NFL Rankings

[Spiff]

Really? Show me the last team that was built around defense and lost it's leader on defense, and both of it's coordinators, and still succeeded in the following years. Going by the history of the NFL, they're going to slip into mediocrity, and likely even worse.

 

I seem to remember a Patriots team who was built around defense and cut their leader on defense (Lawyer Milloy) the day before the season started. But I can't remember how they did.....oh yeah they finished the season with 15 straight wins and a Super Bowl.

 

This team is built upon the philosophy that everyone is replaceable. They may not win 14 again but to say they're not upper-tier coming off 3 Super Bowls in 4 years is ridiculous.

 

Those other teams that dominated didn't have free agency (except for Dallas, but it was just beginning) to replace their aging vets like the Patriots do.

[GoodAsGould]

Not to mention they lost another team leader in Ty Law during the season this year and did fine.... They are good enough that they will be fine without Bruschi or howevr you spell his name.

[Dam8610]

I seem to remember a Patriots team who was built around defense and cut their leader on defense (Lawyer Milloy) the day before the season started.  But I can't remember how they did.....oh yeah they finished the season with 15 straight wins and a Super Bowl.

 

Wow, so you're comparing Milloy to Bruschi? That's like comparing Darren Sharper to Ray Lewis. Bruschi was the leader of their defense then, and he was up until the day he suffered that stroke. The reason Milloy got cut was because they had a better player at the position in Rodney Harrison, who the Chargers were stupid enough to cut.

 

This team is built upon the philosophy that everyone is replaceable.  They may not win 14 again but to say they're not upper-tier coming off 3 Super Bowls in 4 years is ridiculous.

 

That's the exact reason I'm saying they're not going to be among the top tier of playoff teams (i.e. Bye week, maybe even division winner) this year. With all the losses they've suffered, and the fact that they're going to get EVERYONE'S A+ game, there's even a distinct possibility they won't make the playoffs.

 

Those other teams that dominated didn't have free agency (except for Dallas, but it was just beginning) to replace their aging vets like the Patriots do.

 

Actually, both teams signed Deion Sanders via free agency within their run of success. I'll be quite surprised if Monty Beisel does well in attempting to replace Bruschi.

Edited September 4, 2005 by Dam8610

[GoodAsGould]

Actually he was the team leader b4 being cut... Milloy that is, and Im pretty sure up to that point Bruschi wasnt really a known name and hadnt been to a pro bowl yet like Milloy has.

[GASHWOUND]

Seemed to make up fine against the Bears last year. I'd say that they did a better job of handling it last year, if records are any indication....

I live in Iowa. I got a steady dose of GB, Chicago, and Minnesota last year. Now in Ames, it'll probably be more St. Louis and KC. If you paired the Bears D with a lot of other offenses, they'd be an upper-division team......the Bears could easily hold Portis to 42 yards and still not score enough points to win, you know, just to spite you guys....

 

Some of the posters here are banking on Mushin having a second career year in a row, while expecting Orton and Benson to be world-beaters when they haven't gotten much/any action in even a preseason game. Roethlisberger, Orton's not. I know what Orton and Benson did in college. Doesn't mean a damn thing until they start playing some NFL games.

 

So how many games do ya think the Bears will win? Cause if not for a blown call last year against the Lions they would have won 6 games. Why do i bring this up? Cause they won 3 straight games with f'n Craig Krezel startin...If they could win with that blowhole...I think they can win with Orton

and to boot we had Jonathan Quinn and Hutchinson start the other games with Urlacher, Brown, Tillman, and Azhuma out for a bunch of games last year and Ogunleye playing with a bad heel.

 

plus the additions that we added in the off season to improve the O-line, added a Pro-bowl receiver, drafted another RB and WO plus Harris and Johnson with a year under their belt and guys on the D healthy..We should be able to add 2 or 3 more wins to last years total..

I said they finish 8-8, so I'm not penciling them for the playoffs..but am I being unrealistic here when they could almost win 6 games last year with the mess they had with QB changes and injuries?

 

I don't think I am.

[DBAHO]

So how many games do ya think the Bears will win? Cause if not for a blown call last year against the Lions they would have won 6 games. Why do i bring this up? Cause they won 3 straight games with f'n Craig Krezel startin...If they could win with that blowhole...I think they can win with Orton

and to boot we had Jonathan Quinn and Hutchinson start the other games with Urlacher, Brown, Tillman, and Azhuma out for a bunch of games last year and Ogunleye playing with a bad heel.

 

plus the additions that we added in the off season to improve the O-line, added a Pro-bowl receiver, drafted another RB and WO plus Harris and Johnson with a year under their belt and guys on the D healthy..We should be able to add 2 or 3 more wins to last years total..

I said they finish 8-8, so I'm not penciling them for the playoffs..but am I being unrealistic here when they could almost win 6 games last year with the mess they had with QB changes and injuries?

 

I don't think I am.

Those games the Bears won with Krenzel were against the 49ers, the Giants (when they were really struggling) and Tennessee (who were terrible last year).

 

Orton and Krenzel, hate to say it, don't think there is going to be much of a difference through the season b/w those 2. Orton's a rookie, and yeah he's better than Krenzel, but he's still a rookie, and he's gonna make mistakes. Everyone says how much of a diff. Muhammed is going to make compared to Terrell, well Terrel had what 45 receptions last season, Muhsin might only have around 50 with the Bears QB situation, that's not a pro - bowl like receiver.

 

Injuries are going to happen again, it's a fact of life. The key is can the Bears keep winning if it happens, last year they couldn't.

[Dam8610]

Actually he was the team leader b4 being cut... Milloy that is, and Im pretty sure up to that point Bruschi wasnt really a known name and hadnt been to a pro bowl yet like Milloy has.

 

Patriots fans would tell you differently. Bruschi may not have been to the Pro Bowl, but that doesn't mean he was the leader of their defense.

[DBAHO]

Patriots fans would tell you differently. Bruschi may not have been to the Pro Bowl, but that doesn't mean he was the leader of their defense.

Maybe it's time for somebody else to step up then. The Patriots have a great knack at finding no - name players, stick em in a position, and they get the job done. I'm expecting they'll be able to do it again.

[GASHWOUND]

Those games the Bears won with Krenzel were against the 49ers, the Giants (when they were really struggling) and Tennessee (who were terrible last year).

 

Orton and Krenzel, hate to say it, don't think there is going to be much of a difference through the season b/w those 2. Orton's a rookie, and yeah he's better than Krenzel, but he's still a rookie, and he's gonna make mistakes. Everyone says how much of a diff. Muhammed is going to make compared to Terrell, well Terrel had what 45 receptions last season, Muhsin might only have around 50 with the Bears QB situation, that's not a pro - bowl like receiver.

 

Injuries are going to happen again, it's a fact of life. The key is can the Bears keep winning if it happens, last year they couldn't.

 

Stop comparing the recently cut Terrell to Muhammed..That's a HUGE upgrade over Terrell, i don't care what anyone says..And Orton is a hell of alot better then Krenzel, rookie or not..Krenzel couldn't throw more then 10 yrds down the field..at least with Orton he has that threat of going down field which will open it more for the RBs.

 

And of course he's going to make mistakes..have you've seen some of the QB teams are startin around the league..half the teams have border-line Avg QBs..

I don't think Orton is soooo much worse then the junk that's out there right now..

 

Obviously injuries are gonna happen again, but they had their best LB, best CB, supposedly best pass rusher hurt, and best safety out for a majority of games last year..all at the same time some games..

If we can limit the injuries of our best D players I don't see why we can't win 7 or 8 games.

There deep at the D-line, but not so much on CB and LB..so we gotta hope they stay relatively healthy..if not we're not gonna win more then 5 or so.

 

I know someone is gonna get injured, but still gotta stay hopeful its not multiple players out at the same time like last year.

 

the team is better then last years..favorable schedule again this year..D talented enough to keep us in games and hopin the depth at RB can somehow intertwine to take some of the load of of Orton...

But obviously you and everyone sayin their gonna suck, and I saying their gonna be Avg is all conjecture of course.

 

Nobody sayin their gonna be good, but that's why they play the games..So instead of me saying I know for sure the D is gonna be great of Orton is gonna be at least serviceable, or you anointing Muhammed 'Terrell lite' there's no way of knowing how things are gonna turn out.

Maybe you're right, and I'm being blinded by Bear light..fine..whatever..

I just know it can't get any worse then the mess we had last year with injuries and Krenzel...Ughh

reiterating, just gotta hope we stay relatively healthy on D..

[DBAHO]

Stop comparing the recently cut Terrell to Muhammed..That's a HUGE upgrade over Terrell, i don't care what anyone says..And Orton is a hell of alot better then Krenzel, rookie or not..Krenzel couldn't throw more then 10 yrds down the field..at least with Orton he has that threat of going down field which will open it more for the RBs.

 

And of course he's going to make mistakes..have you've seen some of the QB teams are startin around the league..half the teams have border-line Avg QBs..

I don't think Orton is soooo much worse then the junk that's out there right now..

 

Obviously injuries are gonna happen again, but they had their best LB, best CB, supposedly best pass rusher hurt, and best safety out for a majority of games last year..all at the same time some games..

If we can limit the injuries of our best D players I don't see why we can't win 7 or 8 games.

There deep at the D-line, but not so much on CB and LB..so we gotta hope they stay relatively healthy..if not we're not gonna win more then 5 or so.

 

I know someone is gonna get injured, but still gotta stay hopeful its not multiple players out at the same time like last year.

 

the team is better then last years..favorable schedule again this year..D talented enough to keep us in games and hopin the depth at RB can somehow intertwine to take some of the load of of Orton...

But obviously you and everyone sayin their gonna suck, and I saying their gonna be Avg is all conjecture of course.

 

Nobody sayin their gonna be good, but that's why they play the games..So instead of me saying I know for sure the D is gonna be great of Orton is gonna be at least serviceable, or you anointing Muhammed 'Terrell lite' there's no way of knowing how things are gonna turn out.

Maybe you're right, and I'm being blinded by Bear light..fine..whatever..

I just know it can't get any worse then the mess we had last year with injuries and Krenzel...Ughh

reiterating, just gotta hope we stay relatively healthy on D..

Muhammed. Yes he's an upgrade. How much? He had 93 receptions last year, being Jake Delhomme's go to guy. The last 3 seasons before that though, 50 receptions, 63 receptions, 54 receptions. With the Bears not willing to throw the ball as much as Carolina, and Orton a rookie starting, it's naive to think Muhammed is going to go close to the numbers he put up last season. He'll be closer to Terrell's numbers than his own last season. He's hardly a spring chicken at 32 either.

 

Sure Orton could throw the ball more than 10M, if Ron Turner gives him the green light to do so. Is he going to make passes over that distance consistently though? I would doubt that very much, since the Bears WR corps is hardly near the top of the league. Krenzel couldn't throw the ball more than 10M probably because he didn't get the time to do so, plus Terry Shea wouldn't let him.

 

Ok let's have a look at each starting QB in the league compared to Kyle Orton.

 

Buffalo - J.P Losman. Struggled in pre-season, but has had a year to learn the system, and Mike Mularkey is a great QB - offensive coach. Better than Orton.

Miami - Gus Freotte. He's a veteran, and Scott Linehan will utilize him well. Borderline pretty close to Orton this year.

New England - Tom Brady. Not even close.

New York Jets - Chad Pennington. Not even close.

Baltimore Ravens - Kyle Boller. Yet he ain't too great. Probably pretty close to Orton, unless he finally gets it.

Cincinatti Bengals - Carson Palmer. Better than Orton.

Cleveland Browns - Trent Dilfer. Yep another veteran, borderline close to Orton.

Pittsburgh Steelers - Ben Roesthlisberger. Better than Orton.

Houston Texans - David Carr. Better than Orton.

Indy Colts - Peyton Manning. Not even close.

Jacksonville Jaguars - Byron Leftwich. Better than Orton.

Tennessee Titans - Steve McNair. Not even close.

Denver Broncos - Jake Plummer. Not much of a brain, but better than Orton.

Kansas City Chiefs - Trent Green. Better than Orton.

Oakland Raiders - Kerry Collins. Hick..... hick, but better than Orton.

San Diego Chargers - Drew Bress. Better than Orton. And so is his backup for that matter, who could be wearing a Bears uniform in 06.

Dallas Cowboys - Drew Bledsoe. Looked good in pre-season, if he has time, he'll do the job. Better than Orton.

New York Giants - Eli Manning. Yeah he's better than Orton.

Philadelphia Eagles - Captain Dry - Heave... uhhh Donovan McNabb. Yeah he's better.

Washington Redskins - Patrick Ramsey. Not used well enough, if he was in the right system, he could be a top 10 QB. But he's better than Orton.

Detroit Lions - Joey Harrington - Yeah he's probably slightly better than Orton, needs to step up this year, I think he will.

Green Bay Packers - Brett Favre. Not even close.

Minnesota Vikings - Daunte Culpepper. Not even close.

Atlanta Falcons - Michael Vick. Not even close.

Carolina Panthers - Jake Delhomme. Gees didn't teams miss the boat here on him when he was a FA bout 2 or 3 years ago. Easily better than Orton.

New Orleans Saints - Aaron Brooks. Yeah he doesn't really get it, but his athletic skills make him better than Orton.

Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Brian Griese. If he throws as well as he did the 2nd half of last season, he's better than Orton. If not, probably not.

Arizona Cardinals - Kurt Warner. If he gets protected, better than Orton.

St. Louis Rams - Mark Bulger. Better than Orton.

San Francisco 49ers - Tim Rattay / Alex Smith. Right now Rattay's the starter. Smith struggled mightily in the pre - season. On this season alone, they'll probably be pretty close to Orton.

Seaatle Seahawks - Matt Hassellbeck. Not even close.

 

So on count of that, I counted 5 maybe 6 teams that have a QB situation around the Bears mark, but at least the majority of those teams have veterans. Hence my point on Orton, about expecting too much from him, too soon.

 

As for the injuries, well if the Bears D is so good, one, two or 3 injuries shouldn't be that huge for a team. There's more important spots were injuries can happen, like the QB spot, e.g the Titans last year with Steve McNair. Benson's gonna take a while to get used to the pace and the playbook etc. With Jones not being a power runner which is what Ron Turner wants, it's gonna be interesting to see how they move the football early on in the season. My guess is they'll probably struggle, with Washington who probably had a top 3 if not the best D in Football last season 1st up.

[GASHWOUND]

Muhammed. Yes he's an upgrade. How much? He had 93 receptions last year, being Jake Delhomme's go to guy. The last 3 seasons before that though, 50 receptions, 63 receptions, 54 receptions. With the Bears not willing to throw the ball as much as Carolina, and Orton a rookie starting, it's naive to think Muhammed is going to go close to the numbers he put up last season. He'll be closer to Terrell's numbers than his own last season. He's hardly a spring chicken at 32 either.

 

Sure Orton could throw the ball more than 10M, if Ron Turner gives him the green light to do so. Is he going to make passes over that distance consistently though? I would doubt that very much, since the Bears WR corps is hardly near the top of the league. Krenzel couldn't throw the ball more than 10M probably because he didn't get the time to do so, plus Terry Shea wouldn't let him.

 

Ok let's have a look at each starting QB in the league compared to Kyle Orton.

 

Buffalo - J.P Losman. Struggled in pre-season, but has had a year to learn the system, and Mike Mularkey is a great QB - offensive coach. Better than Orton.

Miami - Gus Freotte. He's a veteran, and Scott Linehan will utilize him well. Borderline pretty close to Orton this year.

New England - Tom Brady. Not even close.

New York Jets - Chad Pennington. Not even close.

Baltimore Ravens - Kyle Boller. Yet he ain't too great. Probably pretty close to Orton, unless he finally gets it.

Cincinatti Bengals - Carson Palmer. Better than Orton.

Cleveland Browns - Trent Dilfer. Yep another veteran, borderline close to Orton.

Pittsburgh Steelers - Ben Roesthlisberger. Better than Orton.

Houston Texans - David Carr. Better than Orton.

Indy Colts - Peyton Manning. Not even close.

Jacksonville Jaguars - Byron Leftwich. Better than Orton.

Tennessee Titans - Steve McNair. Not even close.

Denver Broncos - Jake Plummer. Not much of a brain, but better than Orton.

Kansas City Chiefs - Trent Green. Better than Orton.

Oakland Raiders - Kerry Collins. Hick..... hick, but better than Orton.

San Diego Chargers - Drew Bress. Better than Orton. And so is his backup for that matter, who could be wearing a Bears uniform in 06.

Dallas Cowboys - Drew Bledsoe. Looked good in pre-season, if he has time, he'll do the job. Better than Orton.

New York Giants - Eli Manning. Yeah he's better than Orton.

Philadelphia Eagles - Captain Dry - Heave... uhhh Donovan McNabb. Yeah he's better.

Washington Redskins - Patrick Ramsey. Not used well enough, if he was in the right system, he could be a top 10 QB. But he's better than Orton.

Detroit Lions - Joey Harrington - Yeah he's probably slightly better than Orton, needs to step up this year, I think he will.

Green Bay Packers - Brett Favre. Not even close.

Minnesota Vikings - Daunte Culpepper. Not even close.

Atlanta Falcons - Michael Vick. Not even close.

Carolina Panthers - Jake Delhomme. Gees didn't teams miss the boat here on him when he was a FA bout 2 or 3 years ago. Easily better than Orton.

New Orleans Saints - Aaron Brooks. Yeah he doesn't really get it, but his athletic skills make him better than Orton.

Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Brian Griese. If he throws as well as he did the 2nd half of last season, he's better than Orton. If not, probably not.

Arizona Cardinals - Kurt Warner. If he gets protected, better than Orton.

St. Louis Rams - Mark Bulger. Better than Orton.

San Francisco 49ers - Tim Rattay / Alex Smith. Right now Rattay's the starter. Smith struggled mightily in the pre - season. On this season alone, they'll probably be pretty close to Orton.

Seaatle Seahawks - Matt Hassellbeck. Not even close.

 

So on count of that, I counted 5 maybe 6 teams that have a QB situation around the Bears mark, but at least the majority of those teams have veterans. Hence my point on Orton, about expecting too much from him, too soon.

 

As for the injuries, well if the Bears D is so good, one, two or 3 injuries shouldn't be that huge for a team. There's more important spots were injuries can happen, like the QB spot, e.g the Titans last year with Steve McNair. Benson's gonna take a while to get used to the pace and the playbook etc. With Jones not being a power runner which is what Ron Turner wants, it's gonna be interesting to see how they move the football early on in the season. My guess is they'll probably struggle, with Washington who probably had a top 3 if not the best D in Football last season 1st up.

 

 

Its nice that you anointed just about everybody better then Orton(most likely they are, and you're giving to much credit to some of those QB bytheway)

But all of it is moot

.. nobody knows how bad or good Orton is..I actually like to see him play a few games in the reg season so i can see how good, or how horrible he is..

then maybe we can see if he's capable like Roesthlisberger or crappy..simple as that.He won't be great..best he will be is capable...

and that's all I'm askin for

 

and as for the injuries..it depends on what one or two, or 3 are injured..Maybe losing Boone or Johnson on the D-line won't be so bad cause their deep there..but losing pro-bowl caliber players all at the same time is gonna cripple alot of teams..Those type of players don't grow on trees..so that many injuries to pro-bowl type players(Urlacher, Tillman, M.Brown, Ogunleye,) is alot worse then losing Vasher, Boone, Hunter..serviceable players who do a great job but aren't in the top of their positions..

[DBAHO]

Its nice that you anointed just about everybody better then Orton(most likely they are, and you're giving to much credit to some of those QB bytheway)

But all of it is moot

.. nobody knows how bad or good Orton is..I actually like to see him play a few games in the reg season so i can see how good, or how horrible he is..

then maybe we can see if he's capable like Roesthlisberger or crappy..simple as that.He won't be great..best he will be is capable...

and that's all I'm askin for

 

and as for the injuries..it depends on what one or two, or 3 are injured..Maybe losing Boone or Johnson on the D-line won't be so bad cause their deep there..but losing pro-bowl caliber players all at the same time is gonna cripple alot of teams..Those type of players don't grow on trees..so that many injuries to pro-bowl type players(Urlacher, Tillman, M.Brown, Ogunleye,) is alot worse then losing Vasher, Boone,  Hunter..serviceable players who do a great job but aren't in the top of their positions..

Ok I'd just like to see how you rated all of those QB's then, just FWIW. Yeah Orton deserves time to step in and get used to the NFL, which is why Bears fans shouldn't be expecting to throw 300 yards with a high completion rate straight off the bat. But Roesthlisberger's season last year was almost an anomaly for rookie QB's. How many have you seen over the past say 5 years, come in, start straight away, and have instant success like Ben did? David Carr didn't. Joey Harrington didn't.

 

I don't know if Tillman's a Pro Bowl player, yet. Yeah he's got the size and speed you need, but he's got to put it together for a whole season (without getting injured). But if he can stay healthy and perform, he will be.

 

The Bears still had a decent pass rush without Ogunleye, with Brown and Harris. He'll add another element to the D-Line, if he can stay healthy though. But in a previous post, I wondered if the Bears are big enough to stop the run up front. You've got 2 pass rushers as the DE's, and Harris and Boone / Scott / Johnson. They're not huge guys, like your Ted Washington's etc. But all teams have dealt with injuries to their good players, some moreso than others. The Cowboys last season didn't have Darren Woodson at all, Terry Glenn got injured, Julius Jones missed half a season, so it happens.

[GoodAsGould]

Orton can be arguably better or = to the following QB's on that list.

 

Losman

Ferotte

Boller

Dilfer

Bledsoe

Ramsey

Harrington

Griese

Warner

Rattay/Smtih

Eli Manning

 

and yes im even putting in Big Ben... reason being is the running game is what carried that offense last year and now its banged up and he lost his favorite TD target... he also has looked horrible in pre-season.

 

I also understand im reaching with some of those... Warner if back to old self is much better and Eli should be better but he hasnt really proved much in the NFL yet. Also Bledsoe if gets 10 seconds is awesome lol.

[Spiff]

Losman would have been the #1 pick in the draft this year. As it was, he was drafted higher than Orton. I would still say he's better.

[GoodAsGould]

Losman would have been the #1 pick in the draft this year.  As it was, he was drafted higher than Orton.  I would still say he's better.

 

Yes he was drafted b4 him, but so was Alex Smith and Aaron Rodgers this year and Orton has looked much better than both of those players. Really Losman didnt play at all last year so he has as much to prove as Orton does.

[knightni]

Akili Smith, Ryan Leaf, Andre Ware and David Klingler were all drafted higher than Brady, Favre, Brees and Delhomme.

 

It's what you do when you get to the NFL, not where you get drafted.

[Heads22]

It's impossible to say that a guy who hasn't started 1 NFL game yet is equal to or better than anyone.

[SoxFan1]

Wow, just got back and found out I got badgered for stating facts....haha.

 

In all seriousness though, it is very hard to see this team being worse than last years team. I just dont see the logic there.

[OilCan]

WOOHOO..The Bears are ranked....32!!! So we're the worst team the world has ever seen...WOOHOO   :headshake

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/...5/scout.report/

 

Are those experts still thinking that Jonathan Quinn is still the QB?

 

Put down the hatorade guys. Their defense should be Top 10, the offense should be a little offensive again though. I say middle of the pack.

[Spiff]

Akili Smith, Ryan Leaf, Andre Ware and David Klingler were all drafted higher than Brady, Favre, Brees and Delhomme.

 

It's what you do when you get to the NFL, not where you get drafted.

 

Yeah, except that you are taking extreme cases of each and trying to disarm my argument. Peyton Manning was drafted ahead of Ryan Leaf. BOOM, COUNTERPOINT. The point is that since neither has started an NFL game yet, all you can go on is evaluation of talent, and the evaluation is that Losman is better than Orton, and it is one I would tend to agree with.

[DBAHO]

Here we go folks, ESPN rankings, Bears 29th;

 

This isn't necessarily a consensus opinion among our panel, but with a good defense and solid running game, the Bears might not be in as bad shape as people thought when Rex Grossman got hurt.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/powerranking...son=2005&week=1

[WHarris1]

Here we go folks, ESPN rankings, Bears 29th;

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/powerranking...son=2005&week=1

Meh, let them think that. I know you hate the Bears very strongly so I am talking to the wrong person, but the Bears WILL be a top 20 team.

Edited September 5, 2005 by WHarris1

[DBAHO]

Meh, let them think that.  I know you hate the Bears very strongly so I am talking to the wrong person, but the Bears WILL be a top 20 team.

Haha. Anyways on those rankings, how do the Cowboys go down 7 places after a 3-1 pre-season and after they signed Price? Oh and Willie, what teams do you see the Bears being ahead of if they're going to be a top 20?

[WHarris1]

Haha. Anyways on those rankings, how do the Cowboys go down 7 places after a 3-1 pre-season and after they signed Price? Oh and Willie, what teams do you see the Bears being ahead of if they're going to be a top 20? 

1. Miami

2. Cleveland

3. San Francisco

4. Detroit

5. Tennessee

6. Washington

7. Tampa Bay

8. Green Bay

9. New Orleans (not saying they have more talent just saving they will have a better year)

10. New York Giants

11. Detroit

12. Houston

[DBAHO]

1. Miami

2. Cleveland

3. San Francisco

4. Detroit

5. Tennessee

6. Washington

7. Tampa Bay

8. Green Bay

9. New Orleans (not saying they have more talent just saving they will have a better year)

10. New York Giants

11. Detroit

12. Houston

You said Detroit twice.

 

Anyways I think Houston, Detroit, the Giants, and the Bucs will be better than the Bears this year but that's JMHO. New Orleans no-one knows how they are going to respond.