Rowand44 Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 QUOTE(spiderman @ Aug 30, 2005 -> 06:56 PM) Nobody is saying that Burehle stinks - did you read that somewhere in this thread ? As I said, he's a good #2 starter, but do you honestly rank him as a true #1 starter ? If Buehrle hasn't been an ace this year...who has?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted August 31, 2005 Author Share Posted August 31, 2005 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Aug 30, 2005 -> 07:58 PM) If Buehrle hasn't been an ace this year...who has?? He has lost H2H 2x to Barry Zito and Johan Santana - yes, i know our team must score runs for him, but at some point, don't you have to be able to knock off other teams' top starters ? Again, this is not to say that he's not a good pitcher - he's a really good pitcher ,just not an ace like you believe. I don't think there are a lot shut-down type pitchers out there - off the top of my head, I'd say Clemens, Halladay (when healthy), Santana, Carpenter, Colon, P.Martinez are definite aces, and there's a few others out there that are arguably as good as Buerhle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letsgoarow Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 i know im not supposed to personal attact people..but you are out of your mind how can you say somebody is not an ace when he has the 2ND BEST ERA IN THE AMERICAN LEAUGE.. that is plan stupid, he would be the ace on almost every team in the majors... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Aug 31, 2005 -> 12:57 AM) I'd say we've just been playing like absolute s*** for the last two weeks. We built up the lead so nicely when we were playing well that we still got a nice cushion after playing like complete s*** for the last two weeks. You don't call a team dead when they've been damn good all season minus a few weeks. Is the offense bad right now...hell yeah it is but they'll hit better I'll guarantee that. The thing is every team goes through ups and downs, right now we're playing awful but we'll get out of it and soon. Basically, we gave ourself a great cushion in case of a prolonged slump. Well, we've had that slump now, and we still have what most of baseball would be considered a comfortable lead. Of course, if we struggle the rest of the season, we won't make it. Not too many teams deserve to make the playoffs if they struggle the last 2 months of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Sox Josh Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 QUOTE(spiderman @ Aug 30, 2005 -> 07:06 PM) I thin it's becoming obvios that the White Sox played over their heads in the first half of the season. In the 2nd half, I think a couple points have been solidified, and I'd like to see what White Sox fans here think: 1) I know the price tag is high, and other teams haven't made significant moves, but Kenny Williams needs to do something to upgrade this lineup - even if just gives Ozzie Guillen another bat off the bench, anything! I realize Dmitri Young (or someone similar to him) isn't going to carry a ballclub, but he could be a contributor - right now, playing non-hitters like Geoff Blum, Juan Uribe, Timo Perez, Joe Crede, etc. from basically 6-9, 7-9 in the lineup regularly puts a lot of pressure on the top 6 hitters to do score most/all of the runs, and those guys aren't the type of players capable of doing that. 2) As we stand, the offense is pathetic. They do not have a #3 hitter in the lineup, and most of the hitters are #6 or #7 hitters (Dye, Everett, Rowand, Pierzyinski) in a good lineup. They don't usually put up more than a few runs in a game, putting tremendous pressure on the pitching staff to overcome the lack of run production. 3) Mark Buerhle is not an ace - he is a good pitcher, but no more than #2 on a pitching staff. 4) Jon Garland is pitching how he did last season in the 2nd half. Not consistent at all. 5) Freddy Garcia is the same pitcher he's been over his career - he seems to rise up/down according to his competition. 6) The White Sox need to make a decision about their closer - Hermanson should have the job, but he obviously isn't healthy. The bullpen has pitched well, but down the stretch I think you have to either go with him, or DL him and hope the team makes the playoffs and gets him back healthier OR go with Bobby Jenks down the stretch. 7) With all that, the problem isn't the pitching - yes, it has been uneven, but it can't be expected to win every game 3-2, 4-3. It has not been very often that the White Sox have won comfortably. - I'm not even sure the White Sox make the playoffs anymore. Sure, they still have a 6.5 game lead, and things could be even worse, but this team doesn't have an ace, is getting up and down performances for Garland, and has a closer who's injured, and haven't been depending on as much. The hitting is just not getting the job done, end of story. If they do make the playoffs, I see a first round, playoff exit. -- Feel free to offer your thoughts/commentary vs. my points, and let me add two more points - I don't think I'm overreacting - this has been going now for about 50 games, and, lastly, I'm a big White Sox fan, and watching this fall apart is really disappointing. Looking forward to good discussion. whats your definition of ace, Kerry Wood? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nokona Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Would you like to retract that statement? With this lead in the 2nd game, are you back on the bandwagon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted August 31, 2005 Author Share Posted August 31, 2005 QUOTE(White Sox Josh @ Aug 30, 2005 -> 09:20 PM) whats your definition of ace, Kerry Wood? Kerry Wood is not an ace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted August 31, 2005 Author Share Posted August 31, 2005 QUOTE(Nokona @ Aug 30, 2005 -> 09:35 PM) Would you like to retract that statement? With this lead in the 2nd game, are you back on the bandwagon? I'm a big White Sox fan, I just don't drink the coolaid.... Making I am worrying too much, and maybe they will be playing their best ball come October, and I hope you all can tell me I'm wrong..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Sox Josh Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 QUOTE(spiderman @ Aug 30, 2005 -> 09:44 PM) Kerry Wood is not an ace. no he isn't but Buehrle is and probably is one of the top 5 leftys in baseball. He might be the best behind willis and Santana. That=Ace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 The team isnt done. Our offense needs to hit like they have today for the rest of september and into October. If the offense hits like today we will be ok. This was one of the best hitting examples I have seen since the Baltimore series. Our pitching will be fine. Maybe Ozzie can work Brandon into the rotation and go with a six man rotation and give our starters rest. Our starters are tired and probably overworked. My only worry is the offense, if that part can get its head out of its ass we will be ok. I have been saying that since opening day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphat007 Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 (edited) Don't take it personally, but I think saying that Burly is not an ace after the year he is having just might be the dumbest thing I have ever read on the internet. JMHO. Mercy. If the guy who is third in the AL in baseball in wins, and is the qualifying leader in ERA in a hitters home park, isn't an Ace, there must not be any aces out there. Edited August 31, 2005 by jphat007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letsgoarow Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 well said jphat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Buehrle's an ace no matter what attribute you judge....besides pitch speed. If that's the case, you can have Kerry Wood and his 10 million dollar contract. The only complaint you'll get about Buehrle from some of us is he's struggled against the tougher competition. However, that subject has been beaten to death, so there's no reason to bring it up again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RME JICO Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 QUOTE(jphat007 @ Aug 30, 2005 -> 09:59 PM) Don't take it personally, but I think saying that Burly is not an ace after the year he is having just might be the dumbest thing I have ever read on the internet. JMHO. Mercy. If the guy who is third in the AL in baseball in wins, and is the qualifying leader in ERA in a hitters home park, isn't an Ace, there must not be any aces out there. Amen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Dye and Rowand with Pods getting on at the top could carry this team. They're looking good right now. I'm sticking to my guns, if we go into the playoffs with a few guys like this hitting, we're in good shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Aug 30, 2005 -> 09:24 PM) Dye and Rowand with Pods getting on at the top could carry this team. They're looking good right now. I'm sticking to my guns, if we go into the playoffs with a few guys like this hitting, we're in good shape. I'm thinking and hoping tonight was the turn around day. I haven't seen our offense look that good in quite a while, very impressive day by the O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 QUOTE(spiderman @ Aug 30, 2005 -> 07:56 PM) Nobody is saying that Burehle stinks - did you read that somewhere in this thread ? As I said, he's a good #2 starter, but do you honestly rank him as a true #1 starter ? Thanks for that one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Aug 30, 2005 -> 10:27 PM) I'm thinking and hoping tonight was the turn around day. I haven't seen our offense look that good in quite a while, very impressive day by the O. I hate when people say that. It just seems that they revert back to the garbage whenever someone says that. I'm just insane about the jinxes, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFirebird Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Aug 30, 2005 -> 08:59 PM) The team isnt done. Our offense needs to hit like they have today for the rest of september and into October. If the offense hits like today we will be ok. This was one of the best hitting examples I have seen since the Baltimore series. Our pitching will be fine. Maybe Ozzie can work Brandon into the rotation and go with a six man rotation and give our starters rest. Our starters are tired and probably overworked. My only worry is the offense, if that part can get its head out of its ass we will be ok. I have been saying that since opening day. agreed....everyone just needs to take a chill pill. if this was may no one would be talking about it..but because it is august and september people are worried. remember...PITCHING and DEFENSE wins in the playoffs. as long as we get our head out of our ass and catch the ball we will win...blum gave away 4 runs in the first game and yesterday tadahito gave away at least 3. we win those games if we play defense. hitting is streaky...it is never consistent. that is why we went to "smart ball" when we arent hitting well we try to scrap some runs together...sometimes it works sometimes it doesnt. this is what we have and we have to deal with that. everyone keep your head up and enjoy the very magical year!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFirebird Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Aug 30, 2005 -> 09:24 PM) Dye and Rowand with Pods getting on at the top could carry this team. They're looking good right now. I'm sticking to my guns, if we go into the playoffs with a few guys like this hitting, we're in good shape. right on!! does anyone else watch playoff games? all it takes is for 2-3 guys to get hot and with this pitching we can beat anyone in the AL! im staying on the wagon right next to ya Kalapse! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 QUOTE(spiderman @ Aug 30, 2005 -> 08:06 PM) I thin it's becoming obvios that the White Sox played over their heads in the first half of the season. In the 2nd half, I think a couple points have been solidified, and I'd like to see what White Sox fans here think: 1) I know the price tag is high, and other teams haven't made significant moves, but Kenny Williams needs to do something to upgrade this lineup - even if just gives Ozzie Guillen another bat off the bench, anything! I realize Dmitri Young (or someone similar to him) isn't going to carry a ballclub, but he could be a contributor - right now, playing non-hitters like Geoff Blum, Juan Uribe, Timo Perez, Joe Crede, etc. from basically 6-9, 7-9 in the lineup regularly puts a lot of pressure on the top 6 hitters to do score most/all of the runs, and those guys aren't the type of players capable of doing that. 2) As we stand, the offense is pathetic. They do not have a #3 hitter in the lineup, and most of the hitters are #6 or #7 hitters (Dye, Everett, Rowand, Pierzyinski) in a good lineup. They don't usually put up more than a few runs in a game, putting tremendous pressure on the pitching staff to overcome the lack of run production. 3) Mark Buerhle is not an ace - he is a good pitcher, but no more than #2 on a pitching staff. 4) Jon Garland is pitching how he did last season in the 2nd half. Not consistent at all. 5) Freddy Garcia is the same pitcher he's been over his career - he seems to rise up/down according to his competition. 6) The White Sox need to make a decision about their closer - Hermanson should have the job, but he obviously isn't healthy. The bullpen has pitched well, but down the stretch I think you have to either go with him, or DL him and hope the team makes the playoffs and gets him back healthier OR go with Bobby Jenks down the stretch. 7) With all that, the problem isn't the pitching - yes, it has been uneven, but it can't be expected to win every game 3-2, 4-3. It has not been very often that the White Sox have won comfortably. - I'm not even sure the White Sox make the playoffs anymore. Sure, they still have a 6.5 game lead, and things could be even worse, but this team doesn't have an ace, is getting up and down performances for Garland, and has a closer who's injured, and haven't been depending on as much. The hitting is just not getting the job done, end of story. If they do make the playoffs, I see a first round, playoff exit. -- Feel free to offer your thoughts/commentary vs. my points, and let me add two more points - I don't think I'm overreacting - this has been going now for about 50 games, and, lastly, I'm a big White Sox fan, and watching this fall apart is really disappointing. Looking forward to good discussion. :headshake :banghead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wsox08 Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Sox lose = everyone thinks they are going nowhere Sox win = WOAH we rock, UNDEFEATED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 All you have to do to see this team may be in trouble in the playoffs is to look at their second half record. I hope they get in turned around in Sept, but they need to play with some fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Since the beginning of the 7 game losing streak, if I calculated correctly, we are 6-11. Now reverting back to 25-25 record over the last 50 games, then we were 19-14 prior to the 7 game suckage streak and 6-4 since the end of it. That 7 game streak was our proverbial bump in the road. We got through it and survived it. We will be ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Sox Josh Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 So Buehrle is not an ace because he struggled against Texas. A lot of pitchers do. They have the best lineup in the AL. Also the defense wasn't exactly great behind Buehrle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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