Adkins

[Chisoxfn]

Ozzie cant manage the bullpen everygame like its going to go into 16 innings that only happens once every 5-10 years.

There is nothing wrong with entering your 16th inning and finally using the last man in the pen. Think about the Indians fiasco early in the year when Viz got hung out to dry because no one else was available. That was mis-managing your pen.

 

I really can't complain about the way Ozzie did it tonight. He was managing for the win in the 8th inning and played the matchups. Personally I'm not a big proponent of the whole righty lefty crap cause I think when a guy is looking good you go with him. Marte was looking good tonight and I'd of just left him in. But thtas not what Ozzie's done and quite frankly you can't argue with the results (1st place, best record in the AL).

 

And in the 8th inning while your winning your damn right your gonna manage whatever way you see best. At that point your not thinking of a 16 inning game cause 99% of the time the game will finish in regulation or at worse go an extra inning or two and the best way to win that game in the next couple innings is by going with your best guys, even if it is for a shorter period of time.

 

In short, you'll win a lot more games managing as if it were going 9 than you would if you always managed with the thought the game is going to go 16 innings.

[Gene Honda Civic]

Does anyone realize that Adkins would have needed 135 pitches to throw 3 innings tonight?

[fathom]

There is nothing wrong with entering your 16th inning and finally using the last man in the pen.  Think about the Indians fiasco early in the year when Viz got hung out to dry because no one else was available.  That was mis-managing your pen.

 

 

Yeah, I'm not blaming tonight's loss on Ozzie. Even though I think someone really screwed up by not having Crede play the line against Stewart, the hitters and two pitchers deserve the blame for tonight.

[Chisoxfn]

Jason, Adkins has had one really good year in his pro-baseball career, and that was a few years ago -- to be exact, at Modesto at Oakland.

 

That's it.

 

He's a AAAA arm, someone you use if you need an extra arm for a September callup.  At no point, should he EVER be on the 25-man roster of a team with the best record in baseball.  It's simply inexcusible.

 

I'm not laying the loss on Adkins.  Our hitters were garbage tonight.  But people say that Adkins was brought up to throw multiple innings.  Multiple innings?!?!?!  He can barely get out of one inning...

 

I don't care if Jeff Bajenaru can only throw two innings at a time.  He can at least throw those two innings a helluva lot better than Adkins can throw his three innings or whatever.

Your talking to the preacher. Adkins is absolutely horrific, he has zero...count that again....zero good pitches. He throws a straight fastball and doesn't have a clue how to change speeds (its why he's gotten shallacked most of his minor league career).

 

But Keith, he did pitch pretty well the first two months of last season or at least I remember him having a good ERA parts of last year. Than everything went back to normal and he got flat out rocked after the all star break.

 

Fact....Bajenaru has a plus slider (anyone that watched the AAA all star game would of seen it too). He also has control (something Adkins doesn't have) and Baj does a good job moving his pitches and varying speeds (something Adkins has no idea how to do).

 

Adkins was billed on the basis of being a power pitcher. His first time in Chicago he was clocked in the upper 90's...than last season he was pitching low 90's. He can not and I mean can not get by with the stuff he is. I don't think he'd play a full season with Tampa Bay (nor would Kevin Walker) and I'm flat out sick of Ozzie sticking with a guy simply because he's familiar with them.

 

I don't know what the org has against Baj because he has better stuff than Adkins and any freaking scout would tell you that. You don't put up an ERA under 2 in AAA (in his 1st full season in AAA) without having at least some skill. Also just remember, last guy I said nice things about down in AAA that was in the pen was Gary Majewski (most everyone laughed at me when I said he'd be a quality reliever) and whats he's doing for the Nationals (pretty damn good).

 

If there is one thing I have at least a pretty good eye for its pitching and quite frankly Baj is the best reliever in the org at this point of the game and he's a whole lot better than Adkins or Walker, both in the terms of knowing how to pitch and stuff.

 

People can tell me Ozzie knows talent, but I think thats total bs. Hawk was busy yapping today about what a great talent evaluator Ozzie is and I just laughed. Ozzie is a motivator plane and simple.

[kev211]

There is nothing wrong with entering your 16th inning and finally using the last man in the pen.  Think about the Indians fiasco early in the year when Viz got hung out to dry because no one else was available.  That was mis-managing your pen.

 

I really can't complain about the way Ozzie did it tonight.  He was managing for the win in the 8th inning and played the matchups.  Personally I'm not a big proponent of the whole righty lefty crap cause I think when a guy is looking good you go with him.  Marte was looking good tonight and I'd of just left him in.  But thtas not what Ozzie's done and quite frankly you can't argue with the results (1st place, best record in the AL). 

 

And in the 8th inning while your winning your damn right your gonna manage whatever way you see best.  At that point your not thinking of a 16 inning game cause 99% of the time the game will finish in regulation or at worse go an extra inning or two and the best way to win that game in the next couple innings is by going with your best guys, even if it is for a shorter period of time. 

 

In short, you'll win a lot more games managing as if it were going 9 than you would if you always managed with the thought the game is going to go 16 innings.

Thats basically what I said except much longer and more thought out.

[Bubba Philips]

Quite frankly I can't really complain....the Sox went pretty deep into the game before they had to use Adkins.

Hate to say it our hitting sucked too Hermanson blew the save. Jenks and Viscaino actually didn't pitch badly Adkins, suppose to be a mop up pitcher. an inning eater.. The reason I understand that Adkins was brought up and not Bajeneru who has a era of 1.17 was that Baj might not be able to go 3 or 4 innings if they need him to. Well we found out today that Adkins is not capable of getting anyone out let go an inning or longer. amazingly I only saw one swing and miss. I don't think he's even worth a spot on Charlotte's roster. :headshake

[Chisoxfn]

Hate to say it our hitting sucked too Hermanson blew the save.  Jenks and Viscaino actually didn't pitch badly    Adkins,  suppose to be a mop up pitcher.  an inning eater.. The reason I understand that Adkins was brought up and not Bajeneru who has a era of 1.17 was that Baj might not be able to go 3 or 4 innings if they need him to. Well we found out today that Adkins is not capable of getting anyone out let go an inning or longer. amazingly I only saw one swing and miss.    I don't think he's even worth a spot on Charlotte's roster. :headshake

Not many guys in Charlotte are worth a roster spot. Charlotte is a futile place to be this year and I hope that next year they can get things to work out. Its funny too, because Bham has been making the playoffs year in year out.

 

It sucks too cause Charlotte has some great people in the front office.

[CWSGuy406]

Agree 100% Jason.

 

Whether you're a scouts guy or a stats guy, you can't deny that Baj is CLEARLY better than his competition at Charlotte. When I saw him pitch in the AAA All-Star Game, I saw at least two plus pitches. He only pitched for an inning (maybe it was two?), but I saw a good fastball, and a really good slider.

 

And, amazingly, he's having (arguably) the BEST year of his pro-career. He's striking out about 10.95 batters per nine, and his ERA is at a career low 1.17. And that was after a bad outing, too -- it's been teatering (sp?) 1.00 the whole season. There is no reason that hasn't gotten a shot with the big club.

 

I hear all the time, "Oh, you could tell that he doesn't have it", and people say this based on the eight f***ing innings he pitched last year, and you have the feeling that Ozzie feels the same way -- that he can judge a guy by such a small sample size.

 

Almost the same story with Majewski. He K'ed about a batter per inning at Charlotte, and even more amazing, gave up only TWO homers in over 40 IP. And he never got a shot with the White Sox, either.

 

It's a touchy subject with me, because people say that I only think he's good 'cause he posted at Soxtalk. And those people have no clue how awesome he's been at Charlotte.

[fathom]

I have the feeling that if Baj was ever acquired in a trade by KW, he'd have a much better chance at making the big league team. There's no excuse to have Adkins on the team. Adkins is the type of guy the Rockies call up, not a team playing for the playoffs.

[Chisoxfn]

I have the feeling that if Baj was ever acquired in a trade by KW, he'd have a much better chance at making the big league team.  There's no excuse to have Adkins on the team.  Adkins is the type of guy the Rockies call up, not a team playing for the playoffs.

I gotta be honest....I hope Baj is dealt in the offseason that way he can get his chance. He's way too good of a guy to have to stick around and not get his shot when worse guys continue to get called up. I'll flip out even worse when he's not one of the players the Sox call up when rosters expand.

[Chisoxfn]

Agree 100% Jason.

 

Whether you're a scouts guy or a stats guy, you can't deny that Baj is CLEARLY better than his competition at Charlotte.  When I saw him pitch in the AAA All-Star Game, I saw at least two plus pitches.  He only pitched for an inning (maybe it was two?), but I saw a good fastball, and a really good slider.

 

And, amazingly, he's having (arguably) the BEST year of his pro-career.  He's striking out about 10.95 batters per nine, and his ERA is at a career low 1.17.  And that was after a bad outing, too -- it's been teatering (sp?) 1.00 the whole season.  There is no reason that hasn't gotten a shot with the big club.

 

I hear all the time, "Oh, you could tell that he doesn't have it", and people say this based on the eight f***ing innings he pitched last year, and you have the feeling that Ozzie feels the same way -- that he can judge a guy by such a small sample size.

 

Almost the same story with Majewski.  He K'ed about a batter per inning at Charlotte, and even more amazing, gave up only TWO homers in over 40 IP.  And he never got a shot with the White Sox, either.

 

It's a touchy subject with me, because people say that I only think he's good 'cause he posted at Soxtalk.  And those people have no clue how awesome he's been at Charlotte.

By the way Keith, I saw you mentioned Josh Fields. He's a really interesting guy, but he's undergoing surgery (I think its like a labrum operation...not positive, gonna shoot his agent an email before I head out to Chicago) and will be out for the season. Supposedly he'll be back at 100% by the start of the season, but I gotta admit I now have some doubts about Fields. Hopefully he can come back and pitch cause the guy always appeared to have a rubber arm (he'd go innings out of the pen and really had great periphial stats).

[Dick Allen]

I just got back from the game. Adkins was horrible, but the Sox weren't going to score if they played 10 more innings. Was the guy safe on the bunt for a non DP in the 16th? And one more thing, why the hell was Crede playing way off the line for Stewart. That was another DP ball. This team is now playing how the so-called experts expected them to play this season. If Garcia and Contreras didn't pitch out of their minds in NY, it would be a 7 game losing streak right now, going up against Santana tomorrow, and 3 with the Yankees who you know are going to score a lot more than 5 runs in this series. Big time trouble because KW and Ozzie thought they had the whole game figured out and stood pat with a team playing way better than could be reasonably expected.

[fathom]

Big time trouble because KW and Ozzie thought they had the whole game figured out and stood pat with a team playing way better than could be reasonably expected.

 

If this ship sinks, they're going down on it also. I said yesterday, and I'll repeat it again: The Sox aren't exactly a team that has so much talent that you think it's their given right to make the playoffs. I look at the Sox team, and compare it with the Twins and Indians, and I have absolutely no clue how we're 11 and 13 games up on them. It would be great just to make the playoffs, cause you never know what happens.

[Bubba Philips]

Not many guys in Charlotte are worth a roster spot.  Charlotte is a futile place to be this year and I hope that next year they can get things to work out.  Its funny too, because Bham has been making the playoffs year in year out. 

 

It sucks too cause Charlotte has some great people in the front office.

I after reading many of the sox threads believe this about Charlotte any ideas on why the better team spirit and players are better at double AA Bham?

[Chisoxfn]

I  after reading many of the sox threads believe this about Charlotte any ideas on why the better team spirit and players are better at double AA Bham?

I'm not in the lockeroom on a day to day basis but I think a large part of it has to do with the extent of AAAA veteran on the club and for that fact most AAA clubs. Quite frankly I think you end up getting a lot of guys that end up getting really frustrated and that the young players just don't have fun being around.

 

On a AA team you usually don't have many guys that have been around the minors for a long time. I think you also have a little more team unity because most of the guys on a AA team are similar in age while a team like Charlotte has very few young players and quite a few guys that are a lot older.

 

I do think you'll see a different group of vets brought in next year down in Charlotte, at least to a certain extent. It also looks to be a much younger club.

[CWSGuy406]

By the way Keith, I saw you mentioned Josh Fields.  He's a really interesting guy, but he's undergoing surgery (I think its like a labrum operation...not positive, gonna shoot his agent an email before I head out to Chicago) and will be out for the season.  Supposedly he'll be back at 100% by the start of the season, but I gotta admit I now have some doubts about Fields.  Hopefully he can come back and pitch cause the guy always appeared to have a rubber arm (he'd go innings out of the pen and really had great periphial stats).

 

Ah, I didn't know that. That's too bad, he was having himself a real nice season down at Charlotte. His peripherals don't look great, but a healthy Fields certainly would have been a better option that Walker or Adkins...

[Bubba Philips]

I'm not in the lockeroom on a day to day basis but I think a large part of it has to do with the extent of AAAA veteran on the club and for that fact most AAA clubs. Quite frankly I think you end up getting a lot of guys that end up getting really frustrated and that the young players just don't have fun being around.

 

On a AA team you usually don't have many guys that have been around the minors for a long time. I think you also have a little more team unity because most of the guys on a AA team are similar in age while a team like Charlotte has very few young players and quite a few guys that are a lot older .. Players brought up into aaa have to play ball and try to find a way to fit in.. I notice when some players are brought up to the bigs they come straight from AA.

[southsider2k5]

again, this is why we had to resort to using Adkins.... because he doesn't use the bullpen correctly..

 

So you are telling me that with a one run lead late in the game, you save your top relievers for a 16 inning game that probably won't happen? Please.

[Guest JimH]

So you are telling me that with a one run lead late in the game, you save your top relievers for a 16 inning game that probably won't happen?  Please.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Mike, in their world, yes.

 

This game was totally on the hitting. If you can't push across a run in 6 extra innings in your own ballpark, forget it, you're gonna lose.

[southsider2k5]

Mike, in their world, yes.

 

This game was totally on the hitting.  If you can't push across a run in 6 extra innings in your own ballpark, forget it, you're gonna lose.

 

No doubt about that. I just don't get someone saying that they would have saved their best relievers in a one run game against your rivals, because of the microscopic chance that a 16 inning game might break out. Seriously, when was the last time the Sox even played 16???

[Ozzie Montana]

No doubt about that.  I just don't get someone saying that they would have saved their best relievers in a one run game against your rivals, because of the microscopic chance that a 16 inning game might break out.  Seriously, when was the last time the Sox even played 16???

I think it was in 1998 in 17 innings when the White Sox beat the Tigers 17-16.

[greasywheels121]

No doubt about that.  I just don't get someone saying that they would have saved their best relievers in a one run game against your rivals, because of the microscopic chance that a 16 inning game might break out.  Seriously, when was the last time the Sox even played 16???

 

First time it's happened at the new ballpark.

[RockRaines]

Mike, in their world, yes.

 

This game was totally on the hitting.  If you can't push across a run in 6 extra innings in your own ballpark, forget it, you're gonna lose.

they didnt score for 9 innings, pathetic

[wsox08]

No doubt about that.  I just don't get someone saying that they would have saved their best relievers in a one run game against your rivals, because of the microscopic chance that a 16 inning game might break out.  Seriously, when was the last time the Sox even played 16???

Ok so we decide to bring in a bunch of solid relievers right before the game ends... Save some of them and use one and then brin gin Hermy.. THere is absolutely no reason to bring in half of the bullpen just because you have them and because of "matchups". Has anyone ever heard of resting them? They don't have to play every game. Ozzie really needs to learn to not watch for matchups..

[YASNY]

Ok so we decide to bring in a bunch of solid relievers right before the game ends... Save some of them and use one and then brin gin Hermy.. THere is absolutely no reason to bring in half of the bullpen just because you have them and because of "matchups". Has anyone ever heard of resting them? They don't have to play every game. Ozzie really needs to learn to not watch for matchups..

 

If you rest Pitcher A, then Pitcher B is unavailable for a day or two. Then you'd be accusing Ozzie of not being able to manage a bullpen. Imagine that!