Hurricane Katrina

[KipWellsFan]

bmags and reddy are officially part of the radical left

[Texsox]

bmags and reddy are officially part of the radical left

 

I'll move over, we can always make a little more room

[LosMediasBlancas]

To say race was a factor in poor response time cannot be proven and therefore an ignorant thing to say. To say federal response was adequate or timley is also clearly wrong.

 

Here's a local angle from Daley:

http://www.suntimes.com/output/hurricane/c...ws-daley03.html

[Reddy]

bmags and reddy are officially part of the radical left

 

not sure exactly how that works but ok, if it makes you feel better

 

[Steff]

i've given what little money i have to the red cross...and i still think that bush did a s*** job and that the lower income status of most of the people stranded is a reason tehy didn't get as much help...

so what the f*** does that make me?

 

 

Count us in this club as well. We donated blood this morning and nearly half a mortgage payment. But we, especially Jim who's a serious republican, are questioning GDub's actions - or lack there of - on this one.

[Texsox]

All I can say for certainty is this was not our finest hour in responding to people in need. It seems like everyone was stunned at first. As much as I dislike Presidential grandstanding and photo ops, Bush needed to be visible and displaying some of the confidence we've seen in other situations. For whatever reason, and we can argue those reasons forever, he just doesn't seem interested.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Nuke, I fail to see how video links to CNN and Fox News (and links to journals like American Prospect and Salon) are "leftist conspiracy web sites".

 

The government, the governor, FEMA et. al. knew in 2002 that the majority of people in NO would have to get out using an untested emergency evacuation system since they are too poor to have cars etc. THEY DIDN'T EVEN TEST THE SYSTEM TO SEE IF IT COULD WORK. Congress gutted FEMA, didn't reinforce levees despite clamoring for it to be done and waited days to get any substantial response to the area. It was gross bipartisan incompetence. It is terrible mismanagement that has made the already devastating hurricane much worse than it already was.

[Balta1701]

I agree, there will plenty of time for finger pointing later. Meanwhile, reporters have gotten in and out, politicians have gotten in and out, Hollywood starst have gotten in and out and now even the military is getting in and out, but N.O. residents are still stranded there, dying.

Had people not immediately started pointing fingers at the people directly responsible for the insanely poor response (Chertoff, Brown, Bush)...those people may very well have been less likely to actually get off their hands and do anything other than tell us how well things have been going.

[Balta1701]

Nuke, I fail to see how video links to CNN and Fox News (and links to journals like American Prospect and Salon) are "leftist conspiracy web sites".

 

The government, the governor, FEMA et. al. knew in 2002 that the majority of people in NO would have to get out using an untested emergency evacuation system since they are too poor to have cars etc.  THEY DIDN'T EVEN TEST THE SYSTEM TO SEE IF IT COULD WORK.  Congress gutted FEMA, didn't reinforce levees despite clamoring for it to be done and waited days to get any substantial response to the area.  It was gross bipartisan incompetence.  It is terrible mismanagement that has made the already devastating hurricane much worse than it already was.

LCR...the professor on the field trip I just returned from made it a point to visit New Orleans earlier this year...on the grounds that he didn't think it was going to be there much longer. I'm not making this up. This was one of those things that everyone just knew was coming, but that the people at the top were too preoccupied to prepare for.

[HighHeat45]

Outside of the store where i work, this group of women started a small drive to collect stuff for hurricane relief and it was 100 times better than they expected. People where coming in and buying hundreds of dollars worth of diapers, soap, water etc. for the people it was crazy .It was very nice to see.

[Balta1701]

From a press release from Senator Mary Landreiu...

 

But perhaps the greatest disappointment stands at the breached 17th Street levee. Touring this critical site yesterday with the President, I saw what I believed to be a real and significant effort to get a handle on a major cause of this catastrophe. Flying over this critical spot again this morning, less than 24 hours later, it became apparent that yesterday we witnessed a hastily prepared stage set for a Presidential photo opportunity; and the desperately needed resources we saw were this morning reduced to a single, lonely piece of equipment. The good and decent people of southeast Louisiana and the Gulf Coast - black and white, rich and poor, young and old - deserve far better from their national government.

[EvilMonkey]

From a press release from Senator Mary Landreiu...

The people deserved better from their local government. What were their emergency plans? Wait for the feds to bail them out? Why wasn't the city evacuated? Why are their pictures of hundreds of school busses sitting in flooded parking lots, when those same busses could have been rented, or otherwise used, by the LOCAL governing bodies to take all the people out who supposedly couldn't get out on thier own? And just a thought, if you are 'too poor to leave', why can't you just walk away? I mean, what would you be leaving behind?

[whitesoxfan99]

And just a thought, if you are 'too poor to leave', why can't you just walk away?  I mean, what would you be leaving behind?

 

And where would you like them to stay, what would you like them to eat.

[EvilMonkey]

And where would you like them to stay, what would you like them to eat.

Wouldn't almost any OTHER situation be better than stranded on the roof of a house, or wading waiste deep if filthy water? Worry about your life first, then the rest. If you are dead, food just doesn't seem to matter much.

[SnB]

Outside of the store where i work, this group of women started a small drive to collect stuff for hurricane relief and it was 100 times better than they expected. People where coming in and buying hundreds of dollars worth of diapers, soap, water etc. for the people it was crazy .It was very nice to see.

[Rex Kickass]

The people deserved better from their local government.  What were their emergency plans?  Wait for the feds to bail them out?  Why wasn't the city evacuated?  Why are their pictures of hundreds of school busses sitting in flooded parking lots, when those same busses could have been rented, or otherwise used, by the LOCAL governing bodies to take all the people out who supposedly couldn't get out on thier own?  And just a thought, if you are 'too poor to leave', why can't you just walk away?  I mean, what would you be leaving behind?

 

I'm not saying you're wrong but the primary responsibility for an evacuation of a federal disaster area lies with FEMA.

 

And being too poor to leave means walking 60 miles in 24 hours to relative safety. Is that something you could have done?

[EvilMonkey]

I'm not saying you're wrong but the primary responsibility for an evacuation of a federal disaster area lies with FEMA.

 

And being too poor to leave means walking 60 miles in 24 hours to relative safety. Is that something you could have done?

 

Blame Terry Ebbert, head of NO Emergency Operations. I believe there WAS an evacuation ordered.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/0...flpc21109012015

Here is a link that shows about 200 school buses that COULD have been used to get the poor people out of town. The mayor odered everyone to evacuate, then didn't help them do so. SOunds alot like an unfunded mandate. Yet AFTER the hurricane, you have the mayor pleading for people to send busses. Well MR. Mayor, you just let 200 busses get flooded because your Emergency Response person, that you personally appointed, f***ed up. I am sure that NO also had public transportation system, which included BUSES. Why were they not used to ferry out the poor? Again, because LOCAL people in charge screwed up. These people should have been out of town before the hurricane hit.

 

Here is a link that has a quote from the supposed leader of NO emergency management.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/09/01/D8CBPBCG0.html

The quote I am referring to is this one:

"This is a national disgrace. FEMA has been here three days, yet there is no command and control," Ebbert said. "We can send massive amounts of aid to tsunami victims, but we can't bail out the city of New Orleans

Now, I am not saying FIMA didn't screw up. Blame willgo a long way here over alot of people and agencies. HOWEVER, why didn't Mr. Ebbert step up and take control? It seems like he was just prepared to sit there and let hings happen as they may. If he had any balls not swept away by the hurricane, he would have tried to assert some control. However, since he didn't seem to know what to do BEFORE the hurricane, I guess asking him to assert leadership AFTER the fact would be a bit much.

 

Oh, and FYI, they had at least 48 hours notice that NO WAS going to be hit hard. At 72 hours out they were given a 70% chance to get hit hard.

[Texsox]

I'm not saying you're wrong but the primary responsibility for an evacuation of a federal disaster area lies with FEMA.

 

And being too poor to leave means walking 60 miles in 24 hours to relative safety. Is that something you could have done?

 

Looking at the maps, more than 60 miles and into spun off tornadoes. Looking at the survival hierarchy, shelter and the ability to regulate your body temperature is #1 after stopping bleeding, etc. Leaving shelter to head out into an impending storm, may not be the smartest move either. Riding it out in your home may be smarter in some situations. With the hindsight of the levees breaking, it was not.

 

Putting it into local terms, if a hurricane is about to hit, walking from Chicago to Rosemont, with the probability of tornadoes, doesn't seem like the obvious or safest path.

[Texsox]

Sen. Bill Frist

 

Sen. Frist Becomes Medical Volunteer

Sep 03 9:32 PM US/Eastern

 

 

By JONATHAN M. KATZ

Associated Press Writer

 

WASHINGTON

 

Bill Frist took off his senator's coat on Saturday and flew for New Orleans as a medical volunteer. But what he found among the thousands needing treatment from Hurricane Katrina was a rescue effort in chaos: patients sleeping on luggage conveyors, teams of nurses who didn't know each other's names and a total communication breakdown.

 

"In the airport right now there is no communication between one unit and another," said Frist, R-Tenn., the Senate's majority leader and a surgeon.

 

"No coordination with how many people will be coming in the door 10 minutes later," he told The Associated Press. "That's sort of the most disappointing thing. It's probably the greatest failure."

 

Frist left Washington around 4:30 a.m. Saturday on his private plane. He spent most of the day helping to treat thousands of victims at Louis Armstrong International Airport and the New Orleans Convention Center.

 

He spoke by phone from a helicopter shuttling him between the two, taking a 45-minute tour above the flooded streets of downtown.

 

Frist also said the federal government had acted too slowly in dealing with the hurricane's aftermath.

 

"Given the escalation of catastrophe that occurred over the first three days, absolutely I would have liked to see the federal government respond quicker, more rapidly, with better command and control centers and much improved communication," Frist said.

 

"I'm not going to get into finger-pointing now. I did call for oversight hearings _ I wouldn't have done that if I weren't concerned. We've got to do better."

 

The senator spent the day treating diabetics for low blood sugar and dealing with cases of high blood pressure and dehydration. Though he is a surgeon by training, there was no need to perform surgery on Saturday, he said.

 

After overnighting in Nashville, Tenn., following his day in New Orleans, Frist planned to return to the Gulf Coast on Sunday to work in storm-ravaged areas of Mississippi and Alabama, as well as returning with supplies to New Orleans.

 

He plans to be back in Washington by the time the Senate reconvenes on Tuesday. He said the confirmation hearings for Supreme Court nominee John Roberts will go forward as planned.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Sen. Bill Frist   

 

 

Thats a great American right there. Way to lead by example!!!!

 

 

[Texsox]

I was thinking it would be nice if more Senators volunteered their professional services, then I remembered most are attorneys

[KipWellsFan]

Blame Terry Ebbert, head of NO Emergency Operations.  I believe there WAS an evacuation ordered. 

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/0...flpc21109012015

Here is a link that shows about 200 school buses that COULD have been used to get the poor people out of town.  The mayor odered everyone to evacuate, then didn't help them do so.  SOunds alot like an unfunded mandate.  Yet AFTER the hurricane, you have the mayor pleading for people to send busses.  Well MR. Mayor, you just let 200 busses get flooded because your Emergency Response person, that you personally appointed, f***ed up.  I am sure that NO also had public transportation system, which included BUSES.  Why were they not used to ferry out the poor?  Again, because LOCAL people in charge screwed up.  These people should have been out of town before the hurricane hit. 

 

Louisiana disaster plan, pg 13, para 5 , dated 01/00

 

'The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating'...

http://www.drudgereport.com/

[EvilMonkey]

I was thinking it would be nice if more Senators volunteered their professional services, then I remembered most are attorneys 

Maybe they can be used to sue God, or Mother Nature? After all, Jessie Jr. wants Bush to stand on a pile of rubble, and say to God, we know you did this, and we are holding you accountable!

[KipWellsFan]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/04/opinion/...agewanted=print

 

And the key fact to understanding why this is such a huge cultural moment is this: Last week's national humiliation comes at the end of a string of confidence-shaking institutional failures that have cumulatively changed the nation's psyche.

 

Over the past few years, we have seen intelligence failures in the inability to prevent Sept. 11 and find W.M.D.'s in Iraq. We have seen incompetent postwar planning. We have seen the collapse of Enron and corruption scandals on Wall Street. We have seen scandals at our leading magazines and newspapers, steroids in baseball, the horror of Abu Ghraib.

 

Public confidence has been shaken too by the steady rain of suicide bombings, the grisly horror of Beslan and the world's inability to do anything about rising oil prices.

 

Each institutional failure and sign of helplessness is another blow to national morale. The sour mood builds on itself, the outraged and defensive reaction to one event serving as the emotional groundwork for the next.

 

The scrapbook of history accords but a few pages to each decade, and it is already clear that the pages devoted to this one will be grisly. There will be pictures of bodies falling from the twin towers, beheaded kidnapping victims in Iraq and corpses still floating in the waterways of New Orleans five days after the disaster that caused them.

 

It's already clear this will be known as the grueling decade, the Hobbesian decade. Americans have had to acknowledge dark realities that it is not in our nature to readily acknowledge: the thin veneer of civilization, the elemental violence in human nature, the lurking ferocity of the environment, the limitations on what we can plan and know, the cumbersome reactions of bureaucracies, the uncertain progress good makes over evil.

 

As a result, it is beginning to feel a bit like the 1970's, another decade in which people lost faith in their institutions and lost a sense of confidence about the future.

 

"Rats on the West Side, bedbugs uptown/What a mess! This town's in tatters/I've been shattered," Mick Jagger sang in 1978.

 

Midge Decter woke up the morning after the night of looting during the New York blackout of 1977 feeling as if she had "been given a sudden glimpse into the foundations of one's house and seen, with horror, that it was utterly infested and rotting away."

 

Americans in 2005 are not quite in that bad a shape, since the fundamental realities of everyday life are good. The economy and the moral culture are strong. But there is a loss of confidence in institutions. In case after case there has been a failure of administration, of sheer competence. Hence, polls show a widespread feeling the country is headed in the wrong direction.

 

Katrina means that the political culture, already sour and bloody-minded in many quarters, will shift. There will be a reaction. There will be more impatience for something new. There is going to be some sort of big bang as people respond to the cumulative blows of bad events and try to fundamentally change the way things are.

 

Reaganite conservatism was the response to the pessimism and feebleness of the 1970's. Maybe this time there will be a progressive resurgence. Maybe we are entering an age of hardheaded law and order. (Rudy Giuliani, an unlikely G.O.P. nominee a few months ago, could now win in a walk.) Maybe there will be call for McCainist patriotism and nonpartisan independence. All we can be sure of is that the political culture is about to undergo some big change.

 

We're not really at a tipping point as much as a bursting point. People are mad as hell, unwilling to take it anymore.

 

David Brooks giving us gloom and doom or reality?

[Balta1701]

There was a striking discrepancy between the CNN International report on the Bush visit to the New Orleans disaster zone, yesterday, and reports of the same event by German TV.

 

ZDF News reported that the president's visit was a completely staged event. Their crew witnessed how the open air food distribution point Bush visited in front of the cameras was torn down immediately after the president and the herd of 'news people' had left and that others which were allegedly being set up were abandoned at the same time. The people in the area were once again left to fend for themselves, said ZDF.

link.

 

In St. Bernard and Plaquemines parishes, just south of New Orleans, victims of the hurricane are still waiting for food and water and for buses to escape the floodwaters, [ Rep. Charlie Melancon, D-La.] said. And for the entire time Bush was in the state, the congressman said, a ban on helicopter flights further stalled the delivery of food and supplies.

Reported by the AP, confirmed by the Times Picayune.

 

Yes, that's right...helicopter rescue efforts STOPPED while Bush was in town. You read that right.

 

God, don't you wish there could have been just 1 more helicopter flight to the Convention Center?

 

Three babies died at the New Orleans Convention Center from heat exhaustion, said Mark Kyle, a medical relief provider.

Edited September 4, 2005 by Balta1701