Marte--To be suspended or put on DL

[The Beast]

Havent been watching to much White Sox baseball, have we?

I've been watching somewhat. I get busy in September.

 

All I know is that we need to get to the playoffs first. We can't lolly gag and expect to make it. After all, we play 6 games against the Indians.

[beck72]

I would believe once this bulls*** gets figured out, he'll be on the playoff roster.

 

All things being equal [no attitude problems, injuries etc] Vizcaino is about the only guy Marte could replace. I'd rather see BMac being the 11th pitcher on the playoff roster than Marte. Esp. seeing how both he and Jenks have much better splits vs LH hitters than RH hitters.

 

Add in the fact that Marte may have burned some bridges, "losing" him isn't that big a deal. In fact, it may bring the team closer if Marte is a bit of a head case.

[Dick Allen]

So thenw hy all the drama?

I think Ozzie and KW are upset that Marte hasn't been very revealing about his injuries. But even then, this doesn't make sense. How do you go from being called the top lefty in the bullpen by the manager after you stink up the joint against KC, to being kicked off the team after hitting 2 guys? Marte just doesn't seem to be the type of person to go off on anyone. Maybe he did. He couldn't have said anything more to Ozzie than Frank Thomas screamed at Manuel a couple of years ago, and Frank never was asked to go home. I think it may simply being a case of Ozzie concluding that Marte isn't his type of guy, and just not wanting him around anymore. I suppose its his perrogative, but if winning is what truly mattered here, I would think having Marte take a little rest, get some treatment and start throwing again in 10 days or so could be the cure for what ails him. See what he's like in 10-15 days. If he can't perform then declare him dead.

[fathom]

I think what's gone awfully wrong, to use your phrase, is the common ups and downs of a long grinding baseball season.  Even Cleveland, the team you've been gushing over for the last 2 weeks, had a horrible stretch this year.

 

You listed a lot of things as just unfortunate timing for the Sox right now. I wasn't trying to say the Sox suck and deserve to be 0-162. Yes, the Indians had a bad stretch, but they're now on fire. On the other hand, the Sox had been on fire nearly all year, and then hit a terrible stretch in the last 50 days or so. Isn't it called a collapse when you struggle at the end of the season? No teams collapses to start the season. I just don't see any composure or focus by the overall organization, and mainly the players and manager. I hope Ozzie had a good time in Miami yesterday trying to forget about how bad things have been lately.

Edited September 13, 2005 by fathom

[Dick Allen]

Kudos to Al Lopez' ghost who did break this story correctly after Sunday's game. No media outlet reported Marte had been thrown off the team, not even Bruce Levine.

[The Beast]

All things being equal [no attitude problems, injuries etc] Vizcaino is about the only guy Marte could replace. I'd rather see BMac being the 11th pitcher on the playoff roster than Marte. Esp. seeing how both he and Jenks have much better splits vs LH hitters than RH hitters.

 

Add in the fact that Marte may have burned some bridges, "losing" him isn't that big a deal. In fact, it may bring the team closer if Marte is a bit of a head case.

 

Vizcaino has gotten better. I mean in his outing's he's cut down the amount of earned runs that bothered me early on in the year. Even in the games where they were up by 5 or so.

[jackie hayes]

Deja Vu of what?

You're right, this situation hasn't exactly happened before. But it's hard to find any article that mentions Ozzie w/o some quote about, 'I make the decisions,' 'If you don't like how I do things in my house, etc.' Everytime there's a question about starting BMac, whatever -- 'I make the decisions'. I don't know Ozzie, and I don't know the situation. But looking at it, I know Marte was late, and suddenly he's done with the Sox. I don't know that lateness was what did it, but I don't find it so hard to imagine. Some people here thought the Sox should ditch Marte to 'send a message' -- why should I be so sure Ozzie 'Master of Every f***ing Domain' Guillen doesn't see it the same way? (The "F-Bomb" not to be aggressive, but just cuz we ARE talking about Ozzie.)

[Flash Tizzle]

You wonder how Gardenhire can (publically) resolve issues with Lohse--even after his door was polverized with a baseball bat, yet problems with Marte have continued to its current state. Similarily, between the two players, resentment likely existed beyond Marte blowing off Schneider and Lohse venting frustration with Gardenhire's managerial decisions. It's just odd to me how the two are completely opposite scenarios with two completely different results.

 

IMO, this is poor judgement on managements part. Was it necessary for Guillen to publically announce Marte's problems? It's a needless distraction for a team holding onto a division lead.

 

We couldn't just sweep this under the rug and place him on the DL to void this discussion?

 

Until more light is shed on this issue--which I hope does occur, I'll continue to hold my position this was a mistake. Now, on the issue of his importance to this pitching staff, it's certaintly possible to overcome his removal. He's shown himself to be a liability in pressure situations. Only two baseball players he's confident pitching against is Corie Koskie and Justin Morneau.

Edited September 14, 2005 by Flash Tizzle

[beck72]

Vizcaino has gotten better. I mean in his outing's he's cut down the amount of earned runs that bothered me early on in the year. Even in the games where they were up by 5 or so.

I agree. Viz has thrown a lot better. I was just saying that I'd rather have BMac on the roster. That Viz would also be on if Marte stays gone would be fine with me

[southsider2k5]

Kudos to Al Lopez' ghost who did break this story correctly after Sunday's game. No media outlet reported Marte had been thrown off the team, not even Bruce Levine.

 

Definately. Thank for the info

[Guest JimH]

You wonder how Gardenhire can (publically) resolve issues with Lohse--even after his door was polverized with a baseball bat, yet problems with Marte have continued to its current state. Similarily, between the two players, resentment likely existed beyond Marte blowing off Schneider and Lohse venting frustration with Gardenhire's managerial decisions. It's just odd to me how the two are completely opposite scenarios with two completely different results.

 

IMO, this is poor judgement on managements part. Was it necessary for Guillen to publically announce Marte's problems? It's a needless distraction for a team holding onto a division lead.

 

We couldn't just sweep this under the rug and place him on the DL to void this discussion?

 

Until more light is shed on this issue--which I hope does occur, I'll continue to hold my position this was a mistake. Now, on the issue of his importance to this pitching staff, it's certaintly possible to overcome his removal. He's shown himself to be a liability in pressure situations. Only two baseball players he's confident pitching against is Corie Koskie and Justin Morneau.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Do you not think the beat writers wouldn't have known if Marte came in late?

 

Let me say this ... Marte has had health issues since Tucson. His upper shoulder has been bothering him, specifically the trapezius. My guess, and it's just a guess, is he has been pushed by Sox coaches and mgmt. to pitch through some discomfort. Marte is a very sensitive sort. His soreness became worse at midseason and who knows what it is now.

 

Personally I believe it's an injury problem compounded by a personal problem of some sort.

 

I also believe the Sox got sick of trying to nurse him through the soreness, and whatever the personal problem is, they felt it's a distraction. And as such, he is not with the team.

 

This runs a lot deeper than a guy getting to the ballpark late for a game.

[Guest JimH]

You listed a lot of things as just unfortunate timing for the Sox right now.  I wasn't trying to say the Sox suck and deserve to be 0-162.  Yes, the Indians had a bad stretch, but they're now on fire.  On the other hand, the Sox had been on fire nearly all year, and then hit a terrible stretch in the last 50 days or so.  Isn't it called a collapse when you struggle at the end of the season?  No teams collapses to start the season.  I just don't see any composure or focus by the overall organization, and mainly the players and manager.  I hope Ozzie had a good time in Miami yesterday trying to forget about how bad things have been lately.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No, you misread it.

 

I did not say the Sox were a victim of unfortunate timing, I said they were the victim of the same things that happen to almost every other team in baseball.

 

You're attaching imflammatory adjectives to what should simply be categorized as playing bad for a stretch. It's 162 games. Cleveland had a horrible stretch to start the season, and they would LOVE to have that 4 game series after the All Star break back.

 

Compusure and focus has a lot to do with how a team performs when the season is on the line. Just because you panic doesn't mean the White Sox are. People take a mental health break from their jobs all the time, Guillen shouldn't? The players shouldn't? They shouldn't spend time with their families and relax?

 

I realize you would've preferred he sit in his office and angst and panic, but again, maybe he's been in baseball for 20+ years because he has a fairly good idea of how to deal with the pressure of pro sports? You're imposing your value system on him ... totally unfair. When you struggle in your job and you want to take a vacation day, do you have the peanut gallery chiming in that you should sit at your desk or whatever and go over reports instead?

 

You have your opinion on this situation, my opinion is you've gone overboard once again.

[fathom]

You have your opinion on this situation, my opinion is you've gone overboard once again.

 

Considering there were quite a few people on here who were upset with the way Guillen reacted towards leaving Chicago yesterday. We're obviously not even close to being on the same page, so the only thing I can say is that we have one thing in common...we both want the Sox to win!

[SnB]

Considering there were quite a few people on here who were upset with the way Guillen reacted towards leaving Chicago yesterday.  We're obviously not even close to being on the same page, so the only thing I can say is that we have one thing in common...we both want the Sox to win!

truth is, no one really knows the full story so all of this isn't going to solve anything.

 

this is the life of a fan.

[YASNY]

truth is, no one really knows the full story so all of this isn't going to solve anything.

 

this is the life of a fan.

 

Fortunately, no one around here would jump to conclusions like they know exactly what is going on and exactly what should have and shouldn't have been done.

[YASNY]

Some more input on the Marte thing from Barry Rozner:

 

Chemistry is a word often misused and nearly always misunderstood by those who don’t know what it means to be a part of a team.

 

That being said, Tuesday might be a day for the White Sox to remember as they have told Damaso Marte to stay home and rest his ailing neck.

 

Translated: While the rest of us are working hard and trying to win something, take your selfish behavior and errant ways and stick ’em. You’re either with us, or you’re against us.

 

Marte has butted heads with manager Ozzie Guillen all season. He showed up late for Sunday’s game and was sent home, and he didn’t take the team flight to Kansas City.

 

In the meantime, Neal Cotts can get it done, Bobby Jenks looks unhittable and Mark Buehrle can help on his off-days during the playoffs.

 

Marte is a valuable commodity and will be traded in the off-season. In the meantime, management has let the players know that they are together in this and only those who care enough to be there and want to win will enjoy the ride.

 

When players know poor behavior is permitted while they’re working hard, it makes for bad feelings and lousy chemistry.

 

Maybe this will be the spark that ignites a new Sox fire.

Edited September 14, 2005 by YASNY

[Guest JimH]

More on the story from the Southtown:

 

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/ds.../pro/141sd1.htm

 

1. Neck and trapezius injury, which he's been struggling with all year

 

2. Injury forces a change in mechanics and confidence issues

 

3. Mental frustration leads to more ineffective pitching and not getting to the

ballpark on time makes things worse

[Kristy]

From the "No s***" Department:

 

Damaso Marte will never pitch for the White Sox again.

 

JMO

 

 

Good!!!!! He's a waste of space.

[DBAHO]

Good!!!!! He's a waste of space.

Welcome aboard to Soxtalk.

 

Let's just hope this doesn't affect Marte's trade value significantly. He could be a good pawn to use in a Rowand + Marte for Juan Pierre, or Marte + El Duque + prospect for Chad Tracy.

 

And in the off-season, expect the Sox to go after another lefty for the pen. Candidates include Scott Eyre, Scott Sauerbeck, Ricardo Rincon, Chris Hammond and Valerio De Los Santos.

[southsider2k5]

Good!!!!! He's a waste of space.

 

Welcome to Soxtalk

[Heads22]

Welcome aboard.

[mreye]

More on the story from the Southtown:

 

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/ds.../pro/141sd1.htm

 

1.  Neck and trapezius injury, which he's been struggling with all year

 

2.  Injury forces a change in mechanics and confidence issues

 

3.  Mental frustration leads to more ineffective pitching and not getting to the

  ballpark on time makes things worse

 

Wow!

 

Sox bullpen coach Art Kusnyer said. "The bottom line is things have happened before. Nothing major, but if he (Marte) would have just gone home ... he blew it out.

 

"He's always been a very emotional guy, and if you let emotions get in the way and you want to fight the rules, you're going to have to suffer the consequences. That's basically what happened. We can use the guy, but what are you going to do?"

 

Kusnyer stressed he had no ill feelings toward Marte.

 

"I love the kid; we got along great," he said.

 

At the same time, he knows of Marte's deficiencies, too.

 

"It's more a mental thing with him," Kusnyer said. "He would let little things bother him. 'I can't get my slider over.' Before, he would just go right at you, 'Here's my fastball, here's my breaking ball.' All of a sudden, he wants to change things. I told him in the bullpen, 'You don't have to change anything.' He couldn't get over the mental part of it.

 

"There was a lot of frustration, there was the (neck) injury because he was changing his delivery. He wasn't mentally tough enough to go back to the basics because of his frustration. He comes in and attacks the manager, tells him that no one likes him and that type of thing. Where does that come from? That's like talk from a 7-year-old kid.

 

"It's like he ran out of ammunition and was backed into a corner, so he attacked Ozzie in a childish way," Kusnyer said. "Do you want a pitcher who doesn't believe in himself?"

[RockRaines]

Viz, Marte, and Tracey to Milwaukee for Overbay...?

you think they want their player back?

[RockRaines]

Welcome aboard to Soxtalk. 

 

Let's just hope this doesn't affect Marte's trade value significantly. He could be a good pawn to use in a Rowand + Marte for Juan Pierre, or Marte + El Duque + prospect for Chad Tracy.

 

And in the off-season, expect the Sox to go after another lefty for the pen. Candidates include Scott Eyre, Scott Sauerbeck, Ricardo Rincon, Chris Hammond and Valerio De Los Santos.

Juan Pierre? I hope that was just you throwing a name out. Im not sure we need Scott Pods 2 on this team as much as we need a power hitting DH or 1B or 3B.

[YASNY]

Wow! 

 

Sounds like Marte needed his mommy.