southsideirish71 Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 (edited) Duque to get 1 more shot vs. Twins ''[Hernandez] has brought me all the way to here to this point,'' Guillen said. ''I have a lot of confidence in El Duque. He had one bad outing. We're going to stay the same way, but in the next couple of days, we could change our mind when we see how El Duque feels.'' 'Right now El Duque should be the man because I feel that I let that man down when I took him out,'' Guillen said. ''I feel like people think that I just took him out because everybody wants McCarthy pitching. Well, I do, too. Everybody wants this kid to pitch. But when a guy has pitched for you all year long, I don't think it's fair for him to be treated like this. Edited September 14, 2005 by southsideirish71 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 "One bad outing"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 I guarantee this is due to the innings pitched incentive in his contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downstairs Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 Come on, Ozzie... stop with the Dusty Baker impressions. Sports is not about respect, letting a man down, and all that crap. Its about winning and nothing else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 QUOTE(downstairs @ Sep 14, 2005 -> 09:59 AM) Come on, Ozzie... stop with the Dusty Baker impressions. Sports is not about respect, letting a man down, and all that crap. Its about winning and nothing else. Do you work as hard for a guy you don't respect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 I'll all but guarantee there's not a single Sox player in that dugout who feels that Duque gives them a better chance of winning than McCarthy does. Yes, you'll play harder for someone you respect. However, you're also likely to play harder for someone who you feel is not afraid to stick his neck out and make a chance in order to try and help the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Sep 14, 2005 -> 09:49 AM) Duque to get 1 more shot vs. Twins ''[Hernandez] has brought me all the way to here to this point,'' Guillen said. ''I have a lot of confidence in El Duque. He had one bad outing. We're going to stay the same way, but in the next couple of days, we could change our mind when we see how El Duque feels.'' 'Right now El Duque should be the man because I feel that I let that man down when I took him out,'' Guillen said. ''I feel like people think that I just took him out because everybody wants McCarthy pitching. Well, I do, too. Everybody wants this kid to pitch. But when a guy has pitched for you all year long, I don't think it's fair for him to be treated like this. Wow Ozzie, there is no defending you on this one. One bad outing is really stretching it. And he hasnt pitched all year long, the guy had two spells on the disabled list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyho7476 Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Sep 14, 2005 -> 10:08 AM) Wow Ozzie, there is no defending you on this one. One bad outing is really stretching it. And he hasnt pitched all year long, the guy had two spells on the disabled list. Yeah, I couldn't believe he said 1 bad outing...the guy has an ERA over 5...that equals plenty of bad outings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuiceCruz16 Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 QUOTE(tonyho7476 @ Sep 14, 2005 -> 09:12 AM) Yeah, I couldn't believe he said 1 bad outing...the guy has an ERA over 5...that equals plenty of bad outings. There is plenty to be said with getting the most out of your players. Throwing the guys that have batttled all season to get you to this point out like the trash can have very negative effects, both now and in the future for Ozzie. I have no problem with El Duque going out next start. The intangables of coaching can have a big effect on a teams preformance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyho7476 Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 QUOTE(JuiceCruz16 @ Sep 14, 2005 -> 10:21 AM) There is plenty to be said with getting the most out of your players. Throwing the guys that have batttled all season to get you to this point out like the trash can have very negative effects, both now and in the future for Ozzie. I have no problem with El Duque going out next start. The intangables of coaching can have a big effect on a teams preformance. Sure, but if he stinks it up again saturday, he needs to hit the pen. We need to win to get this thing...Cleveland just won't die.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted September 14, 2005 Author Share Posted September 14, 2005 This is the part of the quote that bothers me. "Right now El Duque should be the man because I feel that I let that man down when I took him out,'' Guillen said." He gave up 3 homers and almost a 4th if it were not for Arow taking one away in the first inning. If you see any pitcher getting shelled like this you get the bullpen up and if he continues to get hit and give up runs you get him out of there. Its hard for me to understand why you let El Duque get shelled and then say after you took him out, well I let him down. Come one now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuiceCruz16 Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 QUOTE(tonyho7476 @ Sep 14, 2005 -> 09:22 AM) Sure, but if he stinks it up again saturday, he needs to hit the pen. We need to win to get this thing...Cleveland just won't die.... I agree, and Ozzie seems to be one that won't let this go to far , if he continues to struggle. El Duque is headed for the pen in the playoffs anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sin city sox fan Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 I think part of this decision is based upon the desire to get B-Mac some work out of the bullpen. Since this will likely be his use in the playoffs, they want him to become comfortable with being able to warm up and come in mid-game. Although he did a great job of this over the weekend, a couple more stints out of the bullpen would be ideal before the postseason begins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyho7476 Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 QUOTE(sin city sox fan @ Sep 14, 2005 -> 10:33 AM) I think part of this decision is based upon the desire to get B-Mac some work out of the bullpen. Since this will likely be his use in the playoffs, they want him to become comfortable with being able to warm up and come in mid-game. Although he did a great job of this over the weekend, a couple more stints out of the bullpen would be ideal before the postseason begins. I can see that and agree with that, but we also need to win now, for 2 reasons: to clinch the division, and also try and get homefield throughout the playoffs... Then, in the playoffs, he can be a reliever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 The love for Brandon McCarthy has been a rollercoaster ride. The "5 homers at the Cell" post still sticks in my mind to this very day. Look El Duque probably doesn't deserve another oppurtunity. But if he comes good, and can be used in the playoff, that's a big payoff. And B-Mac ain't gonna complain about his role anyway, which shows the type of person he is. You just hope this doesn't affect the Sox making October. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Sep 14, 2005 -> 10:52 AM) The love for Brandon McCarthy has been a rollercoaster ride. The "5 homers at the Cell" post still sticks in my mind to this very day. Look El Duque probably doesn't deserve another oppurtunity. But if he comes good, and can be used in the playoff, that's a big payoff. And B-Mac ain't gonna complain about his role anyway, which shows the type of person he is. You just hope this doesn't affect the Sox making October. Actually, there was an article about how BMAC is a big time complainer. I believe it was in the trib Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFanForever Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Sep 14, 2005 -> 02:49 PM) Duque to get 1 more shot vs. Twins ''[Hernandez] has brought me all the way to here to this point,'' Guillen said. ''I have a lot of confidence in El Duque. He had one bad outing. We're going to stay the same way, but in the next couple of days, we could change our mind when we see how El Duque feels.'' 'Right now El Duque should be the man because I feel that I let that man down when I took him out,'' Guillen said. ''I feel like people think that I just took him out because everybody wants McCarthy pitching. Well, I do, too. Everybody wants this kid to pitch. But when a guy has pitched for you all year long, I don't think it's fair for him to be treated like this. Brought you all the way where? To the brink of insanity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSoxMatt Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 Maybe Ozzie is setting him up to fail, Johan Santana is pitching Saturday and you know hew well we hit him!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 QUOTE(WSoxMatt @ Sep 14, 2005 -> 09:23 AM) Maybe Ozzie is setting him up to fail, Johan Santana is pitching Saturday and you know hew well we hit him!!! Responding to the sarcasm with seriousness...this could be a real way of testing El Duque too...we've all been told, and I've repeated, that El Duque is a big-game pitcher. We've seen it a couple times this year where he stepped up and stopped losing skids. He's supposed to do well with the pressure on. Well Duque...the pressure is on. You need to perform well this start to keep a starting job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 These stats point to the obvious conclusion that it is El Duque who should be relegated to the bullpen for relief, not McCarthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Sep 14, 2005 -> 11:13 AM) Actually, there was an article about how BMAC is a big time complainer. I believe it was in the trib Man, I've got to see a link before I believe that. I have read nothing of the kind about BMac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFanForever Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 QUOTE(YASNY @ Sep 14, 2005 -> 04:47 PM) Man, I've got to see a link before I believe that. I have read nothing of the kind about BMac. Same here. Also, I would take whatever the Trib says about the Sox with a grain of salt. They like to print a lot of bulls***. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Sep 14, 2005 -> 11:13 AM) Actually, there was an article about how BMAC is a big time complainer. I believe it was in the trib Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 QUOTE(YASNY @ Sep 14, 2005 -> 04:47 PM) Man, I've got to see a link before I believe that. I have read nothing of the kind about BMac. The article was more about his personal life, not really about how he is on the field. I recall it saying something about how he harps about things [kind of outspoken once people get to know him]. But he was different on the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 I think Ozzie trying to get El Duque on track is a good thing. No doubt he's scuffling. But this late in the yr, with the postseason right around the corner, why start a big uproar sticking El Duque in the pen behind a rookie. Everyone knows Orlando will be in the pen come the playoffs. As long as he can keep the sox in some games, and not get lit up each time out, throwing him out there isn't the worst thing in the world. [the flip side--the sox put bmac out there, he gets lit up and the pen gets used up] Ozzie has stuck with the veteran hitters during slumps. Sometimes veteran pitchers should be given some leeway as well. IMO, this is one of those times. Now, if the sox had a 2 game lead....that's different. Put the best guy out there regardless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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