8/21 Games

[RockRaines]

Unless Dye goes to first or someone is traded or injured.  Again, I haven't proven anything other than Anderson is ready now, will be starting somewhere in the OF next year with the Sox or someone else, and Young, if he continues to evolve the way he has thus far, could very well force himself into the picture in the spring or very early in the season next year.

 

As I said before, I wouldn't be surprised to see Dye or Rowand not in the OF for the White Sox on opening day next year.  Heck, Dye could be the DH.

Until Anderson proves he is ready to be a starter, he shouldnt. Dye, Rowand and Pods are all better at their positions. Anderson could be a fill in for a short period of time, no problem. But Young is not ready and needs another full season in the minors before he is ready to start. LIke you said, there is no reason to make him sit the bench when he could be playing everyday at AAA.

[Randar68]

Until Anderson proves he is ready to be a starter, he shouldnt.  Dye, Rowand and Pods are all better at their positions.  Anderson could be a fill in for a short period of time, no problem.  But Young is not ready and needs another full season in the minors before he is ready to start.  LIke you said, there is no reason to make him sit the bench when he could be playing everyday at AAA.

 

When a prospect plays his way into the majors, the team makes moves to accomodate it. They don't bring guys up to sit benches and they don't keep them in the minors if they feel they are ready to be an upgrade for the big club. If they don't need the prospect, they trade them for help they DO need. Again, this is why Kenny Williams makes the big money and we're posting on the internet.

 

For any of these kids, they will not have them in the majors if they aren't going to play a majority of the time, that's a given. But, at making the minimum, the Sox also provide themselves the chance to upgrade elsewhere by trading those players they wish to replace...

 

We'll see, I just said I'm not putting it out of the realm of reason...

[GoodAsGould]

How does Anderson prove he is ready to be a starter? He was the only bright spot on the whole Charlotte team in the 1st half of the season and has hit the ball well. So what else does he have to prove to be ready.

[RockRaines]

How does Anderson prove he is ready to be a starter?  He was the only bright spot on the whole Charlotte team in the 1st half of the season and has hit the ball well.  So what else does he have to prove to be ready.

establish himself as a starter caliber player at the ML level. Success in the minors doesnt mean anything, you have to prove you can play with the big boys, and he hasnt done that yet. And frankly, as much as I like him, I think Dye, Rowand, and PODS are all better.

[danman31]

establish himself as a starter caliber player at the ML level.  Success in the minors doesnt mean anything, you have to prove you can play with the big boys, and he hasnt done that yet.  And frankly, as much as I like him, I think Dye, Rowand, and PODS are all better.

He's played 3 games. Give the guy a freaking chance.

[OilCan]

I jus' luuuuuuv Future Sox arguments!

 

Anderson will be fine. Can't wait for the kids to show.

[RockRaines]

He's played 3 games. Give the guy a freaking chance.

thats not what im saying. I think that Anderson will be the 4th OF'er next year, but there is no room for Young and Owens. Dont try to make it into an argument that its not. The debate was whether or not Young would come up and start.

[Randar68]

thats not what im saying.  I think that Anderson will be the 4th OF'er next year, but there is no room for Young and Owens.  Dont try to make it into an argument that its not.  The debate was whether or not Young would come up and start.

 

 

You're right. The argument is over if your IQ is greater than your age if you think Brian Anderson will be kept on the roster as the 4th OF'er next year sitting 5 days a week.

 

That is simply asinine.

 

Then again, I guess he's going to have to prove he's an everyday major league OF'er by playing 2 days a week... Good lord... hit the rock some more, Raines...

Edited August 23, 2005 by Randar68

[GoodAsGould]

thats not what im saying.  I think that Anderson will be the 4th OF'er next year, but there is no room for Young and Owens.  Dont try to make it into an argument that its not.  The debate was whether or not Young would come up and start.

 

 

Exactly thats where the argument ends.... You dont bring one of your top prospects up to be a 4th OF.... If he is up he is going to be starting.... anyone knows that who knows anything about minor league prospects. You dont bring up your prospects to be bench warmers.

[YASNY]

Exactly thats where the argument ends.... You dont bring one of your top prospects up to be a 4th OF.... If he is up he is going to be starting.... anyone knows that who knows anything about minor league prospects.  You dont bring up your prospects to be bench warmers.

 

A lot of good ballplayers have hit the majors as a part time player. Anderson can do just that and learn how to be a major leaguer until he forces his way into the every day lineup. When you are a contending team, you hand a starting role to an unproven rookie. Once the kid forces your hand, then you make room for him. Not before.

[Randar68]

A lot of good ballplayers have hit the majors as a part time player.  Anderson can do just that and learn how to be a major leaguer until he forces his way into the every day lineup.  When you are a contending team, you hand a starting role to an unproven rookie.  Once the kid forces your hand, then you make room for him.  Not before.

 

There's a reason why the bench players on contenders are almost exclusively major league veterans. Position players do not equal pitchers...

 

Pitchers can see action out of the bullpen and learn a lot in a short period of time. Position players must play regularly. Frankly, not to be an ass, but anyone who doesn't recognize this doesn't know a damned thing about baseball or player development at the very least.

[RockRaines]

Exactly thats where the argument ends.... You dont bring one of your top prospects up to be a 4th OF.... If he is up he is going to be starting.... anyone knows that who knows anything about minor league prospects.  You dont bring up your prospects to be bench warmers.

What!!!! Anyone you bring up from the minors has to start? Thats news to me. In fact if he started every day he may be worn out by the break. You have got to be kidding me. Anyone who is anyone huh? He has to play his way into the starting lineup, just like most of our prospects have had to do over the years.

[danman31]

What!!!! Anyone you bring up from the minors has to start? Thats news to me. In fact if he started every day he may be worn out by the break.  You have got to be kidding me.  Anyone who is anyone huh?  He has to play his way into the starting lineup, just like most of our prospects have had to do over the years.

See Aaron Rowand. He didn't develop for a lot longer than it should have taken as a result of being on the bench year after year.

[Randar68]

What!!!! Anyone you bring up from the minors has to start? Thats news to me. In fact if he started every day he may be worn out by the break.  You have got to be kidding me.  Anyone who is anyone huh?  He has to play his way into the starting lineup, just like most of our prospects have had to do over the years.

 

 

This is like trying to explain particle physics to a 2 year old.

[OilCan]

Or like your As, Bs, Cs and Ds too! Edited August 24, 2005 by OilCan

[YASNY]

There's a reason why the bench players on contenders are almost exclusively major league veterans.  Position players do not equal pitchers...

 

Pitchers can see action out of the bullpen and learn a lot in a short period of time.  Position players must play regularly.  Frankly, not to be an ass, but anyone who doesn't recognize this doesn't know a damned thing about baseball or player development at the very least.

 

Sorry, I didn't know I was dealing with a professional here. My main point, Mr. KnowItAll was that we have a contending type team. Sure, IF your intent is to develop a ballplayer as quickly as possible and let him go through his growing pains at the expense of the club, then that is the best way to go about it. However, if you main focus is to win, then that player has to play when he can and earn his way into the lineup.

 

Not to be an ass, but get off your high horse. Opinions are like assholes. We all have one.

[RockRaines]

This is like trying to explain particle physics to a 2 year old.

Oh im sorry Minor League Czar. I didnt know that you knew everything there is to know about player development. Please enlighten us all, in fact, you might want to call a conference on your knowledge. Im sure ALOT of gm's would want to hear why they should be starting every prospect that comes up through the system. The fact that we are both in our 20's and you have (i assume) decent knowledge of baseball, I would think that we could at least explain our POV's in this situation. The fact that your only material for posting seems to try and belittle me, seems to indicate you arent sure how to back up your position. Fact is, many teams being up their prospects to play sparingly and earn their way into the lineup. They may even make several trips back down to the minors first. (see TB) In our team's situation, we have brought up many homegrown players and let them develop into starter material. (see A-row) Even now there are teams that have brought up mid-season AA prospects and have plugged them in sparingly to make sure they become seasoned enough to contribute.

 

For the 2006 WS we have 3 starting Of'ers coming back. Which one of them would you like to displace for BA? His defense and power would be a great asset to have as a 4th OF or a replacement depending on performance or injury. He doesnt need another year in AAA because he has proven he can play at that level. Its time to get him seasoned for the bigs. He is not a lights-out prospect, and very well may not be a surperstar, but he may be able to step into the starting role with some more time up, and some experience. As for Young and Owens, they will have another year in the minors with a possible mid-season call up. Thats my POV, whats yours?

[Randar68]

For the 2006 WS we have 3 starting Of'ers coming back.  Which one of them would you like to displace for BA?  His defense and power would be a great asset to have as a 4th OF or a replacement depending on performance or injury.  He doesnt need another year in AAA because he has proven he can play at that level.  Its time to get him seasoned for the bigs.  He is not a lights-out prospect, and very well may not be a surperstar, but he may be able to step into the starting role with some more time up, and some experience.  As for Young and Owens, they will have another year in the minors with a possible mid-season call up.  Thats my POV, whats yours?

 

 

I would still move Dye to 1B or DH and you now have a spot for Anderson. Unless they resign Konerko, at which point I trade Aaron Rowand for bullpen help or prospects and put Anderson in CF, leaving Dye in RF.

 

Again, you stunt the development of a prospect by sitting them regularly. If he isn't playing almost every day, leave him in AAA. WTF is the point of AAA baseball if it isn't "seasoning for the bigs?"

 

I don't disagree about Young/Owens other than what I have previously said in that Young has the type of talent to force the hand of Kenny Williams to make room for him.

[Randar68]

  However, if you main focus is to win, then that player has to play when he can and earn his way into the lineup. 

 

That is why guys like Timo Perez have jobs. You don't go around ruining prospects and messing with major league regulars with part-time on-the-job-training of prospects. That is what the minor leagues are for.

[RockRaines]

I would still move Dye to 1B or DH and you now have a spot for Anderson.  Unless they resign Konerko, at which point I trade Aaron Rowand for bullpen help or prospects and put Anderson in CF, leaving Dye in RF.

 

Again, you stunt the development of a prospect by sitting them regularly.  If he isn't playing almost every day, leave him in AAA.  WTF is the point of AAA baseball if it isn't "seasoning for the bigs?"

 

I don't disagree about Young/Owens other than what I have previously said in that Young has the type of talent to force the hand of Kenny Williams to make room for him.

You are moving Dye to a position he has played once in this uniform, and single digit times in his career, please. He is also too good defensively to make him a full time DH. Trading your starting CF'er who is potentially a gold-glove hopeful now and in the future to replace him with an unproven prospect is ridiculous.

 

All of your theories line up well with a team that is rebuilding. Unfortunatley we arent in that stage of our organization. Anderson is not going back down to AAA next year, he is up for good. Which is where he belongs. And the door is open for him to play his way into the lineup. If you are going to trade anyone is YOUR scenario its Anderson, because he is the least proven player, and being that we are going to be trying to repeat this year's success, you dont rebuild.

[RockRaines]

There's a reason why the bench players on contenders are almost exclusively major league veterans.  Position players do not equal pitchers...

 

 

BTW, a majority of all players on rosters are veteran's so your sample size is a bit off.

[Randar68]

BTW, a majority of all players on rosters are veteran's so your sample size is a bit off.

 

 

Look at the benches of the contenders in either league and you'll find almost exclusively veterans.

 

They've been around the league, know how to handle themselves, had regular starting jobs at some point in their career and know what they need to do at this level to be ready to play on-and-off...

 

That is WAY too much to ask of almost any prospect/rookie.

 

Stop speaking in vague generalities and show me valuable examples of where teams do what you are suggesting and it doesn't stunt the growth of said prospect...

[Randar68]

You are moving Dye to a position he has played once in this uniform, and single digit times in his career, please.  He is also too good defensively to make him a full time DH.  Trading your starting CF'er who is potentially a gold-glove hopeful now and in the future to replace him with an unproven prospect is ridiculous. 

 

All of your theories line up well with a team that is rebuilding.  Unfortunatley we arent in that stage of our organization.  Anderson is not going back down to AAA next year, he is up for good.  Which is where he belongs.  And the door is open for him to play his way into the lineup.  If you are going to trade anyone is YOUR scenario its Anderson, because he is the least proven player, and being that we are going to be trying to repeat this year's success, you dont rebuild.

 

This is all the way back around to the fascination with Aaron Rowand? Good Lord. .750 OPS players are extremely replaceable. You watch Lew Ford play CF this series? Rowand might not be the 3rd best OF'er if he were on the Twins roster (if you include Hunter). On top of that, Anderson is not a defensive downgrade from Aaron Rowand. If anything, making Rowand the 4th OF'er makes a lot more sense than making Anderson the 4th OF'er...

 

Jermaine Dye is an athletic guy who has had trouble staying healthy in the OF the past 3 years other than this year. 1B or DH keep him healthy and keep his bat in the lineup. You're telling me that Dye could not learn first base in the 5 months from the end of October through opening day next year? He must be some kind of mental midget to not be able to learn a position they stick the most immobile and defensive liability players at...

 

The Yankees and Red Sox find ways to play their rookie prospects everyday when they do bring them up and their lineup is higher-paid and almost exclusively veteran. I'm not advocating replacing half the lineup with rookies, simply one position/player. Yet, apparently, that is synonomous with "rebuilding"... yeah... ok...

 

:rolly

[danman31]

If teams liked putting young guys on the bench the Angels would have had Dallas McPherson and Casey Kotchman up earlier. Teams will always have players repeat AAA rather than sit on a Major League bench.

[RockRaines]

The yankees and Red Sox have prospects??

 

This thread has gone on long enough. If you want to cite specifics, then fine. I already named teams that have brought up rookies and not played them full time. Cinci, TB, Cubs, Sox, Det, LA, Sea, Min among others. In some cases the rookies have played themselves into starting roles. But in some cases they rotate days playing with others. If you want to argue your one-tracked view on the issue, PM me, because im not looking at this old thread anymore to see other paragraph about your "expert" opinion on player development.