IlliniKrush Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 What happened to the idea of Valentin sitting against lefties because he can't hit worth a damn right, and starting Graff? He's a solid player and needs to stay fresh throughout the year. Valentin's righthanded at bats are a waste for the most part. What the hell is going on here? And why the hell wasn't he pinch hit for in his last at bat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFanForever Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 Good question, I was thinking the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted May 7, 2003 Author Share Posted May 7, 2003 If you aren't going to start Graff against lefties...what's the point of having him? The answer i guess would be "pinch hitting for valentin against lefties later in the game", like if they brought in a reliever. Well if you are gonna use him as a pinch hitter against lefties, why can't you just give him the damn start when a lefty is on the hill? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 tonight he should have ben in there for "double D" = dips*** d'angE4lo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 the same thing that happened to frank getting more play time at 1st........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted May 7, 2003 Author Share Posted May 7, 2003 the same thing that happened to frank getting more play time at 1st........ Ya, but that's a difference in defensive position, not whether or not he's starting or not. This is graff vs valentin in the lineup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 Ya, but that's a difference in defensive position, not whether or not he's starting or not. This is graff vs valentin in the lineup sorry hon i was just being a smart ass.........i dont know why they dont start graff..but they certianly should........let him take dj's place.......at least in the field........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 Graff should play ever game against left handed pitching. Why he wasn't in their against one of the best is proposterous. I know Jimenez made an error, but he is a much better hitter against lefties then Jose. Also, why are so many complaining about Jimenez's error, yet I hear nothing of the sort about yet another error by Jose. Jose's cost the Sox a couple runs too and he makes errors far more often then D'Angelo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 that freakin jose stE6 dumbass..........i hate when he makes an error..... there feel better jas..they are both a couple of dumbasses.... gees the scarry thing is that whole side of the field is full of dumbasses.......lee, jose, and jimenez......good thing rowand is down south huh.. now harris can take all the heat on the fumbling around out there.........lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted May 7, 2003 Author Share Posted May 7, 2003 Graff should play ever game against left handed pitching. Why he wasn't in their against one of the best is proposterous. I know Jimenez made an error, but he is a much better hitter against lefties then Jose. Also, why are so many complaining about Jimenez's error, yet I hear nothing of the sort about yet another error by Jose. Jose's cost the Sox a couple runs too and he makes errors far more often then D'Angelo. Ya, he threw that ball completely sidearm, that wasn't even 3/4. That was a pitiful throw, that's inexcusable. Valentin sucks at SS as well, i'm with Jason when he says make some changes and have Valentin as your DH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 The Sox must move one of Carlos Lee, Frank Thomas or Paul Konerko. I'm sick of having all these righties and its time to bring a speed game to the table. Bring in some more lefty bats with speed that can play defense. I'd actually be perfectly happy if all three were gone, but if we moved all three we'd have to get at least two very good starters in return. Plus we'd be cutting a ton of money meaning they can sign the pitchers, and that is key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted May 7, 2003 Author Share Posted May 7, 2003 Definitely need speed. D'Angelo doesn't have enough to be a leadoff hitter, and Harris won't get on base enough to be a leadoff hitter. I'd get rid of Lee first as i don't think he's ever going to be any better than he is right now, or the past few years at least. Fine someone who thinks his breakout year is actually coming and get something for him, preferably a lefty bat or someone with speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFanForever Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 I wouldn't even mind packaging Carlos and someone else if we can get a decent player out of it. A leadoff guy, someone with speed, anything. He isn't going to get it done. Sorry heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted May 7, 2003 Author Share Posted May 7, 2003 Well let me add on to my last post by saying get rid of Lee first because it will be practically impossible to get rid of Thomas. So basically, try to get rid of Lee way before Konerko. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 Lets try to think of some guys that are on the market that could help the team. Obviously their is Carlos Beltran, but I think the Sox have too many needs right now to give up so many players to KC. -Bobby Higginson (But he does have a hefty contract He would provide left handed pop and is a very good defensive player. To me he's a big time improvement over Carlos. But only a good move if the Tigers pay a large part of his payroll (They may be willing to do it). He shouldn't be tough to get. -Rafael Furcal I love this guy but I think it would be tough to get him from the Braves. He is super fast and would be great at the top of the order with Jimenez (Jose moves down and becomes DH after these trades; Daubach also plays a lot more sometimes at DH other times in outfield, othertimes at first). Would they go after a swap involving Lee or Konerko? I doubt it, especially since they are playing so good. -Ryan Klesko Doubt we could get him, but he'd be a sweet deal. I'd trade Konerko for Klesko. It would be a rather fair swap, imo. Both are relatively young, not sure what the contract is of Klesko but I think he just signed long term as well. Most importantly Klesko is really smooth at first and can also play outfield. He provides real good left handed power and not looking at stats I'd swear he draws quite a few walks. San Diego could definately be willing to move him. -Mark Kotsay Really good centerfielder both defensively and offensively. Don't think their is much of a shot to pry him away from San Diego, but you never know. A package to land him and Klesko would be awesome, but they'd be nuts to do it for Carlos and Konerko, wouldn't they? Throw in Willie Harris, you could have a deal. -Shannon Stewart Many have talked about him, so I figured to mention him. If anyone else has any ideas, add on, and maybe the Sox will listen or maybe they will catch fire on their own. I'd just like to see Jose move to DH, the Sox drop a few of their righties with other guys that aren't one dimensional (Only offensive players) and pick up better guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 Well let me add on to my last post by saying get rid of Lee first because it will be practically impossible to get rid of Thomas. So basically, try to get rid of Lee way before Konerko. Well I just came up with my new idea of the week. Lee, Konerko and Harris for Klesko and Kotsay. We are way better defensively, pick up two great baserunners and fill the woes in center (meaning Daubach can now play left) and can bring up Aaron Miles or Rowand as a backup. We could also use Borchard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 Graff should play ever game against left handed pitching. Why he wasn't in their against one of the best is proposterous. I know Jimenez made an error, but he is a much better hitter against lefties then Jose. Also, why are so many complaining about Jimenez's error, yet I hear nothing of the sort about yet another error by Jose. Jose's cost the Sox a couple runs too and he makes errors far more often then D'Angelo. probably the big reason was the game was over when jose made his error so at that point it was like so freakin what...had he did that in the first inning and it lead to the 2 runs that it did we all would have been on him too.. plus jimenez 's was a routine pop up...we see guys make throwing errors al lthe time...but NOBODY drops a routine pop up..and it couldnt have caused more damage..3 unearned runs... a real scorekeeper would have given him 2 errors on that play too..first for dropping it..and a 2nd for kicking it rf and letting the 3rd run score.. timing is everything in life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFanForever Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 Wishful thinking Chisox. This team needs to shake things up a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 Graff should play ever game against left handed pitching. Why he wasn't in their against one of the best is proposterous. I know Jimenez made an error, but he is a much better hitter against lefties then Jose. Also, why are so many complaining about Jimenez's error, yet I hear nothing of the sort about yet another error by Jose. Jose's cost the Sox a couple runs too and he makes errors far more often then D'Angelo. probably the big reason was the game was over when jose made his error so at that point it was like so freakin what...had he did that in the first inning and it lead to the 2 runs that it did we all would have been on him too.. plus jimenez 's was a routine pop up...we see guys make throwing errors al lthe time...but NOBODY drops a routine pop up..and it couldnt have caused more damage..3 unearned runs... a real scorekeeper would have given him 2 errors on that play too..first for dropping it..and a 2nd for kicking it rf and letting the 3rd run score.. timing is everything in life The thing is, everyone is so heavily against him it seems. I'd b**** if it looked like he wasn't hustling on it, but he looked up for the ball and didn't look like he was dogging it or anything. I'm assuming he lost the ball in the lights. Its definately inexcusable and I complained about it, but I also complained about Jose's error, because it put the game out of reach and to me ever error matters. Even if they don't score another run a pitcher has to throw more pitches and if that doesn't hur them this game those extra pitches when magnified with all the other errors could lead him to being more fatigued or something along those lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernuke Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 Lets try to think of some guys that are on the market that could help the team. Obviously their is Carlos Beltran, but I think the Sox have too many needs right now to give up so many players to KC. -Bobby Higginson (But he does have a hefty contract He would provide left handed pop and is a very good defensive player. To me he's a big time improvement over Carlos. But only a good move if the Tigers pay a large part of his payroll (They may be willing to do it). He shouldn't be tough to get. -Rafael Furcal I love this guy but I think it would be tough to get him from the Braves. He is super fast and would be great at the top of the order with Jimenez (Jose moves down and becomes DH after these trades; Daubach also plays a lot more sometimes at DH other times in outfield, othertimes at first). Would they go after a swap involving Lee or Konerko? I doubt it, especially since they are playing so good. -Ryan Klesko Doubt we could get him, but he'd be a sweet deal. I'd trade Konerko for Klesko. It would be a rather fair swap, imo. Both are relatively young, not sure what the contract is of Klesko but I think he just signed long term as well. Most importantly Klesko is really smooth at first and can also play outfield. He provides real good left handed power and not looking at stats I'd swear he draws quite a few walks. San Diego could definately be willing to move him. -Mark Kotsay Really good centerfielder both defensively and offensively. Don't think their is much of a shot to pry him away from San Diego, but you never know. A package to land him and Klesko would be awesome, but they'd be nuts to do it for Carlos and Konerko, wouldn't they? Throw in Willie Harris, you could have a deal. -Shannon Stewart Many have talked about him, so I figured to mention him. If anyone else has any ideas, add on, and maybe the Sox will listen or maybe they will catch fire on their own. I'd just like to see Jose move to DH, the Sox drop a few of their righties with other guys that aren't one dimensional (Only offensive players) and pick up better guys. Stewart is overrated but I like the other ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted May 7, 2003 Author Share Posted May 7, 2003 I agree with Higgy if you can get rid of some of that salary. The problem with Furcal is that they wouldn't need Lee in any deal with a Jones-Jones-Sheffield outfield...there's no way to play him. A possible deal with Konerko, depending on who else you need to give up, would be great. If he stops swinging for the fence every at bat, he'll be a great leadoff guy. And i believe he can run more than he has been, but why run often with that heart of the lineup behind you. Also, Fick is coming around now, but i think Konerko would be a definite upgrade. Klesko would be great because it would give us the lefty we need. The only thing bad about that deal is you'd be giving up what, 5 years in age? And Klesko has some speed, whereas Konerko has negative speed (if that's possible he has it). Klesko could still probly swipe some bags, too. Jason, love the Mark Kotsay mention. I've loved this guy for years, but no one knows who the hell he is. I once heard some scout say "he doesn't do anything spectacular, but he does everything pretty well." Some pop, good average, good defensively, pretty good speed. Plays hard. Very underrated, and i think he's on the rise. I don't know how much SD wants to keep him, but he'd be #1 on my list right now because i don't think it'd take a whole lot to get him, compared to someone like Furcal. Stewart's would be a nice addition. He's gonna hit around .300 for years, that's great for a leadoff man. However the one thing about him is he isn't stealing much anymore, but i think this can be attributed to the fact that the Jays just don't run. He can still 30+ bases, i believe. .300 hitter with 30 SB? That looks pretty nice when penciled into the 1 spot on the lineup card. I guess if i had to rank who to go after, all things being considered, i'd go with Kotsay, Furcal, Higgy, Stewart, Klesko. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted May 7, 2003 Author Share Posted May 7, 2003 Graff should play ever game against left handed pitching. Why he wasn't in their against one of the best is proposterous. I know Jimenez made an error, but he is a much better hitter against lefties then Jose. Also, why are so many complaining about Jimenez's error, yet I hear nothing of the sort about yet another error by Jose. Jose's cost the Sox a couple runs too and he makes errors far more often then D'Angelo. probably the big reason was the game was over when jose made his error so at that point it was like so freakin what...had he did that in the first inning and it lead to the 2 runs that it did we all would have been on him too.. plus jimenez 's was a routine pop up...we see guys make throwing errors al lthe time...but NOBODY drops a routine pop up..and it couldnt have caused more damage..3 unearned runs... a real scorekeeper would have given him 2 errors on that play too..first for dropping it..and a 2nd for kicking it rf and letting the 3rd run score.. timing is everything in life The thing is, everyone is so heavily against him it seems. I'd b**** if it looked like he wasn't hustling on it, but he looked up for the ball and didn't look like he was dogging it or anything. I'm assuming he lost the ball in the lights. Its definately inexcusable and I complained about it, but I also complained about Jose's error, because it put the game out of reach and to me ever error matters. Even if they don't score another run a pitcher has to throw more pitches and if that doesn't hur them this game those extra pitches when magnified with all the other errors could lead him to being more fatigued or something along those lines. Though it's obvious Jimenez's error had a bigger effect on the outcome of the game (in my opinion it ended it with Mulder on the mound), i'm more pissed about the Valentin error because he half assed it. A sidearm throw from behind 2nd base? What the hell is that? Jimenez may have lost it in the lights or just misjudged it, but he seemed to be tracking it the whole way and didn't just try to one hand it lazily or anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 Regarding the original question of Graffy vs Jose, maybe Kenny decided who plays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 Kotsay is one of my favs too Koch. The scouts are probably right, but I like him to Jim Edmonds, but healthier and with a bit less pop. Him and Klesko would each still 20 bases and draw plenty of walks and make the Sox a much more fundementally sound team. Right now I'd be really happy to move Lee and Konerko for that (Both would be fits) and they would be a bit younger for the Padres. Konerko is the kind of guy you could build an offense around in the Pads new ballpark. I like Konerko a ton, but if we can't unload Thomas, you got to move PK, imo. Could you imagine if we could somehow get the Tigers to take Thomas for Higgy. Then do the other swap. Have an outfield of Higgy, Kotsay, Maggs an infield of Crede, Jose (even though I cringe at the thought), Jimenez, and Klesko with Daubach dh'ing. Jose could also DH plenty with Aaron Miles or Tony Graffanino or even Hummell playing. We may become pretty lefty oriented, but we'd have a few switch hitters and lefty based teams can win, especially when you have a grand old righty in magglio ordonez in the middle of the lineup. Maggs, Olivo/Aloamr and Crede are enough righties to break it up, imo. The thing is, I've never ever heard of a team making this many moves all at once. I think they are all viable, but it doesn't happen in the majors for some reason. Maybe its cause it wouldn't work, but I'd sure as hell love this lineup. Jimenez Kotsay Klesko Maggs Higgy Crede Daubach Jose Olivo/Alomar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted May 7, 2003 Author Share Posted May 7, 2003 Regarding the original question of Graffy vs Jose, maybe Kenny decided who plays. Well then that explains it, actually Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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