Beef, Dogs, or Pizza?

[FlaSoxxJim]

And to keep the trend alive....razumem.

Gesundheit!

[SoxFan1]

Gesundheit! 

.....uuum.....evrybawdy won fahn potty!?!?

[knightni]

Your dad is absolutely right.  Though I quite enjoy the Uno's deep dish and Malnati's/Giordano's-style stuffed pizzas, they are not classic Chicago style.  Cracker crust, loads of fresh mozzarella, good Italian seasoning in the sauce, and spice Chicago sausage, with the slices cross-cut into squares and NOT pie wedges – that's Chicago pizza.

 

And I refuse to vote in the poll.  Three-way tie, and the commonality between all of them is the good Chicago beef that is our hallmark and legacy as the former stockyard capital of the world.

 

Damn I'm hungry now.

Barnabys here in South Bend has a beer batter crust pizza that is an awful lot like that.

 

I their pizza.

Edited August 24, 2005 by knightni

[YASNY]

More than anything else, I miss the Italian beef-sausage combos.

[southsider2k5]

Barnabys here in South Bend has a beer batter crust pizza that is an awful lot like that.

 

I  their pizza.

Freshen my memory for a second, is that the place in the old downtown area? If so that was a great pizza place for not being in Chi-town. Its about the only redeeming thing in SB

[DBAHO]

How much would an average Pizza cost in Chicago FWIW?

[southsider2k5]

How much would an average Pizza cost in Chicago FWIW?

 

Deepdish or thin crust? There is a big difference there. Good deep dish is much more expensive, as there are a lot more ingrediants that go into it.

[Soxy]

Deepdish or thin crust?  There is a big difference there.  Good deep dish is much more expensive, as there are a lot more ingrediants that go into it.

But it also balances out--because you can physically eat less of those deep dish pizza. A small is more than sufficient for 2-3 people. I think a small at a place like Giordanos runs about $13-15. I think.

[Texsox]

Milkman probably has it figured out.  Both of my younglings still feel the need to gross me out with ketchup on their dogs.

 

But, if we are talking about the heavenly aspects of the CHICAGO DOG, there is no place for ketchup in the discussion.

 

A 100% authentic CHICAGO DOG consists of:

 

- Vienna Beef dog

- POPPY SEED bun (preferably Mary Anne brand), steamed

- mustard (yellow)

- scary bright nuclear green relish of unknown origin

-chopped onions

- tomato slices (2 or 3)

- whole hot peppers (sport peppers) (2)

- a Kosher pickle spear placed longways, paralell to the dog and bun (a cucumber spear is acceptable here as well)

- celery salt

 

And that is it.  Nothing else is allowed or needed, and any substitutions or deletions makes it not a CHICAGO DOG.

 

 

 

The only variation that should be allowed is the cooking of the dog. Charred or not. I'm on the charred side, but mostly because the first time I ordered one at Chicago Dogs, University Ave, Edinburg, Texas the owner looked up at me and said, you *must* be from Chicago.

 

Getting the proper ingredients is difficult around the country. Craig orders his kosher dogs from Vienna in Chicago and the buns from a Chicago supplier as well. You cannot find poppy seed buns in many locations. It was the first clue he "got it right".

 

I also believe the whole no ketchup thing really caught steam from Sudden Impact. Almost anything Eastwood said in the Dirty Harry movies became a cultural icon. Feel lucky?

 

On the pizza front:

Pat's Pizza Grayslake, IL. thin crust

Lou's (any location) deep dish sausage

Rosati's -- bacon pizza

[Kid Gleason]

Super Dog breaks the tradition by using that crazy pickled tomato on theirs though, and they are easily one of the best damn Dogs in the area.

 

Those dang poppy seed buns are even a b**** to find in the area in stores!

 

For me though, the only thing that is truely optional is the sport peppers. Those little things are pretty evil and you can't fault a person for not wanting those things on their food. You can go easy on the onion, but just one of those stupid peppers can overwhlem you. That is the reason why most have to be told to include the little green turds.

[Texsox]

You can build a nice dog without the full Chicago fixin's, but it isn't a Chicago dog. I'll admit, while in Mexicon and going native, I enjoyed a bacon wrapped dog with lettuce, tomato, and mayonnaise that was damn tasty. The nuclear green relish was replaced pictorially by a nuclear red hot dog.

[SnB]

I see. We Chicagoans take pride in our food and even though your in Florida, I trust your opinion. Other than the fact that I don't like mustard, onions, tomatos, peppers. and salt, I'd eat it.

:headshake

[DBAHO]

But it also balances out--because you can physically eat less of those deep dish pizza. A small is more than sufficient for 2-3 people. I think a small at a place like Giordanos runs about $13-15. I think.

Yeah I've heard so much about the deep dish Pizza's from everyone here when a food discussion comes up, but sadly they don't have them down here. Although when I do visit Chicago for the 1st time, having a deep dish Pizza is right up there on the "To Do" pile, if you will.

 

And on the Hot Dogs, they're not big down here at all either, not like in America. We had a few at one of the D-Backs games we went to, let's just say, the indigestion for the next 2 hours wasn't the greatest period of my life stomach wise. And yeah I have ketchup too, I'm not a Relish and Mustard person.

[hammerhead johnson]

Holy crap, I thought that the Italian Beef would win in a landslide.

 

Ketchup on a hot dog? I can't fault a guy for having bizarre taste buds, but that s*** is crazy to me.

[hammerhead johnson]

You can build a nice dog without the full Chicago fixin's, but it isn't a Chicago dog.

 

Even though you're in Texas, I trust your opinion.

[tonyho7476]

I voted beef...but I want to comment on hotdogs. If its a chicago style dog, no ketchup. But, if you're at a ballgame and they only have ketchup and mustard on them, I put both. That way there is some more flavor. But a chicago style dog would never get ketchup.

[Kid Gleason]

Why is it that at the two ball parks in this city, they both feature a dog not in the "Chicago Style", but rather grilled with grilled onions, and that is what everybody craves at the parks?

 

How is it also that neither one serves Vienna?

 

Shouldn't they also show some care about the tradition and kick out the crappy assed Connies Pizza and bring in some GOOD Pizza by any of the great joints?

 

Shouldn't a baseball game in this city have food VERY reminisent of what you can get in the city?

 

Milwaukee has Brats and Miller products, along with many other local breweries. Goose Island is at The Cell...but that is it for local brews. No Italian Beefs on mass display...only Connies crap...no Chicago Dogs. It always seemed wrong to me. Hell, stick a few Portillo booth's in there. They are chain enough that they could handle the supply needed.

[SnB]

Why is it that at the two ball parks in this city, they both feature a dog not in the "Chicago Style", but rather grilled with grilled onions, and that is what everybody craves at the parks?

 

How is it also that neither one serves Vienna?

 

Shouldn't they also show some care about the tradition and kick out the crappy assed Connies Pizza and bring in some GOOD Pizza by any of the great joints?

 

Shouldn't a baseball game in this city have food VERY reminisent of what you can get in the city?

 

Milwaukee has Brats and Miller products, along with many other local breweries. Goose Island is at The Cell...but that is it for local brews. No Italian Beefs on mass display...only Connies crap...no Chicago Dogs. It always seemed wrong to me. Hell, stick a few Portillo booth's in there. They are chain enough that they could handle the supply needed.

 

because a chicago hot dog is a "meal", you don't serve meals at a ballpark, you serve hot dogs.

 

And besides, you can't get those great of grilled onions anywhere, they're special to our park.

[Kyyle23]

For the longest time I was an Oscar Meyer weiner kid, I was raised on them and didnt know any better. I always LOVED having hot dogs at sporting events and hot dog stands, and couldnt really understand why they tasted so much better than OMW brand.

 

Last month I decided to bite the bullet and spend the extra 2 bucks on Vienna Beef brand hot dogs. Low and behold, there was the taste! I told myself I am never buying oscar meyer ever again.

 

On the lifetime network there was a show that was pretty much "The top 50" of anything and everything, and one time me and my wife sat down and watched the episode about "The Top 50 hot dogs". I thought to myself, "there is no way that hot dogs can taste that much different". After watching that show, I want to rent a RV and go across the country to the different Hot Dog stands. Among the most interesting:

 

New Jersey "Rippers" - hot dogs dunked in boiling oil until they "rip" open. Crispy on the outside, hot-doggy on the inside

 

New Yorks famous Grays Papaya Dogs - not actually made of papaya, but from what I hear they are to die for.

 

Alabama Red hots - It wasnt so much that they were real "red hots", with the red casing on the dogs, but this particular Hot Dog stand had their own special relish/mustar blend that looked like something I want to try. Plus, its a secret recipe, and I love to try secret recipes.

 

After that, i cant really remember much. it was about a year and half ago, and I barely can remember yesterday.

[Kid Gleason]

because a chicago hot dog is a "meal", you don't serve meals at a ballpark, you serve hot dogs.

 

And besides, you can't get those great of grilled onions anywhere, they're special to our park.

 

So the fries are just a garnish?

 

I don't get where this idea that the onions are exclusive to The Cell came from. Over at "the other place" you can get a dog with grilled onions also. They look the same, and smell the same. The difference is that the dog is a Hebrew National (NY made) and at The Cell they are Best (Chicago made). But the presentation is exactly the same. So why do we think ours is "exclusive"???

[FlaSoxxJim]

So the fries are just a garnish?

 

I don't get where this idea that the onions are exclusive to The Cell came from. Over at "the other place" you can get a dog with grilled onions also. They look the same, and smell the same. The difference is that the dog is a Hebrew National (NY made) and at The Cell they are Best (Chicago made). But the presentation is exactly the same. So why do we think ours is "exclusive"???

 

Did one of the parks used to sell David Bergs? Those are the Aurora IL-made kosher dogs of choice (I like them better than hebrew national), and they were the ones we sold at Soldiers' when I used to work the Bears games.

 

The David Bergs also have the supposed distinction of being the first hot dogs sold at a major league ballpark, back in 1901, but that is a matter of debate. Whether they called them hotdogs or not, frankfurter and Vienna-style sausages were sold at ballgames before that time.

[Kid Gleason]

Did one of the parks used to sell David Bergs?  Those are the Aurora IL-made kosher dogs of choice (I like them better than hebrew national), and they were the ones we sold at Soldiers' when I used to work the Bears games.

 

The David Bergs also have the supposed distinction of being the first hot dogs sold at a major league ballpark, back in 1901, but that is a matter of debate.  Whether they called them hotdogs or not, frankfurter and Vienna-style sausages were sold at ballgames before that time.

 

Neither park sells Berg right now. I have never been to Soldiers Field (except to see Cheap Trick, Joe Walsh, and Steve Dahl And The Teenage Radiation back at Chicagofest in...oh...'81 maybe), so I have no idea what is sold there.

[Controlled Chaos]

This should be Italian Beef in a landslide. What is wrong with you people??

 

Everyone serves hot dogs and pizza. They can be found in every state and probably most countries. Now we can lay claim to a certain style of both...yes, and they are significantly better than others, but da beef by far is 'Chicago' food. You hardly even see Italain Beef on the menu at stands outside chi-town.

 

When the dictionary names us...you know it's right

 

Italian Beef

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

An Italian Beef sandwich consists of thin slices of beef served inside of Italian bread or some other crusty bread, which has been cut lengthwise and into individual portions. (The "Italian Bread" seen in common use in Chicago is a white loaf with a high gluten content and little to no sourdough flavor, made to be reminiscent of what many think of as being Italian restaurant bread). Even though it is served on Italian Bread sliced lengthwise, this is the only thing it has in common with submarine sandwichs. Italian beef is made using tough cuts of meat sliced thinly and long simmered in broth with onions and sweet green bell peppers. The meat is served dripping wet from the beef broth, topped with the vegetables it was cooked with, or hot peppers (Giardinera peppers). thus the need to use a chewy bread for this dish: a softer bread would disintegrate.

 

The Italian beef sandwich is a dish associated with Chicago, especially in the home cooking of families from working class neighborhoods on the South Side. It is difficult to obtain outside of the Chicago area. Italian Beef sandwiches can be found in many small restaurants throughout the city and its suburbs, although residents of Chicago's south side feel that what is served under this name may be of questionable authenticity.

 

 

Possible origins

As is the case with much of the life and culture of the lower socioeconomic classes during the turn of the 20th Century, this dish has seen little documentation in print, and its origins may never be truly known, having vanished into the realm of folklore.

 

The usual story (when a story is offered at all) seems to be that this dish is known as "Italian Beef" because the vendors who once sold it in the street were of Italian descent. Other places it is told that the name comes from the idea that Italians put a lot of seasoning on their beef ([1]).

 

Stylistically, the dish seems to be more Eastern than Southern European, to the extent that something this simple can be said to have a style at all. This would be in keeping with the ethnic mix of the region of Chicago this dish originated in, home to a large Croatian community, along with other substantial Eastern European presences.

 

What is un-Italian about "Italian Beef" is the way in which vegetables intended for consumption as a solid accompaniment to the meat are simmered (as opposed to cooked in oil) well past the al dente stage, to the point at which their flavor has permeated the broth in which they cook, and vice versa.

 

Further arguing against any sort of Italian origin for this dish is the demographic reality that the Italian presence in Chicago has historically been concentrated in the Tri Taylor neighborhood; the South Side home of the Italian Beef sandwich lies about six miles to the South, a considerable distance on a Chicagoan scale, showing the implausibility of the commercial product currently being offered by many pizza joints being taken as a substitute for the genuine folk article, and illustrating the dangers of taking ad copy as documentation. Some varations have mozarella cheese, however, the people who produced the homegrown product for some generations never even encountered mozarella cheese, much less worked it into their diet. This shows that is very unlikely that the original dish ever had mozarella cheese.

 

 

 

On a side note...I found that bright neon green relish the other day at the store....It's called Rolfs and was right by the other relish. I'm not sure why I never found it before.

Edited August 24, 2005 by Controlled Chaos

[knightni]

Freshen my memory for a second, is that the place in the old downtown area?  If so that was a great pizza place for not being in Chi-town.  Its about the only redeeming thing in SB

Barnaby's is east of downtown as well as over in Mishawaka on Grape Road near the mall.

 

Bruno's is south of downtown and other places throughout SB/Mish.

 

Rocco's is up by ND.

 

Pollito's is pretty darn good as well. They make a NY style, a Chicago style and a BrickOven style.

 

 

Michigan City is not that redeeming either, I've been there a few times.

[southsider2k5]

Barnaby's is east of downtown as well as over in Mishawaka on Grape Road near the mall.

 

Bruno's is south of downtown and other places throughout SB/Mish.

 

Rocco's is up by ND.

 

Pollito's is pretty darn good as well. They make a NY style, a Chicago style and a BrickOven style.

Michigan City is not that redeeming either, I've been there a few times.

 

No it isn't redeeming, but at least the property is cheap