The Bears have found their future QB

[hammerhead johnson]

Its easy to make an argument sway one way or the other. Where are the other QB's on your year by year list.  Where are the Qb's who won titles.  You mentioned a select few who were great and didnt win a title, how about the ones who won a title and werent great, there are some of those too.  Fact is, being a first round draft pick, does not make you a great player.  We have played several first round QB's and they were busts.  In fact, if you want to make a list by year, why dont you list the first round busts as well.

 

That is not the point.

 

The point is that you're more likely to be an impact player if you're chosen higher in the draft. What do you think DBAHO was talking about?

[hammerhead johnson]

what exactly is your list anyway, I cant find any correlation between the players you listed???  Some won titles, some didnt, some are first round, some arent.

 

Rock, do you get confused easily, lol?

[Soxbadger]

Grossman is a more talented QB.

 

The only problem is injuries.

 

But they can happen to every player, so all things being considered I would bet on Grossman over Orton.

 

:shrugs:

 

SB

[SoxFan1]

Here are my thoughts on the game....

 

Defensively:

 

Briggs is quickly becoming a top LB in the NFL.

 

Urlacher is STILL a top LB in the NFL.

 

Vasher is better than most thought.

 

Azumah is not 100%.

 

Ogunleye is BACK.

 

Brown and Waly are a GREAT DE combo in the pass rush.

 

Vasher is better than most thought.

 

Brown is still a great run-stuffer for a Safety.

 

Vasher is better than most thought.

 

 

Offensively:

 

Orton WILL make mistakes but his poise was AWESOME.

 

The O-Line is better than most thought.

 

Moose will NOT have as good a year as last year. 65-90 Receptions, 650-1000 yards.

 

Benson better get his ass ahead of the game and QUICK.

 

Bradley will be a valuable WR in the NFL.

 

Th O-Line is better than most thought.

[GoodAsGould]

I donno Muhsin prob would of had 40 yards more if he didnt drop 2 balls which would make his stats look a lot better. Also Vasher is great when it comes to getting interceptions but he isnt that good of a cover CB. Also for this team to succeed Azumah needs to be healthy he got burned bad by Santana Moss that one play.

[SoxFan1]

I donno Muhsin prob would of had 40 yards more if he didnt drop 2 balls which would make his stats look a lot better.  Also Vasher is great when it comes to getting interceptions but he isnt that good of a cover CB.  Also for this team to succeed Azumah needs to be healthy he got burned bad by Santana Moss that one play.

I agree. Moose was the target all game. The pass in the 4th quarter would have easily added 20 yards and the pass he "dropped" aka fumbled up the middle would have been close to 30. I do like his ability to get extra yardage and yards after the catch though. IMO, the Bears can only go up and get better.

[Chisoxfn]

I agree. Moose was the target all game. The pass in the 4th quarter would have easily added 20 yards and the pass he "dropped" aka fumbled up the middle would have been close to 30. I do like his ability to get extra yardage and yards after the catch though. IMO, the Bears can only go up and get better.

I really can't call that a drop. On a sidenote, that was a catch and a fumble and it should of been called that. The game never said who recovered the fumble either.

 

His only other drop was on a 15 yard catch on the sideline and it was on that 3rd and long play. Definately catchable. Still he made some nice catches too and has great hands. He's gonna be a major asset and will have over 1000 yards as long as he stays healthy.

[SoxFan1]

I really can't call that a drop.  On a sidenote, that was a catch and a fumble and it should of been called that.  The game never said who recovered the fumble either. 

 

His only other drop was on a 15 yard catch on the sideline and it was on that 3rd and long play.  Definately catchable.  Still he made some nice catches too and has great hands.  He's gonna be a major asset and will have over 1000 yards as long as he stays healthy.

I don't know about the 1000 yards but both were definitely catchable. I was watching the Panthers/Saints game and I saw a much smaller Steve Smith make the same catch up the middle and haul it in. I'm not saying it is an easy play or that Smith is better than Moose but that should have been caught and held on to. And if the Skins DID challenge or the play was called correctly, it would have been a catch and a fumble recovered my the Skins at about midfield. And the only reason that he dropped the ball on the 3rd and long was because of a low throw and it was behind him. Body one way, ball the other...not gonna work.

[DBAHO]

Its easy to make an argument sway one way or the other. Where are the other QB's on your year by year list.  Where are the Qb's who won titles.  You mentioned a select few who were great and didnt win a title, how about the ones who won a title and werent great, there are some of those too.  Fact is, being a first round draft pick, does not make you a great player.  We have played several first round QB's and they were busts.  In fact, if you want to make a list by year, why dont you list the first round busts as well.

Having a great 1st round QB doesn't automatically gift you a superbowl. Look at the Colts. They have a wonderful offense with Peyton Manning, but can't stop anybody on defense (sorry Greasy).

 

The fact is though, QB is the most IMPORTANT position in football. That's why you see so many teams over the past few years in Houston, Detroit, San Francisco, Cincinatti etc. using their top pick on the best QB available to them. And as the league has shown over the past few years, you need some resemblence of a passing game to be successful.

 

And yep, hammer hit the nail on the head, you're more likely to be successful if you're a higher pick than a lower one. Rex Grossman was a 1st round pick because he deserved to be.

[RockRaines]

Having a great 1st round QB doesn't automatically gift you a superbowl. Look at the Colts. They have a wonderful offense with Peyton Manning, but can't stop anybody on defense (sorry Greasy). 

 

The fact is though, QB is the most IMPORTANT position in football. That's why you see so many teams over the past few years in Houston, Detroit, San Francisco, Cincinatti etc. using their top pick on the best QB available to them. And as the league has shown over the past few years, you need some resemblence of a passing game to be successful.

 

And yep, hammer hit the nail on the head, you're more likely to be successful if you're a higher pick than a lower one. Rex Grossman was a 1st round pick because he deserved to be.

And Kyle Orton was every bit as good statistically as Grossman was, since he played a shorter time though Orton comes up short in every category. He even played for a school that did not have the talent available to them like FLA. Not only that, but Orton was the Heisman favorite until he got hurt and limped through the second half of the season. Since you guys are hung up on having a first round QB, and since Rex was drafted in the first round we owe him something. Orton deserved to be drafted sooner than he did, and his injury cost him that money, and that spot. It is PROVEN that more late round QB's have won titles than first round picks, and I feel damn comfortable with Orton as our hope in that category. Paper Grossman wont see the field ever again for the bears, unless Orton gets hurt.

Edited September 13, 2005 by RockRaines

[DBAHO]

And Kyle Orton was every bit as good statistically as Grossman was, since he played a shorter time though Orton comes up short in every category.  He even played for a school that did not have the talent available to them like FLA.  Not only that, but Orton was the Heisman favorite until he got hurt and limped through the second half of the season.  Since you guys are  hung up on having a first round QB, and since Rex was drafted in the first round we owe him something.  Orton deserved to be drafted sooner than he did, and his injury cost him that money, and that spot.  It is PROVEN that more late round QB's have won titles than first round picks, and I feel damn comfortable with Orton as our hope in that category.  Paper Grossman wont see the field ever again for the bears, unless Orton gets hurt.

But how many teams today that are successful hav 1st round QB's, let's have a look at them;

Atlanta - Michael Vick

Philly - Donovan McNabb

Indy - Peyton Manning

Pitts - Ben Roesthlisberger

Jacksonville - Byron Leftwich

 

I know all Bears fans think Orton was a steal, and someday he may prove that. But right now, he's a rookie (and hardly any rookie QB's who have started from day one have had success in year 1), and he was passed on by almost more than 100 teams in the draft.

 

Over the past 5 years, the Patriots have won the majority of the Super Bowls win Tom Brady, a siutation that they pretty much lucked into. But almost every other team that has challenged them has had a 1st round QB.

 

And I do think Grossman will see the field again this year if he's healthy. Like I said before, Orton's not going to do anything special, not with only 1 good receiver, and an O-Line that is having trouble with run blocking, which will allow opposing defences to blitz all day long. Maybe Grossman was in a better system at Florida, and he had more weapons, but he produced, the coaching staff like him, and he deserves a chance to show what he can do in Ron Turner's system. You'd hate to see him go to another team and flourish, because it could very well happen if they're not careful in handling the situation.

[RockRaines]

DB-how can you propose giving Grossman a start, or "giving him a chance" when he has had his chance, got injured three times, and has bascially been a bust.

 

Orton will have more NFL experience by the time Grossman is ready, and will already know the offense and fit in with the line. There is no reason to give him a chance, first rounder or not.

[GoodAsGould]

Well the first time he got injured didnt really mean much since it was the last game of the season. And usually players dont lose their spot because of injury. When healthy Grossman is a more talented QB than Orton and I think he can throw a better deep ball and a smarter deep ball 2... Orton was throwing it long in triple coverage a couple times.

 

If this team is clicking and the offense is doing good Id say we should stick with Orton for the year but if were doing just ok and the offense still sucks give the QB position back to Grossman. Than in camp next season those 2 can battle out for the starting job and whoevr loses will be our backup.

[AddisonStSox]

I think the bears will be fine this season and their were a ton of positive things from todays loss.  Here are a few of them:

-Kyle Orton looked terrific.  He was on fire in the 2nd half.

-Benson looked pretty good.

-Muhamad was great

-Gage was very good

-That defense was dynamite

 

If they can keep from making stupid mistakes like 3 false starts in a row than they can win this division.

 

 

That's all I got for now. I'll be back.

[RockRaines]

  When healthy Grossman is a more talented QB than Orton and I think he can throw a better deep ball and a smarter deep ball 2... Orton was throwing it long in triple coverage a couple times.

 

I dont understand where you get that from. He has barely played, and we had marginal success. It was Orton's first game, and he started the season opener, in the largest stadium in the NFL, as a rookie. I dont think Grossman has ever been in a situation like that. And I think he played great, and looked poised. I dont understand the lovefest for a QB that has let us down 2 years in a row.

[AddisonStSox]

I dont understand where you get that from.  He has barely played, and we had marginal success.  It was Orton's first game, and he started the season opener, in the largest stadium in the NFL, as a rookie.  I dont think Grossman has ever been in a situation like that.  And I think he played great, and looked poised.  I dont understand the lovefest for a QB that has let us down 2 years in a row.

 

Grossman's future is not with the Chicago Bears. That is a statement I would bank a hat-eating on, but, with the way the Bears have absolutely butchered the quarterback situation this season, I have no reason to believe they won't invest more time and money his way.

[MurcieOne]

Rex Grossman is signed through next year... just want everyone to remember that.

 

While i dont think the job is his and his alone.... I don't think Orton is going to perform good enough to keep Rex from playing on the Bears again.

[RockRaines]

Rex Grossman is signed through next year... just want everyone to remember that.

 

While i dont think the job is his and his alone.... I don't think Orton is going to perform good enough to keep Rex from playing on the Bears again.

What makes you think that he isnt good enough? He had ONe start, and performed nicely in a tough situation. I challenge you and say Rex isnt tough enough to play in the NFL. Refute that

[Spiff]

Orton's rating was 52.8, I don't know why people are getting so excited.

[DBAHO]

Orton's rating was 52.8, I don't know why people are getting so excited.

Yep, and you know opposing defences are just going to double Muhammed, and blitz all day long, and dare Orton to make a big play.

 

The fact is, the Bears only scored 7 points. No matter what defense they're playing against, that's really gotta improve and stat.

[RockRaines]

Yep, and you know opposing defences are just going to double Muhammed, and blitz all day long, and dare Orton to make a big play.

 

The fact is, the Bears only scored 7 points. No matter what defense they're playing against, that's really gotta improve and stat.

That was Orton's first start, on a visiting field, against one of the best defenses in the league, with no running game.

 

Your boy Grossman, in his second season posted a stellar QB rating of 67.9

 

I love how Grossman is the second coming, and Orton is the horrible rookie. Grossman didnt do anything in his starts, and played against some weak defenses. Orton started the season opener, as a rookie (Grossman never did that) and performed well with no running game. Grossman still had bad numbers even in his second season. 1 td, 3 INT in three games. If Orton has not improved on that by his third game in his second season, I will think this over. Until then, Orton looks better.

[DBAHO]

That was Orton's first start, on a visiting field, against one of the best defenses in the league, with no running game.

 

Your boy Grossman, in his second season posted a stellar QB rating of 67.9

 

I love how Grossman is the second coming, and Orton is the horrible rookie.  Grossman didnt do anything in his starts, and played against some weak defenses.  Orton started the season opener, as a rookie (Grossman never did that)  and performed well with no running game.  Grossman still had bad numbers even in his second season. 1 td, 3 INT in three games.  If Orton has not improved on that by his third game in his second season, I will think this over.  Until then, Orton looks better.

Grossman ain't my boy, since I have no infatuation with the Chicago Bears whatsoever.

 

Don't forget in his 2nd season, Rex Grossman had to play under Terry Shea's system. How many QB's looked good under that? Would Kyle Orton? Doesn't Grossman deserve the chance to show what he can do under Ron Turner?

 

And also, the Bears O-Line when Grossman was behind center would have been in the bottom 5 in the NFL. I don't care which QB you are (unless you're Michael Vick and can run all day). You're gonna get pressured and sacked a lot, and that hurts your numbers, big time.

[AirScott]

That was Orton's first start, on a visiting field, against one of the best defenses in the league, with no running game.

 

Your boy Grossman, in his second season posted a stellar QB rating of 67.9

 

I love how Grossman is the second coming, and Orton is the horrible rookie.  Grossman didnt do anything in his starts, and played against some weak defenses.  Orton started the season opener, as a rookie (Grossman never did that)  and performed well with no running game.  Grossman still had bad numbers even in his second season. 1 td, 3 INT in three games.  If Orton has not improved on that by his third game in his second season, I will think this over.  Until then, Orton looks better.

Grossman's only considered the second coming to some people because of how terrible Quinn played last year after Grossman went down. Orton could become a quality NFL QB in a few years, but isn't now. there was no running game because Washington knew that Orton's a rookie, and the best way to beat this team, it seems, is to force them to beat you through the air.

[RockRaines]

Grossman ain't my boy, since I have no infatuation with the Chicago Bears whatsoever.

 

Don't forget in his 2nd season, Rex Grossman had to play under Terry Shea's system. How many QB's looked good under that? Would Kyle Orton? Doesn't Grossman deserve the chance to show what he can do under Ron Turner?

 

And also, the Bears O-Line when Grossman was behind center would have been in the bottom 5 in the NFL. I don't care which QB you are (unless you're Michael Vick and can run all day). You're gonna get pressured and sacked a lot, and that hurts your numbers, big time.

He was sacked less than twice a game when he started last year, and we led the NFL in rushing, so the O line couldnt have been that bad. And who is to say Turner is that much better of a Coordinator? We have no sample size to confirm that, other than the fact that we have no running game. Grossman doesnt deserve anything. They gave him the starting role, didnt bring in a capable backup because they didnt want to "harm" his confidence, and he has done nothing but let the bears down. He is done as a starter with this team.

[Kalapse]

Grossman ain't my boy, since I have no infatuation with the Chicago Bears whatsoever.

 

Don't forget in his 2nd season, Rex Grossman had to play under Terry Shea's system. How many QB's looked good under that? Would Kyle Orton? Doesn't Grossman deserve the chance to show what he can do under Ron Turner?

 

And also, the Bears O-Line when Grossman was behind center would have been in the bottom 5 in the NFL. I don't care which QB you are (unless you're Michael Vick and can run all day). You're gonna get pressured and sacked a lot, and that hurts your numbers, big time.

IMO, you should just stick to the Cowboys and stop talking about the Bears because you are seriously lacking insight when it comes to this team.