Griffey Jr.: 'I'm not going' to the White Sox

[Rowand44]

Rowand, my heart skipped a beat.  I got scared that I got on your bad side...  I'm dead serious... 

LOL, nah, I have a good time debating back and fourth with you on different things.

[TheBigHurt]

I honestly can't understand how Griffey can say "I'm not going" to a first place team which has maintained the best record in baseball most of the year when he's on a s*** team now.

[Kalapse]

I honestly can't understand how Griffey can say "I'm not going" to a first place team which has maintained the best record in baseball most of the year when he's on a s*** team now.

Griff is happy in Cincy, winning isn't everything.

[fathom]

I honestly can't understand how Griffey can say "I'm not going" to a first place team which has maintained the best record in baseball most of the year when he's on a s*** team now.

 

I can, he's comfortable playing in Cincinnati and he gets to spend spring training with his family. I'd love for him to come to Chicago, but Griffey Jr. is by no means the enemy in this situation. He's busted his ass for years, and I'll still root for him no matter what happens.

[RockRaines]

I believe Mark Bellhorn's .328 OBP would rank higher than everyone else on the team besides Podsednik, Iguchi, and Konerko.

but not as good as Walker's .349

[Rowand44]

I can, he's comfortable playing in Cincinnati and he gets to spend spring training with his family.  I'd love for him to come to Chicago, but Griffey Jr. is by no means the enemy in this situation.  He's busted his ass for years, and I'll still root for him no matter what happens.

Right. I feel weird saying this but I guess there are things more important then baseball . Griff is from cinci and I'm sure he's just really comfortable there. I'd love to have griff as well, I'd love to see Jr. win a world series but he has his priorites and baseball obviously isn't number 1.

[RockRaines]

per stats inc

 

Hitting

 

With a short, quick stroke, Walker is an excellent contact hitter with line-drive power. He uses the whole field and was able to take good advantage of Fenway's left-field wall. On the other hand, he is capable of pulling the ball, and also takes good advantage of the hole on the right side when a runner is on first. He remains tough with two strikes. Walker had made progress against lefties in recent years but went backwards last year, and sometimes was rested when a southpaw was on the mound. His career on-base percentage against lefties is just .289, a serious liability for someone who hits near the top of the order.

 

 

Baserunning & Defense

 

Some were pleasantly surprised with Walker's defense last year, but that probably had more to do with his reputation than anything. A bad-glove rep has followed him ever since he lost his job in Minnesota in 2000. He is below average at the keystone, but he's hardly a disaster. He lacks range and fluidity, and he sometimes hurries his throws, but he turns the double play well enough. Walker has pretty good speed but took fewer chances on the bases last year with Boston's big bats coming up behind him.

[RockRaines]

this year walker is batting better against LHP than RHP FYI

[fathom]

Walker has absolutely destroyed lefties this season, considering he's a lefty batter. He'd easily be one of our toughest outs. He doesn't have a lot of range at 2nd baseman....but I wouldn't say Iguchi does either.

[southsideirish71]

per stats inc

 

Hitting

 

With a short, quick stroke, Walker is an excellent contact hitter with line-drive power. He uses the whole field and was able to take good advantage of Fenway's left-field wall. On the other hand, he is capable of pulling the ball, and also takes good advantage of the hole on the right side when a runner is on first. He remains tough with two strikes. Walker had made progress against lefties in recent years but went backwards last year, and sometimes was rested when a southpaw was on the mound. His career on-base percentage against lefties is just .289, a serious liability for someone who hits near the top of the order.

Baserunning & Defense

 

Some were pleasantly surprised with Walker's defense last year, but that probably had more to do with his reputation than anything. A bad-glove rep has followed him ever since he lost his job in Minnesota in 2000. He is below average at the keystone, but he's hardly a disaster. He lacks range and fluidity, and he sometimes hurries his throws, but he turns the double play well enough. Walker has pretty good speed but took fewer chances on the bases last year with Boston's big bats coming up behind him.

 

A left handed line drive hitter who doesnt K is something we need on this team. We have plenty of guys who can jack a homer, but we are missing guys who can get that 2 strike hit with regularity. Walker can hit, and who would you like to have coming off the bench in the playoffs, Walker or Timo.

[CWSGuy406]

Walker gives you someone off the bench who you can depend on for making contact in a big spot.  Bellhorn is about the exact opposite.  Also, Walker's defense is not that bad.  I watch nearly every Cubs game (rooting against them), and his defense is vastly underrated.  His defense is about average, but compared to how much he gets trashed for it, I just don't see the reason why he is.  Not a single GM in baseball would rather have Bellhorn than Walker.

 

Last year, Bellhorn (in 124 games at 2B) had a ZR of .843. This year, in 82 games as a 2B, he's had a ZR of .817.

 

In 2003, playing 139 games for Boston, Walker had a .788 ZR. In 89 games at 2B in 2004, he had an .824 ZR. In 2005, in 72 games, he's had a ZR of .830.

 

For some reason, I can only access Mark Bellhorn's PECOTA page on Baseball Prospectus, but last year, they have Bellhorn as five runs worse than the average 2B-man.

 

Tango Tiger's Scouting Report: By The Fans, For the Fans has Walker below average in each of the seven categories. Meanwhile, it has Bellhorn as just about average in each of the seven categories.

 

I'm not going to act like I know he's better -- because I don't. But, I find it absolutely histerical that you KNOW that Walker is underrated defensively, and that you KNOW that Bellhorn is below average defensively.

 

It's a joke, really...

 

but not as good as Walker's .349

 

Difference being, in a couple of days, Bellhorn will come free. Walker will cost a pretty good prospect, IMO.

Edited August 29, 2005 by CWSGuy406

[RockRaines]

A left handed line drive hitter who doesnt K is something we need on this team.  We have plenty of guys who can jack a homer, but we are missing guys who can get that 2 strike hit with regularity.  Walker can hit, and who would you like to have coming off the bench in the playoffs, Walker or Timo.

hmmm, thats a toughy. .300 hitter or a .214 hitter?

[Guest JimH]

Has there been some speculation the Cubs would move Todd Walker to the White Sox, or was it strictly the Cleveland rumor?

 

Walker can hit, no doubt about that.

[fathom]

I'm not going to act like I know he's better -- because I don't.  But, I find it absolutely histerical that you KNOW that Walker is underrated defensively, and that you KNOW that Bellhorn is below average defensively.

 

 

People talk about Todd Walker like he's the worst infielder ever. I was simply saying that he wasn't that bad, and you can have him in the field and not get worried about every ball hit at him. It's not like he's the 2nd base version of Ozuna at 3rd base. Sometimes, you have to step back from the statistics and just judge guys with your own eyes. I bet you could find some statistics that say Pods is a good outfielder...when he's not. This team doesn't need a good defensive infielder....we need hitting, especially from the left side. I know this....I'd much rather have the Sox pitching face Jeff Liefer off the bench instead of Todd Walker.

[southsideirish71]

Has there been some speculation the Cubs would move Todd Walker to the White Sox, or was it strictly the Cleveland rumor?

 

Walker can hit, no doubt about that.

 

 

Just the dreams of some fans on a board right now. The only things so far is a comment by Todd Walker that he expects to be traded that I heard over the weekend, and the Cleveland rumor.

[fathom]

Just the dreams of some fans on a board right now.  The only things so far is a comment by Todd Walker that he expects to be traded that I heard over the weekend, and the Cleveland rumor.

 

But..but..but....where would he play on Cleveland? They have Belliard at 2nd base already, and a terrific DH in Hafner. Oh, that's right.....it's called stacking your roster.

[jackie hayes]

He's busted his ass for years...

Meaning he tries hard, or he's broken every year?

[southsideirish71]

But..but..but....where would he play on Cleveland?  They have Belliard at 2nd base already, and a terrific DH in Hafner.  Oh, that's right.....it's called stacking your roster.

 

 

It would make sense for a team to get a bat like Todd Walkers. He would boost our bench and give us a great bat off the bench late in a game. Plus protection if any injuries happen to our MVP.

[Steve9347]

Has Todd Walker ever played third base?

[CWSGuy406]

People talk about Todd Walker like he's the worst infielder ever.  I was simply saying that he wasn't that bad, and you can have him in the field and not get worried about every ball hit at him.  It's not like he's the 2nd base version of Ozuna at 3rd base.  Sometimes, you have to step back from the statistics and just judge guys with your own eyes.  I bet you could find some statistics that say Pods is a good outfielder...when he's not.  This team doesn't need a good defensive infielder....we need hitting, especially from the left side.  I know this....I'd much rather have the Sox pitching face Jeff Liefer off the bench instead of Todd Walker.

 

Ok -- so, the fans scouting report ALSO said he was a bad defender.

 

But no -- fathom's eyes says he's underrated, so that must be true. :banghead :rolly

[3E8]

Its amazing how many people were hoping the Sox signed Walker last winter, and not wanting him at all right now, and he has a higher average than anyone on the White Sox.

I remember getting lambasted for wanting the Sox to sign Grudzielanek.

[fathom]

Ok -- so, the fans scouting report ALSO said he was a bad defender. 

 

But no -- fathom's eyes says he's underrated, so that must be true.  :banghead  :rolly

 

Give it a break. I never said he was a good defender, but he's not nearly as bad as his reputation would lead you to believe. I watch enough baseball to know which fielders are good and which ones are bad. Walker is very comparable to Iguchi in my book, with Iguchi being better turning the double play. Both guys are poor going up the middle, and have very little range on pop ups. I do love when people attack certain posters though out of habit, instead of actually trying to grasp their view point.

[CWSGuy406]

Give it a break.  I never said he was a good defender, but he's not nearly as bad as his reputation would lead you to believe.  I watch enough baseball to know which fielders are good and which ones are bad.  Walker is very comparable to Iguchi in my book, with Iguchi being better turning the double play.  Both guys are poor going up the middle, and have very little range on pop ups.  I do love when people attack certain posters though out of habit, instead of actually trying to grasp their view point.

 

Grasp your viewpoint?

 

Stats say Walker is a bad defender.

 

The people who see Walker play more than you do say he's a bad defender.

 

Stats say Mark Bellhorn is not much worse -- if at all -- than Walker defensively.

 

The people who see Mark Bellhorn play on a regular basis say that he's average defensively, which is a better grade than Walker got.

 

Attacking a poster? I'm attacking your flawed argument, which is coming from the base of -- "I know which players are good defenders, I can see that with my eyes".

 

I'm using defensive stats, and the opinions of several others who say you're wrong.

[fathom]

Grasp your viewpoint?

 

Stats say Walker is a bad defender.

 

The people who see Walker play more than you do say he's a bad defender. 

 

Stats say Mark Bellhorn is not much worse -- if at all -- than Walker defensively. 

 

The people who see Mark Bellhorn play on a regular basis say that he's average defensively, which is a better grade than Walker got.

 

Attacking a poster?  I'm attacking your flawed argument, which is coming from the base of -- "I know which players are good defenders, I can see that with my eyes".

 

I'm using defensive stats, and the opinions of several others who say you're wrong.

 

I never said Walker was a good defensive player. I would say that Walker and Bellhorn are comparable defenders at 2nd base, with not a huge difference devensively. However, there's a huge difference between the two in regards to hitting, especially with the attributes that the Sox need. If we needed a defensive 2nd baseman....I would pass on both of these players. Walkers has produced this season, Bellhorn hasn't.

Edited August 29, 2005 by fathom

[redandwhite]

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 09:42 PM)

the team needs hitting, Bellhorn hits about as well as my girlfriend.

 

Walker's offense is far superior to Bellhorns. I understnad your RSN lovefest with Bellhorn, but come on now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Todd Walker is a former Red Sox, just like Mark Bellhorn. This isn't any Red Sox Nation lovefest here, or anywhere for that matter.