southsideirish71 Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 QUOTE(jphat007 @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 08:16 PM) Shutting down? Buehrle has 11 starts giving up one run or less. Santana has 9 of a similar nature. Next? If Ryan offered Santana for Mark Buerhle straight up. KW would yell DEAL before Ryan got Santa out of his mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphat007 Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 08:18 PM) If you read it correctly I would rather have the guy with the higher ERA if over that same time he won more games. There are some pitchers when they lose, lose 4-2. Some lose 8-2. ERA isn't the most important stat. Yes it is. A guy with that kind of record is getting great offense. That's the reason he is winning. LOL. I can't blieve you're arguing that you'd rather have a pitcher who gives up more runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 08:20 PM) If Ryan offered Santana for Mark Buerhle straight up. KW would yell DEAL before Ryan got Santa out of his mouth. yeah, that's all u need to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphat007 Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 08:20 PM) If Ryan offered Santana for Mark Buerhle straight up. KW would yell DEAL before Ryan got Santa out of his mouth. That wasn't your point. You said Santana shut poeple down more this year. I showed you he didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 09:20 PM) If Ryan offered Santana for Mark Buerhle straight up. KW would yell DEAL before Ryan got Santa out of his mouth. Nah wouldn't want to mess with Chemistry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 QUOTE(jphat007 @ Aug 30, 2005 -> 02:21 AM) Yes it is. A guy with that kind of record is getting great offense. That's the reason he is winning. LOL. I can't blieve you're arguing that you'd rather have a pitcher who gives up more runs. Who would you rather start game seven of the World Series? MB or JS? My money's on JS, no offense. I can't put it a better way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 QUOTE(jphat007 @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 08:22 PM) That wasn't your point. You said Santana shut poeple down more this year. I showed you he didn't. No actually you are saying that Mark B is a better pitcher over this year. Then you discounted Johan because he is a very miniscule amount behind with better numbers in ever other category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphat007 Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 QUOTE(kapkomet @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 08:23 PM) Who would you rather start game seven of the World Series? MB or JS? My money's on JS, no offense. I can't put it a better way. What does that have to do with who has been the better pitcher this year? Or any of this striaght up trade talk. People are acting like I'm arguing who is the better pitcher. Of coure i suppose they saw they were wrong otherwise so they had to change it to that? I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CYGarland Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Santana>>>Buehrle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 QUOTE(jphat007 @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 09:24 PM) What does that have to do with who has been the better pitcher this year? Or any of this striaght up trade talk. People are acting like I'm arguing who is the better pitcher. Of coure i suppose they saw they were wrong otherwise so they had to change it to that? I'm not sure. I guess nobody knows what your point is except you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphat007 Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 08:23 PM) No actually you are saying that Mark B is a better pitcher over this year. Then you discounted Johan because he is a very miniscule amount behind with better numbers in ever other category. In the only stat that matters, how many runs a pitcher gives up over a comparable number of innings, which is the only thing he can control, Mark beats out Santana this year. I'm not sure how much more clear that can get. But Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CYGarland Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 (edited) I'd like to see Carl come up here as the tieing or possibly winning run Edited August 30, 2005 by CYGarland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphat007 Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(quickman @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 08:24 PM) I guess nobody knows what your point is except you. Or they try to change the argument because they know they are wrong? It was pretty clear what my point was. Buehrle leads the league in ERA. He is the best pitcher this year. If Halladay pitched the whole year, he would be the best pitcher this year. Edited August 30, 2005 by jphat007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 QUOTE(CYGarland @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 09:24 PM) Santana>>>Buehrle I just like the fact that it's debatable, and santana's first half was nowhere near as good as last year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 why are some so obsessed with santana vs. buehrle. Ok, santana is better. so what. Mark is still damn good and we're not going to get Santana anytime soon. We need Freddie, Mark and Jon to start dominating like the first half or we might blow this division lead. I'm banking on Cleveland cooling off at some point. If Cleveland keeps winning 8 or 9 of every 10 they probaby will overtake us. I just don't think the Tribe will do that, but who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphat007 Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 QUOTE(CYGarland @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 08:24 PM) Santana>>>Buehrle Overall yes. UP to this point this year, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 QUOTE(jphat007 @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 09:25 PM) In the only stat that matters, how many runs a pitcher gives up over a comparable number of innings, which is the only thing he can control, Mark beats out Santana this year. I'm not sure how much more clear that can get. But wait a couple more outings, and Buerhles ERA will be over 3.50. then 3.60, then 3.70. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 QUOTE(jphat007 @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 08:21 PM) Yes it is. A guy with that kind of record is getting great offense. That's the reason he is winning. LOL. I can't blieve you're arguing that you'd rather have a pitcher who gives up more runs. Example: Head to Head Gm 1 9ip 2er w Pitcher#2 Gm1 9ip 5er l Gm2 9ip 5er l Gm2 9ip 4er w Gm3 9ip 2er l Gm3 9ip 1er w Pitcher #1 1-2 3.00 era Pitcher #2 2-1 3.33 era Call me crazy, but I'd go with pitcher #2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CYGarland Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 07:26 PM) I just like the fact that it's debatable, and santana's first half was nowhere near as good as last year... This year it is debatable, but I'd still take Santana over Buehrle in a Heartbeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphat007 Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 QUOTE(quickman @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 08:27 PM) wait a couple more outings, and Buerhles ERA will be over 3.50. then 3.60, then 3.70. ANd then you can say Santana is having the better year. But unless you can accurately tell the future, you have no point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphat007 Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 QUOTE(CYGarland @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 08:28 PM) This year it is debatable, but I'd still take Santana over Buehrle in a Heartbeat. Nobody is debating your second point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CYGarland Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Hmmmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(jphat007 @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 08:25 PM) In the only stat that matters, how many runs a pitcher gives up over a comparable number of innings, which is the only thing he can control, Mark beats out Santana this year. I'm not sure how much more clear that can get. But Mark has given up 63 ER in 189.2 innings. Santana has given up 66 ER in 188 innings. So those 3 ERs really make a huge difference. This of course was up until tonights start. Edited August 30, 2005 by southsideirish71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFanForever Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 QUOTE(CYGarland @ Aug 30, 2005 -> 02:25 AM) I'd like to see Carl come up here as the tieing or possibly winning run You get your wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CYGarland Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 QUOTE(jphat007 @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 07:29 PM) Nobody is debating your second point. Then this debate should be over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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