sox, cubs talking today?

[Milkman delivers]

Well, the Red Sox got better because they picked up Graffanino. He's not a stud, but he definitely is fitting in better for them than Bellhorn, last I heard. The Yankees got better somehow with Chacon and Small, a guy from their own organization. The Angels got better by actually getting Vlad back at some point during the season. The A's got Payton and that pitcher from the Rockies (though I'm not sure how well he's performed for them). And an argument could be made that the White Sox only got worse this year with the loss of Thomas, and it shows in their mediocre to terrible play in the last 50 games.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Well, the Red Sox got better because they picked up Graffanino.  He's not a stud, but he definitely is fitting in better for them than Bellhorn, last I heard.  The Yankees got better somehow with Chacon and Small, a guy from their own organization.  The Angels got better by actually getting Vlad back at some point during the season.  The A's got Payton and that pitcher from the Rockies (though I'm not sure how well he's performed for them).  And an argument could be made that the White Sox only got worse this year with the loss of Thomas, and it shows in their mediocre to terrible play in the last 50 games.

 

 

The Red Sox and Yankees also have pitching problems. The A's are suspect in the pitching department after Zito and Harden. And Harden is not 100% healthy from what I hear. Even with Vlad, the Angels offense is no better than ours. Do the Sox have problems/questions? Yes. But so does every other team.

Edited September 1, 2005 by Jordan4life_2005

[Milkman delivers]

The Red Sox and Yankees also have pitching problems.  The A's are suspect in the pitching department after Zito and Harden.  And Harden is not 100% healthy from what I hear.  Even with Vlad,  the Angels offense is no better than ours.  Do the Sox have problems/questions?  Yes.  But so does every other team.

 

Yes, but those teams got better, whereas the Sox got worse. They're also right on our asses. We won't see the second round of the playoffs.

[GreatScott82]

You guys need to relax. We did after all aqcuire blum... we are set.

 

Time to end this Trade Winds section of Soxtalk, it was 4 long months of pure speculation. And all we got is a guy named Blum. Wow.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Yes, but those teams got better, whereas the Sox got worse.  They're also right on our asses.  We won't see the second round of the playoffs.

 

 

How did they get better? The Red Sox adding Graffanino makes them better? That's marginal improvement at best. And if Curt Schilling doesn't get his s*** together soon, they're in deep s***.

 

Yankees got better by adding Chacon? Once again, that's marginal improvement. Fact of the matter is the Yankees have big time pitching problems. Randy Johnson hasn't been Randy Johnson. Mussina has been solid. But after that?

 

How did the Angels get better? You say with Vlad back? He's been back for a while now. Have you checked their offensive numbers this season? They're very similar to ours. And they don't have the depth in their starting rotation that we do.

 

Sure losing Thomas hurts. But we've been without him for most of the season anyway. We more then showed we could win and then some without him.

 

The A's adding Jay Payton has helped. But they're just flat out playing great baseball. It's not because they added anybody.

Edited September 1, 2005 by Jordan4life_2005

[Milkman delivers]

How did they get better?  The Red Sox adding Graffanino makes them better?  That's marginal improvement at best.  And if Curt Schilling doesn't get his s*** together soon,  they're in deep s***. 

 

Yankees got better by adding Chacon?  Once again,  that's marginal improvement.  Fact of the matter is the Yankees have big time pitching problems.  Randy Johnson hasn't been Randy Johnson.  Mussina has been solid.  But after that?

 

How did the Angels get better?  You say with Vlad back?  He's been back for a while now  Have you checked their offensive numbers this season?  They're very similar to ours.  And they don't have the depth in their starting rotation that we do.

 

The A's adding Jay Payton has helped.  But they're just flat out playing great baseball.  It's not because they added anybody.

 

Chacon has been awesome for them. As little as Graff has helped the Red Sox, they still got better. We didn't get better at all. We got worse. It shows in our record and in the way they're playing. They all got better (however slightly, depending on how you look at it), and we got worse.

 

And I partially agree with you on the Angels, because I was basically reaching for anything with them.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Chacon has been awesome for them.  As little as Graff has helped the Red Sox, they still got better.  We didn't get better at all.  We got worse.  It shows in our record and in the way they're playing.  They all got better (however slightly, depending on how you look at it), and we got worse.

 

And I partially agree with you on the Angels, because I was basically reaching for anything with them.

 

 

Chacon has pitched pretty well for them up to this point. My point was, that a rotation of Johnson, Mussina, Chacon, ?, ? is not as good as Johnson, Mussina, Brown, Wright, Pavano, which is the rotation they had obviously hoped for all season.

 

As far as how were playing, yeah, we had a bad month. But I don't think one bad month overshadows the fact that we had the best record in baseball for 4 straight months. Even without Frank, this offense is still capable, and I stress capable, of being good enough as long as the pitching and defense are up to par.

[Milkman delivers]

Chacon has pitched pretty well for them up to this point.  My point was,  that a rotation of Johnson,  Mussina,  Chacon,  ?,  ? is not as good as Johnson,  Mussina,  Brown,  Wright,  Pavano,  which is the rotation they had obviously hoped for all season.

 

As far as how were playing,  yeah,  we had a bad month.  But I don't think one bad month overshadows the fact that we had the best record in baseball for 4 straight months.  Even without Frank,  this offense is still capable,  and I stress capable,  of being good enough as long as the pitching and defense are up to par.

 

Don't forget Small, who has also been great for them. It's not as good as what they started out with, but they've still gotten better as the season progressed.

 

We're about .500 in our last 50 games. This isn't just a bad month, we've been mediocre to bad for a while. And our hot start is definitely being overshadowed by their play of late. We used to have about 10 games on the nearest AL team, now they're right on our asses. Not to mention that we've lost half of our division lead. These guys are content because they had a great first half, and it seems you are, too. It's like they've been getting consistently worse this entire year, while other teams have been going to opposite way.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Chacon has pitched pretty well for them up to this point.  My point was,  that a rotation of Johnson,  Mussina,  Chacon,  ?,  ? is not as good as Johnson,  Mussina,  Brown,  Wright,  Pavano,  which is the rotation they had obviously hoped for all season.

 

As far as how were playing,  yeah,  we had a bad month.  But I don't think one bad month overshadows the fact that we had the best record in baseball for 4 straight months.  Even without Frank,  this offense is still capable,  and I stress capable,  of being good enough as long as the pitching and defense are up to par.

 

Apparently picking up Graffanino makes up for the injuries to Foulke, Schilling, and Wade Miller and adding a few decent Chacon starts makes up for Pavano and Wright being hurt, along with both teams having subpar bullpens. Yeah, they got sooo much better. :rolly

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Don't forget Small, who has also been great for them.

 

Jenks >>> small

[Milkman delivers]

Apparently picking up Graffanino makes up for the injuries to Foulke, Schilling, and Wade Miller and adding a few decent Chacon starts makes up for Pavano and Wright being hurt, along with both teams having subpar bullpens.  Yeah, they got sooo much better.  :rolly

 

So, why have they played better as the season progressed and we've played worse?

[Jimbo's Drinker]

So, why have they played better as the season progressed and we've played worse?

They score runs

[SleepyWhiteSox]

So, why have they played better as the season progressed and we've played worse?

 

The players they already had started playing better, not because of their marginal additions.

 

Same with us. No more timely hitting=more losses.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Don't forget Small, who has also been great for them.  It's not as good as what they started out with, but they've still gotten better as the season progressed.

 

We're about .500 in our last 50 games.  This isn't just a bad month, we've been mediocre to bad for a while.  And our hot start is definitely being overshadowed by their play of late.  We used to have about 10 games on the nearest AL team, now they're right on our asses.  Not to mention that we've lost half of our division lead.  These guys are content because they had a great first half, and it seems you are, too.  It's like they've been getting consistently worse this entire year, while other teams have been going to opposite way.

 

 

Well, we were 68-35 coming into August. Our high point of the season was 74-39, 35 games over .500 as of August 10th. Since then, we've lost 13 of 19. So, that's pretty much been our only long stretch of bad baseball all year. Hopefully, it won't continue.

[southsideirish71]

The Red Sox and Yankees also have pitching problems.  The A's are suspect in the pitching department after Zito and Harden.  And Harden is not 100% healthy from what I hear.  Even with Vlad,  the Angels offense is no better than ours.  Do the Sox have problems/quesions?  Yes.  But so does every other team.

 

If by suspect Oakland pitching staff you mean that their team ERA is better than ours I guess they are very suspect.

 

The Angel offense is hitting nearly 10 points higher as a team than ours. Thats a big difference. Vlad is a game changer. We dont have one of those.

 

We could of gotten better, however. But we didnt. So now we have to hope our hitting gets their act together in this next month. Or the playoffs will be an issue.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

We could of gotten better, however.  But we didnt.  So now we have to hope our hitting gets their act together in this next month.  Or the playoffs will be an issue.

 

I honestly don't think it was because of lack of effort, and I do think Kenny was ready to overpay.

[Milkman delivers]

If by suspect Oakland pitching staff you mean that their team ERA is better than ours I guess they are very suspect. 

 

The Angel offense is hitting nearly 10 points higher as a team than ours.  Thats a big difference.  Vlad is a game changer.  We dont have one of those.

 

We could of gotten better, however.  But we didnt.  So now we have to hope our hitting gets their act together in this next month.  Or the playoffs will be an issue.

 

Thanks for the help.

 

And I'm sure our hitters will teach themselves to hit in the following weeks. The irony would be if our hitters did great in the postseason and our pitchers choked.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

And I'm sure our hitters will teach themselves to hit in the following weeks.  The irony would be if our hitters did great in the postseason and our pitchers choked.

 

How about just hitting like they did at the start of the season?

[Jordan4life_2007]

If by suspect Oakland pitching staff you mean that their team ERA is better than ours I guess they are very suspect.

 

Well, our era has gone up a bit with the poor pitching performances in Texas. But, on paper atleast, I'll go with Buehrle, Garland, Garcia, Hernandez over Zito, a less then 100% Harden, Blanton and Haren. Also, the A's couldn't win a playoff series when they had Mulder, Zito, and Hudson. So forgive me if I think their current rotation is a little suspect.

 

The Angel offense is hitting nearly 10 points higher as a team than ours.  Thats a big difference.  Vlad is a game changer.  We dont have one of those.

 

So is Barry Bonds, and how many rings does he have? It's a team game. And even if their average is higher, they've scored a whopping 6 more runs than we have. Their obp is not much higher than ours, either.

 

We could of gotten better, however.  But we didnt.  So now we have to hope our hitting gets their act together in this next month.  Or the playoffs will be an issue.

 

 

We tried to get better, and unfortunately, there wasn't much that could be done. This was an awful market for buyers this year. Not adding anybody certainly wasn't from a lack of effort on Kenny's part. And yes, the hitting does need to step up. As does the pitching and defense.

[YASNY]

This team was built without Frank Thomas. That was plan as they did not know if he'd play any this year. We got a bonus of having Frank for 24 or so games. This team is not "worse" because we "lost" Thomas. He wasn't counted on in the first place.

[southsideirish71]

This team was built without Frank Thomas.  That was plan as they did not know if he'd play any this year.  We got a bonus of having Frank for 24 or so games.  This team is not "worse" because we "lost" Thomas.  He wasn't counted on in the first place.

 

We hit in the 250s without Frank. We hit in the 270's with Frank. And without Frank and Pods we hit in the 230s.

 

I have a funny feeling that September will resemble the 250's.

[YASNY]

We hit in the 250s without Frank.  We hit in the 270's with Frank.  And without Frank and Pods we hit in the 230s. 

 

I have a funny feeling that September will resemble the 250's.

 

As I said, we got a bonus by having Frank for 24 games. The fact remains that they never counted on having Frank in the lineup this year.

[southsideirish71]

As I said, we got a bonus by having Frank for 24 games.  The fact remains that they never counted on having Frank in the lineup this year.

 

 

No I think they did count on Big Frank. How many times in ST did we hear we are going to get a big bat back in the lineup around the middle of the year. Frank Thomas is going to be our big mid season deal. I dont think they counted on him getting reinjuried so quickly.

 

Now the correct way to look at it is, we won without Frank and we can win again without him also. But the offense was bad back in April and May and we will have to deal with it and hope that the pitchers can pitch their asses off in the playoffs and our hitters can raise their game a bit.

[Milkman delivers]

This team was built without Frank Thomas.  That was plan as they did not know if he'd play any this year.  We got a bonus of having Frank for 24 or so games.  This team is not "worse" because we "lost" Thomas.  He wasn't counted on in the first place.

 

Just because we didn't think he'd be here doesn't mean his loss didn't make us worse. It clearly made us worse.

[YASNY]

No I think they did count on Big Frank.  How many times in ST did we hear we are going to get a big bat back in the lineup around the middle of the year.  Frank Thomas is going to be our big mid season deal.  I dont think they counted on him getting reinjuried so quickly. 

 

Now the correct way to look at it is, we won without Frank and we can win again without him also.  But the offense was bad back in April and May and we will have to deal with it and hope that the pitchers can pitch their asses off in the playoffs and our hitters can raise their game a bit.

 

You didn't hear that from KW or Ozzie. You may have heard it around here, but not from the ballclub.