Game Thread 8/29

[TheBlackSox8]

I just don't understand. I've never heard fans argue against their own players so much. Players who play on teh best team in teh AL no less.

 

the bashing isn't as bad if we win.

are they the best team in the AL, or is it that they have the best record in the AL right now?

 

I remember when they were about 8 or 9 games up on the closest team to them....now they are what??? 4 or 5. They aren't playing like the best team. I'm not complaining like a lot of people on this board....but since the break I'm not too thrilled with this team. Is it fatigue? Is it a slump? I don't know what it is, but they aren't the best team in the AL.....they were a month ago....but not right now.

[Flash Tizzle]

This is an example of what happens when our pitching wets itself. The team simply cannot afford to be down early in a game because it's improbable they'll outslug teams.

 

If you can't comeback against Texas pitching, well, that's just indicative of the offensive midset your team has when its behind. Everyone begins pressing.

Edited August 30, 2005 by Flash Tizzle

[jphat007]

Johan Santana 13-6 with a 3.13 ERA and a 1.00WHIP.  He has 195ks and 36bbs overall.

 

In the second half  Santana is 6-1 with a 1.54 ERA a .90WHIP.  He has 52ks and 10BBs.

 

vs.

 

Mark Buerhle  14-6 with a 2.99 ERA(before this start) and a 1.16WHIP, he has 115ks and 31bbs.

In the second half  he is 4-3 with a 4.02ERA with a 1.29 WHIP and a 30ks and 10BBs.

I can see how Burly has been better, and Johan hasnt proven a thing , those damn Cy Youngs fall off trees like crazy

 

LOL. Yah, lets split up the halves, like that means anything. No reason in the year as a whole when looking a thte best pitcher.

 

There is no argument about who has played better in the second half. I don't care about that.

 

Buerhle has been better overall though. The most important stat for a pitcher is how many runs he gives up. Not how he does it, and Mark has been better in that this year.

 

Furthermore, who cares about his Cy Young last year. What the hell does that have anything to do with who has been the better pitcher this year.

Edited August 30, 2005 by jphat007

[Dick Allen]

Well. If you think wins is teh best way to measure a pitcher I just can't argue with you then. Reading something like that just blows my mind, so it's no point in arguing anymore really.

You're right wins don't matter. Its the ERA. The Sox supposedly have a pretty good defensive team. At the moment, Buerhle has allowed 20 unearned runs this season, an indication of trouble pitching over mistakes, something you would expect the best pitcher in the league to do. Santana, who in your mind is no match for Buerhle, has allowed 3 unearned runs this season.

[kapkomet]

LOL. Yah, lets split up the halves, like that means anything. No reason in the year as a whole when looking a thte best pitcher.

 

There is no argument about who has played better in the second half. I don't care about that.

 

Buerhle has been better overall though. The most important stat for a pitcher is how many runs he gives up. Not how he does it, and Mark has been better in that this year.

I think that you're right over all the year, but I do think most people's point is RIGHT NOW he's struggling.

[Flash Tizzle]

Jeff Bajenaru has relieved Buehlre.

 

I know some of you are praying for a 123 inning. Anything less and I'LL RAISE HELL.

[jphat007]

You're right wins don't matter. Its the ERA. The Sox supposedly have a pretty good defensive team. At the moment, Buerhle has allowed 20 unearned runs this season, an indication of trouble pitching over mistakes, something you would expect the best pitcher in the league to do.  Santana, who in your mind is no match for Buerhle, has allowed 3 unearned runs this season.

 

Like I say, if you think wins have anything to do with measuring a better pitcher, then there is no sense arguing. I can't argue with someone who thinks like that.

Edited August 30, 2005 by jphat007

[Flash Tizzle]

Props for Bajenaru. Filthy breaking ball.

[Heads22]

BAJ!

[Heads22]

That's dos.

[Dick Allen]

Like I say, if you think wins have anything to do with measuring a better pitcher, then there is no sense arguing. I can't argue with someone who thinks like that.

Well, I just blew away your runs allowed theory as well. I did a little research, something maybe you should think about doing. Your argument is ERA. There are things more important than ERA. Buehrle will be 14-7 with a 3.07 ERA after tonight. I would rather have him 16-5 with a 4.20 ERA, but that's just me.

[maggsmaggs]

Baj might be with the team next year. That is if they decide to move Viz.

[Heads22]

Well, damn lefties anyways.

[southsideirish71]

LOL. Yah, lets split up the halves, like that means anything. No reason in the year as a whole when looking a thte best pitcher.

 

There is no argument about who has played better in the second half. I don't care about that.

 

Buerhle has been better overall though. The most important stat for a pitcher is how many runs he gives up. Not how he does it, and Mark has been better in that this year.

 

Furthermore, who cares about his Cy Young last year. What the hell does that have anything to do with who has been the better pitcher this year.

 

I will make you a friendly bet and say that Johan has better numbers than Mark by the end of this year. And that is over the entire year. I like Mark, but lets be honest. You discount a pitcher that people fear to face, that can shut an offense down. Mark is a great pitcher, but he doesnt shut teams down.

[quickman]

LOL. Yah, lets split up the halves, like that means anything. No reason in the year as a whole when looking a thte best pitcher.

 

There is no argument about who has played better in the second half. I don't care about that.

 

Buerhle has been better overall though. The most important stat for a pitcher is how many runs he gives up. Not how he does it, and Mark has been better in that this year.

 

Furthermore, who cares about his Cy Young last year. What the hell does that have anything to do with who has been the better pitcher this year.

 

 

I do, it goes back to my tendency note. Now if he sucks in the second half, then why would he not suck in the playoffs? He has sucked lately. Getting hit and not pitching like an ace. Thats a problem.

[jphat007]

Well, I just blew away your runs allowed theory as well. I did a little research, something maybe you should think about doing. Your argument is ERA. There are things more important than ERA. Buehrle will be 14-7 with a 3.07 ERA after tonight. I would rather have him 16-5 with a 4.20 ERA, but that's just me.

 

And that's exactly my point.

 

The fact that you'd rather take a pitcher who gives up more runs is just incredible to me. I can't put it any other way.

 

What that says is that the other guy's team scores more runs for him. I'd rather have that other guys offense, but I sure as hell don't want him over a guy with a 3.07 ERA.

[Dick Allen]

Like I say, if you think wins have anything to do with measuring a better pitcher, then there is no sense arguing. I can't argue with someone who thinks like that.

Just so you know, I think Buehrle is a great pitcher. Certainly not the best in the league, but a well-deserved All Star.

[southsideirish71]

And that's exactly my point.

 

The fact that you'd rather take a pitcher who gives up more runs is just incredible to me. I can't put it any other way.

 

What that says is that the other guy's team scores more runs for him. I'd rather have that other guys offense, but I sure as hell don't want him over a guy with a 3.07 ERA.

 

If Mark was playing MVP he would trade Johan to his team and play as him. LOL

[Heads22]

Baj says shh.

 

Definitley looked better at the beginning of the inning than the end. But, lefties hit him at a .300 clip in Charlotte so that hit wasn't a huge surprise.

 

Baj

Edited August 30, 2005 by Heads22

[DBAHO]

Jeff Bajenaru has relieved Buehlre.

 

I know some of you are praying for a 123 inning. Anything less and I'LL RAISE HELL. 

Gonna raise hell still Flash?

[jphat007]

I will make you a friendly bet and say that Johan has better numbers than Mark by the end of this year.  And that is over the entire year.  I like Mark, but lets be honest.  You discount a pitcher that people fear to face, that can shut an offense down.  Mark is a great pitcher, but he doesnt shut teams down.

 

Shutting down?

 

Buehrle has 11 starts giving up one run or less.

 

Santana has 9 of a similar nature.

 

Next?

[maggsmaggs]

Buerhle is a very streakly pitcher. He usually has one "pitcher of the month" months, a couple of good ones, a bad one or two and an average one. Santana is very solid all the time and spectacular in the 2nd half. Santana can shut out the Yanks, Red Sox and Anaheim. Buerhle really can't.

[maggsmaggs]

Indians win, not looking good.

[Dick Allen]

And that's exactly my point.

 

The fact that you'd rather take a pitcher who gives up more runs is just incredible to me. I can't put it any other way.

 

What that says is that the other guy's team scores more runs for him. I'd rather have that other guys offense, but I sure as hell don't want him over a guy with a 3.07 ERA.

 

If you read it correctly I would rather have the guy with the higher ERA if over that same time he won more games. There are some pitchers when they lose, lose 4-2. Some lose 8-2. ERA isn't the most important stat.

[jphat007]

Buerhle is a very streakly pitcher.  He usually has one "pitcher of the month" months, a couple of good ones, a bad one or two and an average one.  Santana is very solid all the time and spectacular in the 2nd half.  Santana can shut out the Yanks, Red Sox and Anaheim.  Buerhle really can't.

 

Santana gave up 3 runs in 6 innigns against Boston. Just like Mark.

 

He gave up 7 runs against ANA in 2 starts. Mark gave up 4. Those are the only comparable.