Heads22 Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 After this year, where do you guys think he ranks as far as our minor league pitching talent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 If he finishes as strong as he's been pitching lately, he moves up to second for me. All, IMO: 1.)McCarthy 2.)Haigwood 3.)Gonzalez 4/5.)Broadway/Tracey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted August 25, 2005 Author Share Posted August 25, 2005 Where do you put Liotta then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 I'd put it McCarthy Gio Haigwood Broadway Liotta -- He's still a little old for his league. I'll believe it when he dominates at the higher levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(Heads22 @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 03:37 AM) Where do you put Liotta then? I'm not as high on Liotta as others are. Like Cheat said, age is a factor, but the reasons I'm shaky are... a.)Has given up 11 unearned runs so far. Obviously, not all of them are his fault, but that's still a pretty high number. b.)His K-rates aren't very good. He continues his success at Birmingham, then I'll hop on the bandwagon. Edited August 25, 2005 by CWSGuy406 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heirdog Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 1) BMac 2) Gio Gonzalez 3) Tracey 4) Haigwood 5) Liotta Honorable mention) Broadway, Baj Tracey and Haigwood = Filthy stuff Gio Gonzalez and Liotta = crafty lefty BMac = freak (180 lb. strikeout artist...Pedro-esque) Broadway and Baj = solid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randar68 Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Aug 24, 2005 -> 09:44 PM) I'd put it McCarthy Gio Haigwood Broadway Liotta -- He's still a little old for his league. I'll believe it when he dominates at the higher levels. I still think everyone rates Haigwood too high, but that's just me. His "stuff" doesn't rate in the top 10 in the system, IMO. It's a long-shot for him because of that. Fewer pitchers than ever make it in the pros with sub-90 fastballs. Here's how I rate them in terms of potential and weighing in the realizability of that potential: 1st tier, guys with front-of-the-rotation potential (not aces necessarily) McCarthy Broadway 2nd tier (#3-5 starters or bullpen guys) Gio (lot's of potential, but endurance and pitch-counts keep him from being in the top group, I don't see him as an inning-eater type) Tracey (still think he ends up in the bullpen) Liotta Haigwood Bajenaru Guys who have bounced around but could still be impactful in a bullpen or as an emergency starter: Munoz Diaz Guys who have injury questions but TONS of talent (Frankly, all 4 of these guys have top-of-the-rotation "stuff", but injury and mental aspects affect some of them) Lumsden Malone Honel Whisler Good potential but a long ways away: Russell, Harrell, Richard, Brooks, etc... Could be missing a guy or 2, but overall, I'd rate them: 1) McCarthy 2) Broadway 3) Gio 4) Liotta 5) Tracey 6) Haigwood - still young, and getting results despite mediocre peripherals 7) Bajenaru 8) Lumsden (IMO he'd be minimum top 3 if healthy) 9) Malone - injury/durability questions 10) Honel - same as Malone 11) Whisler (I still think he's about top 5 on potential alone, but who knows if he can stay healthy or improve consistency or the 6-inches between the ears?) 12) Haeger? Knuckleballers are always a wildcard, LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middle Buffalo Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 What ever happened to Lorenzo Barcelo (sp?). I know he had surgery shortly after he was acquired ("white flag" trade, I think). Anyone know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randar68 Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 QUOTE(Middle Buffalo @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 11:18 AM) What ever happened to Lorenzo Barcelo (sp?). I know he had surgery shortly after he was acquired ("white flag" trade, I think). Anyone know? Several surgeries/injuries... no longer with the organization and out of baseball as far as I know. Last surfaced in 2003 with Fresno of the PCL in the Giants organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 QUOTE(heirdog @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 07:57 AM) Tracey and Haigwood = Filthy stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heirdog Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 04:32 PM) Haigwood has some of the filthiest stuff in the organization....according to BMac so I take his word for it over any of us fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randar68 Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(heirdog @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 03:33 PM) Haigwood has some of the filthiest stuff in the organization....according to BMac so I take his word for it over any of us fans. Ahhh yes, the gospel that is a fellow player... Sheeesh. If BMac said the world was flat you'd believe it. "stuff" is the last thing I'd cite to describe Haigwood's success. Edited August 25, 2005 by Randar68 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 I hate to make the comparison, but Haigwood reminds me of Buehrle with a better curveball. No, he doesn't have the 90+ fastball, but neither does MB. While I agree with you that his margin for error is less than a guy with better stuff, I really like what I have seen from him. He really knows how to pitch and his breaking balls are definitely PLUS pitches. Remember Cotts wasn't breaking 90 when he got called up either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBetsy Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 QUOTE(Rex Hudler @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 07:19 PM) I hate to make the comparison, but Haigwood reminds me of Buehrle with a better curveball. No, he doesn't have the 90+ fastball, but neither does MB. While I agree with you that his margin for error is less than a guy with better stuff, I really like what I have seen from him. He really knows how to pitch and his breaking balls are definitely PLUS pitches. Remember Cotts wasn't breaking 90 when he got called up either. Cotts also has a deceptive delivery that makes his fastball look a lot quicker than 90 mph. "Sneaky quick" is how they call it. It's funny how that works. . . I've watched about 15 games from the 2nd row at RFK this year and noticed that deceptiveness in a motion can make a HUGE difference in how quick a pitch looks. I've seen 95 mph fastballs that look slower than 88 mph fastballs because the 95 mph heater came after a long motion where the ball wasn't hidden. Buehrle has a "sneaky quick" fastball like Cotts, although his motion isn't as deceptive. Don't know anything about Haigwood, but he's put up some pretty good numbers...either his breaking balls are very good or there's something more than the radar gun to his FB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randar68 Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 QUOTE(Rex Hudler @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 05:19 PM) I hate to make the comparison, but Haigwood reminds me of Buehrle with a better curveball. No, he doesn't have the 90+ fastball, but neither does MB. While I agree with you that his margin for error is less than a guy with better stuff, I really like what I have seen from him. He really knows how to pitch and his breaking balls are definitely PLUS pitches. Remember Cotts wasn't breaking 90 when he got called up either. The comparison is most relevant due to their "crafty" style of pitching. But recall previous comparisons with Buehrle in Ulacia and Josh Stewart. Cotts was throwing 90-93 in the Future's Game. Buehrle can hit 91 when he needs to. As you know, though, I'm not the biggest fan of the radar gun and hope Haigwood is the exception like Buehrle was. Also take a look back at Buehrle's numbers in the minors. He barely walked anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted August 26, 2005 Author Share Posted August 26, 2005 Even more astounding....according to the Baseball Cube, Buehlre only pitched 36 games in the minors. That can't happen real often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 Stewart and Ulacia do not come close to comparing to Haigwood. Stewart had a nice season here in AA and I believed he had a shot to make the bigs as a fringe (there's that word again) pitcher. Ulacia has not done s*** since 2001 and has never shown the stuff or the moxie Haigwood has. I'm not ready to annoint Haigwood for future Cy Youngs, but I really like this guy's makeup and haven't heard anything but good things. And his stuff, might be better than you think. Many guys add velocity once their arms become conditioned to pitching a full season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randar68 Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 QUOTE(Rex Hudler @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 08:20 PM) I'm not ready to annoint Haigwood for future Cy Youngs, but I really like this guy's makeup and haven't heard anything but good things. And his stuff, might be better than you think. Well, let me ask you this... What else is he throwing these days? Last year, his change was pretty meager and I know he's been working on it. A good curve is hard to get called for a strike consistently at the upper levels and the majors, especially for an unestablished pitcher. How is his change? He's always had a good curve and great instincts. He probably needs to have 3 minimum, 4 probably, good and reliable pitches, IMO, based on what I've seen of him previously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heirdog Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 QUOTE(Randar68 @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 06:43 PM) Ahhh yes, the gospel that is a fellow player... Sheeesh. If BMac said the world was flat you'd believe it. "stuff" is the last thing I'd cite to describe Haigwood's success. You make a good point about what a fellow player says and you're right I should not be so naive as to simply believe it but I don't appreciate the sarcasm. With that said, I would clearly believe our #1 prospect/ major leaguer over some guy with Rib and Rhub as his avatar because at the end the prospect might....just might know a little bit more about pitching. Oh great Randar, is the world not flat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 QUOTE(Randar68 @ Aug 26, 2005 -> 02:24 AM) Well, let me ask you this... What else is he throwing these days? Last year, his change was pretty meager and I know he's been working on it. A good curve is hard to get called for a strike consistently at the upper levels and the majors, especially for an unestablished pitcher. How is his change? He's always had a good curve and great instincts. He probably needs to have 3 minimum, 4 probably, good and reliable pitches, IMO, based on what I've seen of him previously. He threw two different breaking balls. One more of a 12-6/1-7 curve and the other more like a slider with less break. His change is average I'd say. Fastball had pretty good movement and was hard enough to get in on righties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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