some of the passengers in the Greek crash were alive at impact:

 

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/08/15...1437/index.html

[Brian]

Basically, yes.  The Stewart plane flew for two hours after the last radio contact, suggesting everybody was dead or incapacittated and the plane was on auto pilot.

 

Also, the preliminary coroner's report suggests some of the passengers in the Greek crash were alive at impact:

 

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/08/15...1437/index.html

 

ESPN did a piece on the Payne Stewart flight and they said that they had a fighter plane next to it and said he couldn't see in the cockpit because it was frozen.

[FlaSoxxJim]

Curiouser and curiouser...

 

Seems the majority of people were alive (if incapacitated) when the Greek jetliner crashed, so the earlier 'all frozen solid' claims may have been overstated. Also, records show this same plane suffered a massive decompression failure last winter.

Edited August 16, 2005 by FlaSoxxJim

[Steff]

Thanks Jim.. I was just reading that.

 

Also.. the black box voice recorder is missing... at least 6 were alive... and the pilot was not in his seat.

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8944885/

[Texsox]

You can't scrap every plane that had a major failure, but at the same time it always seems the plane had this or that problem. Then again, maybe they all do

[SpringfieldFan]

I hate this kind of story. I hate even trying to think about it! I just can't get my mind around what that pain and horror must be like and how it can exist, even though I still know it happens.

 

SFF

Edited August 16, 2005 by SpringfieldFan

[kapkomet]

You can't scrap every plane that had a major failure, but at the same time it always seems the plane had this or that problem. Then again, maybe they all do 

Do you want me to really answer that question, Tex? (Remember that I worked for an airline for a while).

[UofIChiSox]

On the flight to Boston Friday someone's cell phone rang in flight. I always thought it messed with the flight equip, but apparently not.

 

I can't imagine the horror they must have felt. According to the fighter pilots they saw 2 people trying to save the plane before it crashed. 

 

I've read before that the whole cell phone crossing up airplane equipment is just a myth. Can you imagine if you were on a flight and people could use their cell phones at will? it'd be so loud and annoying that I'd probably have to jump.

[FlaSoxxJim]

I've read before that the whole cell phone crossing up airplane equipment is just a myth.  Can you imagine if you were on a flight and people could use their cell phones at will?  it'd be so loud and annoying that I'd probably have to jump.

Anyway, it turns out the "Goodbye Cousin" text message sent from the plane thing was a hoax.

[southsider2k5]

At least one 5 year old boy was still alive when the plane crashed.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/08/17...h.ap/index.html