Well...

[soxhawks]

just get to the playoffs and anything can happen

[Ozzie Montana]

Watching Baseball Tonight on ESPN, wouldn't you know the collapse talk has already begun. Although Reynolds and Kurkstan believe our pitching won't endure a slide such as that of the 64' Phillies, it's started--people have noticed our dwindling lead and will be making comparisons to past clubs until we clinch.

Good. Maybe this will fire up this team because they know if they give all this away they will fall into the category of those elite clubs who choked sooo badly and will carry all that shame with them. Then they'll be recognized alright.

Edited September 11, 2005 by Ozzie Montana

[Gene Honda Civic]

Watching Baseball Tonight on ESPN, wouldn't you know the collapse talk has already begun. Although Reynolds and Kurkstan believe our pitching won't endure a slide such as that of the 64' Phillies, it's started--people have noticed our dwindling lead and will be making comparisons to past clubs until we clinch.

I don't fault them for bringing it up at all. Who have we beaten since August.

 

Off the top of my head...

3 wins against the yankees.

1 against boston.

2 against Minnesota. -- who has no offense.

 

The rest of our wins have come against teams well out of the race...

[LosMediasBlancas]

Is AJ Pieryznski still alive?

 

He's had two homers since August 1st, and hasn't had a hit in 18 ABs. 

 

If this team doesn't go to KC and beat the living hell out of 'em, heads need to roll.

 

 

Beating KC will mean nothing. The Sox are a good team, but just that. They can beat average and bad teams and really struggle with very good teams. This team needs survive the rest of the regular season, learn from it's losses to good teams and adjust for the playoffs.

[nitetrain8601]

Yup I saw that too.  If they collapse, a lot of people in the sox organization should be fired.  They would of set this organization back a while.  We will be a joke.

 

That's why I think it was kind of premature to give Ozzie that 3 year deal. Wait until the whole season is over to see what he does. I've already said, I think Ozzie is a really crappy manager, but a great motivator and intangibles type of guy.

[southsideirish71]

That's why I think it was kind of premature to give Ozzie that 3 year deal. Wait until the whole season is over to see what he does. I've already said, I think Ozzie is a really crappy manager, but a great motivator and intangibles type of guy.

 

 

Kind of like Tony Pena. Another manager who motivated his team into a big lead, who crumbled at the end and wound up in third.

 

Thank god we had such a lead.

Edited September 11, 2005 by southsideirish71

[nitetrain8601]

Kind of like Tony Pena.  Another manager who motivated his team into a big lead, who crumbled at the end and wound up in third.

 

Thank god we had such a lead.

 

Yep. I've been saying that for some time. He should be a bench coach. Honestly, I rather take Baker over him. Baker knows how to manage talent. When he has none, he struggles(or injuries). Ozzie could have Manny Ramirez and he'll bench him every other day. Ozzie should just be a bench coach or go back to 3rd base. Gimme Dusty over him any day of the week. It's not like he has a bigger mouth than Ozzie.

 

BTW, put me in Jenks' fanclub.

Edited September 12, 2005 by nitetrain8601

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Yep. I've been saying that for some time. He should be a bench coach. Honestly, I rather take Baker over him. Baker knows how to manage talent. When he has none, he struggles(or injuries). Ozzie could have Manny Ramirez and he'll bench him every other day. Ozzie should just be a bench coach or go back to 3rd base. Gimme Dusty over him any day of the week. It's not like he has a bigger mouth than Ozzie.

 

 

:headshake

[nitetrain8601]

:headshake

 

It's true. Ozzie has to be dead at the bottom when it comes to managerial decisions made.

[mmmmmbeeer]

I don't fault them for bringing it up at all. Who have we beaten since August.

 

Off the top of my head...

3 wins against the yankees.

1 against boston.

2 against Minnesota. -- who has no offense.

 

The rest of our wins have come against teams well out of the race...

 

We played phenomonal ball in the first half, beating good teams and weak teams. This second half the team looks tired and has battled some injuries, not to mention the mental letdown that comes with a 15.5 game lead. The ONLY reason our decline has been as noticeable as it has is because CLE is playing just f***ing ridiculous baseball since they were swept by the Sox in July.

[kapkomet]

We played phenomonal ball in the first half, beating good teams and weak teams.  This second half the team looks tired and has battled some injuries, not to mention the mental letdown that comes with a 15.5 game lead.  The ONLY reason our decline has been as noticeable as it has is because CLE is playing just f***ing ridiculous baseball since they were swept by the Sox in July.

That I agree with. Also, I started this thread, because usually I'm the one that is doing the "peptalk" about how it's going to be ok.

 

Bottom line, they're TIRED. You can see it.

 

I hope that when the air gets a little colder, they wake up.

[fathom]

I don't think it's as much that they're tired as it is that they're not energized. This team clearly took the foot off of the accelerator around July 31st, and outside of a stretch against a struggling Tigers team, they haven't been able to regain any swagger at all. I know people got sick as hell of me saying it, but the Sox aren't talented enough to try and coast to the division. While Ozzie and Cooper were busy setting, but not setting, their postseason rotation, the team on the field completely got away from what they were doing great in the first half of the year.

[Guest JimH]

Baker knows how to manage talent.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

[Guest JimH]

While Ozzie and Cooper were busy setting, but not setting, their postseason rotation, the team on the field completely got away from what they were doing great in the first half of the year.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So this whole slide is Ozzie Guillen's and Don Cooper's fault?

 

I would guess again, and maybe lay it at the feet of the players who aren't getting it done.

 

Edit: this 4 game slide, after a 7 game winning streak.

Edited September 12, 2005 by JimH

[fathom]

So this whole slide is Ozzie Guillen's and Don Cooper's fault?

 

I would guess again, and maybe lay it at the feet of the players who aren't getting it done.

 

I never said that it's just their fault. Go back and look at a post from a month ago, I feel like this has been a total organizational collapse. From the GM to the Manager to the coaches to the players. All I know is that I just hope KW isn't the scapegoat if the Sox don't make the playoffs.

[Guest JimH]

I never said that it's just their fault.  Go back and look at a post from a month ago, I feel like this has been a total organizational collapse.  From the GM to the Manager to the coaches to the players.  All I know is that I just hope KW isn't the scapegoat if the Sox don't make the playoffs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Just wanted to clarify. The part of your post I quoted sure seemed to implicate Guillen and Cooper, and most of your posts implicate Guillen.

 

When you lose 6-1 and 10-5, generally it ain't the manager, all the "they should have hit Dye 3rd instead of Everett, they should have put Cotts in the 7th instead of Marte, why does Timo ever get to play" rants aside.

[greg775]

Beating KC will mean nothingBeating KC will mean nothing

 

--Beating KC will mean a lot. We need to win this division.

Cleveland is ridiculously good right now. The start of tonight's game showed AGAIN how hot the Indians are.

We are playing s*** baseball; we're not pitching.

Damn why didn't Cora hold the runner the other night and why didn't Freddie beat the s*** Royals?

We are toast right now.

I wonder if we can turn it around and win the division.

[fathom]

Just wanted to clarify.  The part of your post I quoted sure seemed to implicate Guillen and Cooper, and most of your posts implicate Guillen.

 

When you lose 6-1 and 10-5, generally it ain't the manager, all the "they should have hit Dye 3rd instead of Everett, they should have put Cotts in the 7th instead of Marte, why does Timo ever get to play" rants aside.

 

I think when a team starts to slide like the Sox have, you need a strong manager at the top to keep everyone together. From my point of view, Ozzie has not done a good job at that between the attendance comments, Buehrle's whining about cheating, etc. There are some games where we don't have a chance, no matter who's batting 3rd. However, I've never thought of Ozzie as a manager who can make decisions during a game that will help the team win. All I know is that a lot of managers could look good with a bullpen of Cotts, Politte, Jenks, and Hermanson.

[mmmmmbeeer]

I never said that it's just their fault.  Go back and look at a post from a month ago, I feel like this has been a total organizational collapse.  From the GM to the Manager to the coaches to the players.  All I know is that I just hope KW isn't the scapegoat if the Sox don't make the playoffs.

 

I respect the fact that you've got questions about this team, but I read the words "don't make the playoffs" so much in your posts that I am completely lost on how you throw about those words so easily. Have you looked at the #'s? Do you realize that our woes in the recent months would be nothing compared to the collapse that would have to occur in the next 25 days to eliminate us from the playoffs? I mean, look at the schedule, man. Look at the wild card race. Unless CLE takes 6/6 from us coupled with poor play against KC and MIN (atleast 2 sweeps) we're going to be in the playoffs. Now what we do in the playoffs is completely debatable, but reading your posts about "don't make the playoffs" make me feel like I'm watching a bad episode of 20/20 discussing the chances of two meteors colliding in the earth's atmosphere resulting in huge chunks of debris destroying major cities...could it happen, sure....is it really something worth discussing, no.

[Colorado Sox Fan]

Is AJ Pieryznski still alive?

 

He's had two homers since August 1st, and hasn't had a hit in 18 ABs. 

 

If this team doesn't go to KC and beat the living hell out of 'em, heads need to roll.

Sould be "DP" not "AJ".

[fathom]

Sould be "DP" not "AJ".

 

AJP hit into an amazing amount of double plays last year. We're lucky he's only hit into the amount he has so far this year.

[greg775]

Geez fathom, I don't get the criticism of Oz.

When AJ isn't hitting and Iguchi isn't hitting and Everett isn't hitting and we're playing Blum all the time, we are a horses*** lineup.

 

The bottom line is it isn't Oz's fault that Mark, Jon and Freddie haven't been good of late.

If they are not dominating and we're not catching the ball, we're going to lose with our s*** lineup.

[fathom]

I respect the fact that you've got questions about this team, but I read the words "don't make the playoffs" so much in your posts that I am completely lost on how you throw about those words so easily.  Have you looked at the #'s?  Do you realize that our woes in the recent months would be nothing compared to the collapse that would have to occur in the next 25 days to eliminate us from the playoffs?  I mean, look at the schedule, man.  Look at the wild card race. Unless CLE takes 6/6 from us coupled with poor play against KC and MIN (atleast 2 sweeps) we're going to be in the playoffs.  Now what we do in the playoffs is completely debatable, but reading your posts about "don't make the playoffs" make me feel like I'm watching a bad episode of 20/20 discussing the chances of two meteors colliding in the earth's atmosphere resulting in huge chunks of debris destroying major cities...could it happen, sure....is it really something worth discussing, no.

 

I know all the numbers, and I also know our remaining schedule. I look at the Indians team right now, and I expect they'll win about 70 pct of the rest of their games. I also don't think we match up very well with them due to their outstanding offense. We're going to have to be able to outslug them in a few games to win. I can't see us beating them 1-0 again this season.

[Colorado Sox Fan]

Is AJ Pieryznski still alive?

 

He's had two homers since August 1st, and hasn't had a hit in 18 ABs. 

 

If this team doesn't go to KC and beat the living hell out of 'em, heads need to roll.

Sould be "DP" not "AJ".

[fathom]

Geez fathom, I don't get the criticism of Oz.

When AJ isn't hitting and Iguchi isn't hitting and Everett isn't hitting and we're playing Blum all the time, we are a horses*** lineup.

 

The bottom line is it isn't Oz's fault that Mark, Jon and Freddie haven't been good of late.

If they are not dominating and we're not catching the ball, we're going to lose with our s*** lineup.

 

Or maybe he shouldn't have used 100 pct of what's in the tank for the starting pitcher nearly every game this season? How many times this season could we have afforded to take out a starting pitcher an inning earlier to maybe save some stamina for the rest of the season. All I know is I've never seen a team with a double digit lead still pitch their starting pitcher basically the maximum amount of innings during their start. We have a very good, deep bullpen....but Ozzie seems intent on making sure he gets 7 innings out of his starter every night.