Hurricane Katrina

[Steff]

Mike, try the feed now. he did something to it and it's working.

[Middle Buffalo]

Apparently they knew anything stronger than a 3 would do serious damage.

 

I'm sorry.. I don't have any more answers than anyone else, just tossing stuff out there. I can't imagine they sat around and said "hey.. we know they aint gonna hold, but oh well..." The bottom line is that NO and the levies were not a priority for the boys in Washington. It's useless to point fingers at this point.. but if they need to be pointed, they should be pointed in the right direction.

There was a special on ABC (i think - Elizabeth Vargas?) and they had a soldier from the Army who helped design the levees. He said that when they built the levees to withstand a level 3 hurricane, they did cost analysis and figured that that would be enough. A levee system able to withstand level 5 hurricanes was possible, but not deemed to be cost efficient. I'm pretty sure the analysis was wrong.

[Reddy]

tex listen to this:

 

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/katrina.nagin/index.html

 

listen to the link

 

i think this guy will know whether there are ppl helping more than you would (not to be taken offensively) but i'm just saying that to downplay the seriousness of the situation is foolish

[FlaSoxxJim]

With the age of those levees, there was a strong chance of failure, they had to be prepared.  Considering what is going on, they didn't even think about this potential disaster once.

Above and beyond that, As wino noted some of the levees were only 80% completed. And the real kicker, which I just found out with today's Times-Picayune summary coverage: The levee system was only designed to withstand a direct hit from a Category 3 storm.

 

Un-f***ing-real.

[Steff]

Reddy.. I agree. The blog I am reading and the camera I am watching indicates way more then just a "few" looters.

[Steff]

Un-f***ing-real.

 

 

 

You can say that again.

[FlaSoxxJim]

He said that when they built the levees to withstand a level 3 hurricane, they did cost analysis and figured that that would be enough.

Ach, I should have read ahead before posting redundant info.

[LosMediasBlancas]

Ha, just wait for the political s***storm as people begin to wonder what we'd do in case of another major terrorist attack? You think these people have gone nuts? Wait til the next disater of any kind, think will people have faith in Gov. to help them out. Hopefully, from now on people leave, if they can, when asked to.

[Texsox]

tex listen to this:

 

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/katrina.nagin/index.html

 

listen to the link

 

i think this guy will know whether there are ppl helping more than you would (not to be taken offensively) but i'm just saying that to downplay the seriousness of the situation is foolish

I'm not certain which comment this came from. Looking across the region, from San Antonio eastward, there are organizations after organizations trying their best to offer aid and comfort. I know of a convoy that left here two days ago loaded with portable cook stations fueled by propane, to help where they could. Basically they left without a destination, and a phone bank of volunteers calling to see where they should go. They are heading to Dallas and possibly into LA.

 

The looters get on the 5:00 news, but there are far more angels than devils.

[southsider2k5]

I'm not certain which comment this came from. Looking across the region, from San Antonio eastward, there are organizations after organizations trying their best to offer aid and comfort. I know of a convoy that left here two days ago loaded with portable cook stations fueled by propane, to help where they could. Basically they left without a destination, and a phone bank of volunteers calling to see where they should go. They are heading to Dallas and possibly into LA.

 

The looters get on the 5:00 news, but there are far more angels than devils.

 

Its just like anything. The rioters are more sexy for 24 hour news than the generous. Its a sad statement on our society today.

[FlaSoxxJim]

Ha, just wait for the political s***storm as people begin to wonder what we'd do in case of another major terrorist attack? You think these people have gone nuts? Wait til the next disater of any kind, think will people have faith in Gov. to help them out. Hopefully, from now on people leave, if they can, when asked to.

Not only that, but just imagine the would-be terrorists that now know how easy it is to knock out NO. Breach a couple of sections of the miles and miles of levee with small bombs (or possibly even something like hijacked garbage trucks plowing ito it) during the rainy season when they're running high and it's this situation all over again. Except without the advance notice to evacuate.

 

You can see the kind of dark place I'm at right now, eh?

[Reddy]

guys what the hell? ok fine maybe their are FEWER bad guys than good, but it's still a disgusting and horrible situation where there are bands of men driving around in trucks with f***ING AK-47s shooting at police and choppers. there are boddies riddled with bullet holes, ppl with their heads shot off.

 

i cant believe you guys are treating it like it's just another news story

 

edit: can ya tell im in that dark place too right now?

Edited September 2, 2005 by Reddy

[Steff]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9164073/

 

MSNBC article about Michael and the blog I've been keeping up with.

 

A quote from Mike..

 

"It is a zoo out there though, make no mistake. Anyone who is on the streets is in immediate danger of being robbed and killed. It's that bad."

[Texsox]

guys what the hell?  ok fine maybe their are FEWER bad guys than good, but it's still a disgusting and horrible situation where there are bands of men driving around in trucks with f***ING AK-47s shooting at police and choppers.  there are boddies riddled with bullet holes, ppl with their heads shot off.

 

i cant believe you guys are treating it like it's just another news story

 

edit: can ya tell im in that dark place too right now?

 

Just another news story? I am not. What I do know, as someone that puts a lot of hours in every year as a volunteer, that during a crisis, volunteers are everywhere and doing a hell of a lot more than posting on a message board.

 

What you have decided to block out are the individuals that have opened their homes to shelter people. People who have taken in strangers and given them rides. People sharing their resources. Those stories are as much about this as the criminals. And I don't think I have to remind anyone here that those same crimes happened in NO before the hurricane. People were getting killed, drugs deals, stealing. That's happening in Chicago tonight.

 

National Geographic had this one pegged a long time ago.

[Heads22]

I just heard Nagin's comments on CNN. WOW

[fathom]

I just heard Nagin's comments on CNN. WOW

 

That was fantastic. I wasn't paying attention to the television....but that really made me stop what I was doing and listen.

[Reddy]

Just another news story? I am not. What I do know, as someone that puts a lot of hours in every year as a volunteer, that during a crisis, volunteers are everywhere and doing a hell of a lot more than posting on a message board.

 

What you have decided to block out are the individuals that have opened their homes to shelter people. People who have taken in strangers and given them rides. People sharing their resources. Those stories are as much about this as the criminals. And I don't think I have to remind anyone here that those same crimes happened in NO before the hurricane. People were getting killed, drugs deals, stealing. That's happening in Chicago tonight.

 

National Geographic had this one pegged a long time ago.

 

dude, my school, Loyola Chicago - is opening its doors to students from Loyola New Orleans. they'll be sleeping in my dorm. i'm not blocking that s*** out I'M DOING IT.

[whitesoxfan99]

National Geographic had this one pegged a long time ago.

 

FEMA had a hurricane hitting NO as one of the three biggest threats to our country back in 2001. The others were an earthquake in San Francisco and a terrorist attack in NYC. Two of the three have taken place since their report.

[Kid Gleason]

Plus you have to remember that one bad guy with a gun can bring a lot more pain to people than a group of people doing good. Now get 20 REAL bad guys with guns, and lets just say machine guns, and you have a TON of trouble going on down there, and all indications point to it being more than 20 people. So figure 100 people with guns, running around with anarchy going, raping and pillaging, and that is a REAL bad time.

[southsider2k5]

The US is releasing 30 million barrels of crude from the reserves, and the IEA is releasing 60 million barrels of crude and gasoline over the next month. Energy prices came way down today.

Edited September 2, 2005 by southsider2k5

[Heads22]

That was fantastic.  I wasn't paying attention to the television....but that really made me stop what I was doing and listen.

 

 

"Get off your goddamn asses."

[Texsox]

dude, my school, Loyola Chicago - is opening its doors to students from Loyola New Orleans.  they'll be sleeping in my dorm.  i'm not blocking that s*** out I'M DOING IT.

 

 

And if I posted that you would have said

guys what the hell? ok fine maybe their are FEWER bad guys than good, but it's still a disgusting and horrible situation

so WTF?

[LosMediasBlancas]

I just heard Nagin's comments on CNN. WOW

 

What'd he say??

[Heads22]

Mayor to feds: 'Get off your asses'

Transcript of radio interview with New Orleans' Nagin

 

 

Friday, September 2, 2005; Posted: 11:49 a.m. EDT (15:49 GMT)

 

New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin speaks Saturday, before Hurricane Katrina's devastation.

 

 

(CNN) -- New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin blasted the slow pace of federal and state relief efforts in an expletive-laced interview with local radio station WWL-AM.

 

The following is a transcript of WWL correspondent Garland Robinette's interview with Nagin on Thursday night. Robinette asked the mayor about his conversation with President Bush:

 

NAGIN: I told him we had an incredible crisis here and that his flying over in Air Force One does not do it justice. And that I have been all around this city, and I am very frustrated because we are not able to marshal resources and we're outmanned in just about every respect. (Listen to the mayor express his frustration in this video -- 12:09)

 

You know the reason why the looters got out of control? Because we had most of our resources saving people, thousands of people that were stuck in attics, man, old ladies. ... You pull off the doggone ventilator vent and you look down there and they're standing in there in water up to their freaking necks.

 

And they don't have a clue what's going on down here. They flew down here one time two days after the doggone event was over with TV cameras, AP reporters, all kind of goddamn -- excuse my French everybody in America, but I am pissed.

 

WWL: Did you say to the president of the United States, "I need the military in here"?

 

NAGIN: I said, "I need everything."

 

Now, I will tell you this -- and I give the president some credit on this -- he sent one John Wayne dude down here that can get some stuff done, and his name is [Lt.] Gen. [Russel] Honore.

 

And he came off the doggone chopper, and he started cussing and people started moving. And he's getting some stuff done.

 

They ought to give that guy -- if they don't want to give it to me, give him full authority to get the job done, and we can save some people.

 

WWL: What do you need right now to get control of this situation?

 

NAGIN: I need reinforcements, I need troops, man. I need 500 buses, man. We ain't talking about -- you know, one of the briefings we had, they were talking about getting public school bus drivers to come down here and bus people out here.

 

I'm like, "You got to be kidding me. This is a national disaster. Get every doggone Greyhound bus line in the country and get their asses moving to New Orleans."

 

That's -- they're thinking small, man. And this is a major, major, major deal. And I can't emphasize it enough, man. This is crazy.

 

I've got 15,000 to 20,000 people over at the convention center. It's bursting at the seams. The poor people in Plaquemines Parish. ... We don't have anything, and we're sharing with our brothers in Plaquemines Parish.

 

It's awful down here, man.

 

WWL: Do you believe that the president is seeing this, holding a news conference on it but can't do anything until [Louisiana Gov.] Kathleen Blanco requested him to do it? And do you know whether or not she has made that request?

 

NAGIN: I have no idea what they're doing. But I will tell you this: You know, God is looking down on all this, and if they are not doing everything in their power to save people, they are going to pay the price. Because every day that we delay, people are dying and they're dying by the hundreds, I'm willing to bet you.

 

We're getting reports and calls that are breaking my heart, from people saying, "I've been in my attic. I can't take it anymore. The water is up to my neck. I don't think I can hold out." And that's happening as we speak.

 

You know what really upsets me, Garland? We told everybody the importance of the 17th Street Canal issue. We said, "Please, please take care of this. We don't care what you do. Figure it out."

 

WWL: Who'd you say that to?

 

NAGIN: Everybody: the governor, Homeland Security, FEMA. You name it, we said it.

 

And they allowed that pumping station next to Pumping Station 6 to go under water. Our sewage and water board people ... stayed there and endangered their lives.

 

And what happened when that pumping station went down, the water started flowing again in the city, and it starting getting to levels that probably killed more people.

 

In addition to that, we had water flowing through the pipes in the city. That's a power station over there.

 

So there's no water flowing anywhere on the east bank of Orleans Parish. So our critical water supply was destroyed because of lack of action.

 

WWL: Why couldn't they drop the 3,000-pound sandbags or the containers that they were talking about earlier? Was it an engineering feat that just couldn't be done?

 

NAGIN: They said it was some pulleys that they had to manufacture. But, you know, in a state of emergency, man, you are creative, you figure out ways to get stuff done.

 

Then they told me that they went overnight, and they built 17 concrete structures and they had the pulleys on them and they were going to drop them.

 

I flew over that thing yesterday, and it's in the same shape that it was after the storm hit. There is nothing happening. And they're feeding the public a line of bull and they're spinning, and people are dying down here.

 

WWL: If some of the public called and they're right, that there's a law that the president, that the federal government can't do anything without local or state requests, would you request martial law?

 

NAGIN: I've already called for martial law in the city of New Orleans. We did that a few days ago.

 

WWL: Did the governor do that, too?

 

NAGIN: I don't know. I don't think so.

 

But we called for martial law when we realized that the looting was getting out of control. And we redirected all of our police officers back to patrolling the streets. They were dead-tired from saving people, but they worked all night because we thought this thing was going to blow wide open last night. And so we redirected all of our resources, and we hold it under check.

 

I'm not sure if we can do that another night with the current resources.

 

And I am telling you right now: They're showing all these reports of people looting and doing all that weird stuff, and they are doing that, but people are desperate and they're trying to find food and water, the majority of them.

 

Now you got some knuckleheads out there, and they are taking advantage of this lawless -- this situation where, you know, we can't really control it, and they're doing some awful, awful things. But that's a small majority of the people. Most people are looking to try and survive.

 

And one of the things people -- nobody's talked about this. Drugs flowed in and out of New Orleans and the surrounding metropolitan area so freely it was scary to me, and that's why we were having the escalation in murders. People don't want to talk about this, but I'm going to talk about it.

 

You have drug addicts that are now walking around this city looking for a fix, and that's the reason why they were breaking in hospitals and drugstores. They're looking for something to take the edge off of their jones, if you will.

 

And right now, they don't have anything to take the edge off. And they've probably found guns. So what you're seeing is drug-starving crazy addicts, drug addicts, that are wrecking havoc. And we don't have the manpower to adequately deal with it. We can only target certain sections of the city and form a perimeter around them and hope to God that we're not overrun.

 

WWL: Well, you and I must be in the minority. Because apparently there's a section of our citizenry out there that thinks because of a law that says the federal government can't come in unless requested by the proper people, that everything that's going on to this point has been done as good as it can possibly be.

 

NAGIN: Really?

 

WWL: I know you don't feel that way.

 

NAGIN: Well, did the tsunami victims request? Did it go through a formal process to request?

 

You know, did the Iraqi people request that we go in there? Did they ask us to go in there? What is more important?

 

And I'll tell you, man, I'm probably going get in a whole bunch of trouble. I'm probably going to get in so much trouble it ain't even funny. You probably won't even want to deal with me after this interview is over.

 

WWL: You and I will be in the funny place together.

 

NAGIN: But we authorized $8 billion to go to Iraq lickety-quick. After 9/11, we gave the president unprecedented powers lickety-quick to take care of New York and other places.

 

Now, you mean to tell me that a place where most of your oil is coming through, a place that is so unique when you mention New Orleans anywhere around the world, everybody's eyes light up -- you mean to tell me that a place where you probably have thousands of people that have died and thousands more that are dying every day, that we can't figure out a way to authorize the resources that we need? Come on, man.

 

You know, I'm not one of those drug addicts. I am thinking very clearly.

 

And I don't know whose problem it is. I don't know whether it's the governor's problem. I don't know whether it's the president's problem, but somebody needs to get their ass on a plane and sit down, the two of them, and figure this out right now.

 

WWL: What can we do here?

 

NAGIN: Keep talking about it.

 

WWL: We'll do that. What else can we do?

 

NAGIN: Organize people to write letters and make calls to their congressmen, to the president, to the governor. Flood their doggone offices with requests to do something. This is ridiculous.

 

I don't want to see anybody do anymore goddamn press conferences. Put a moratorium on press conferences. Don't do another press conference until the resources are in this city. And then come down to this city and stand with us when there are military trucks and troops that we can't even count.

 

Don't tell me 40,000 people are coming here. They're not here. It's too doggone late. Now get off your asses and do something, and let's fix the biggest goddamn crisis in the history of this country.

 

WWL: I'll say it right now, you're the only politician that's called and called for arms like this. And if -- whatever it takes, the governor, president -- whatever law precedent it takes, whatever it takes, I bet that the people listening to you are on your side.

 

NAGIN: Well, I hope so, Garland. I am just -- I'm at the point now where it don't matter. People are dying. They don't have homes. They don't have jobs. The city of New Orleans will never be the same in this time.

 

WWL: We're both pretty speechless here.

 

NAGIN: Yeah, I don't know what to say. I got to go.

 

WWL: OK. Keep in touch. Keep in touch.

[Reddy]

And if I posted that you would have said

so WTF?

 

not true man, it just seems to me that you've been trying to downplay the seriousness of whats going on down there. and you have been - saying that killing etc happens anyway. i'm pretty sure ANARCHY doesnt happen on a regular basis in NO

Edited September 2, 2005 by Reddy