El Duque to start on Saturday

[Balta1701]

I think Ozzie trying to get El Duque on track is a good thing. No doubt he's scuffling. But this late in the yr, with the postseason right around the corner, why start a big uproar sticking El Duque in the pen behind a rookie. Everyone knows Orlando will be in the pen come the playoffs. As long as he can keep the sox in some games, and not get lit up each time out, throwing him out there isn't the worst thing in the world. [the flip side--the sox put bmac out there, he gets lit up and the pen gets used up]

 

Ozzie has stuck with the veteran hitters during slumps. Sometimes veteran pitchers should be given some leeway as well. IMO, this is one of those times. Now, if the sox had a 2 game lead....that's different. Put the best guy out there regardless

Personally, I think I still like the idea of a 6 man rotation right now...actively force the other starters to get some extra rest, especially since we just used up our last off day before the end of the season.

[fathom]

All it takes is one good start the rest of the way by Duque, and I guarantee you'll see quotes in the paper by Ozzie saying that he's going to start a playoff game.

[beck72]

Personally, I think I still like the idea of a 6 man rotation right now...actively force the other starters to get some extra rest, especially since we just used up our last off day before the end of the season.

 

Except that one bad outing from any of the six guys and the pen is used up. IMO, keeping it a 5 man rotation, but limiting the SP's to under 100 pitches [like the sox have been doing] could help give them that rest.

[qwerty]

The love for Brandon McCarthy has been a rollercoaster ride. The "5 homers at the Cell" post still sticks in my mind to this very day.

 

Look El Duque probably doesn't deserve another oppurtunity. But if he comes good, and can be used in the playoff, that's a big payoff. And B-Mac ain't gonna complain about his role anyway, which shows the type of person he is. You just hope this doesn't affect the Sox making October.

 

I really hate flip floppers. In spring training mccarthy was a god and should have made the 25 man roster. Then when we put the pansy on the dl and mccarthy did just decent against the cubs he was suppose to take over hernandez's spot in the rotation. He gets smoked in three of his next four starts and he is the anti-christ and was an overated prospect. Two fantastic starts and another good outing in his ''relief'' role against the angels and he is god again.

 

:headshake

[southsideirish71]

I think Ozzie trying to get El Duque on track is a good thing. No doubt he's scuffling. But this late in the yr, with the postseason right around the corner, why start a big uproar sticking El Duque in the pen behind a rookie. Everyone knows Orlando will be in the pen come the playoffs. As long as he can keep the sox in some games, and not get lit up each time out, throwing him out there isn't the worst thing in the world. [the flip side--the sox put bmac out there, he gets lit up and the pen gets used up]

 

Ozzie has stuck with the veteran hitters during slumps. Sometimes veteran pitchers should be given some leeway as well. IMO, this is one of those times. Now, if the sox had a 2 game lead....that's different. Put the best guy out there regardless

 

Lets look over what he has done since the Allstar break.

 

El Duque is 2-6 with a 5.34 ERA post allstar break. Is this a slump, or is this a body of work over a period of time.

 

in the month of september he has a 1-1 record with a 7.56ERA. The trend is getting worse not better.

 

Back on track is one thing. These are Jason Grilli/Felix Diaz/Danny Wright numbers we are talking about though. The 5th starter black hole last year remember. We have a 6 game lead, not a 15 game lead. We havent won a thing yet. You put your horses out to win the division first then you worry about peoples feelings later. If we were so worried about feelings, Shingo would be still closing and Billy Koch would of never been traded. We are talking about an old pitcher who has a history of arm problems. In all those years he did well in the playoffs he didnt limp into them. You sit El Duque and you go with the hot hand.

[beck72]

Lets look over what he has done since the Allstar break. 

 

El Duque is 2-6 with a 5.34 ERA post allstar break.  Is this a slump, or is this a body of work over a period of time.

 

in the month of september he has a 1-1 record with a 7.56ERA.  The trend is getting worse not better.

 

Back on track is one thing.  These are Jason Grilli/Felix Diaz/Danny Wright numbers we are talking about though. The 5th starter black hole last year remember.  We have a 6 game lead, not a 15 game lead.  We havent won a thing yet.  You put your horses out to win the division first then you worry about peoples feelings later.  If we were so worried about feelings, Shingo would be still closing and Billy Koch would of never been traded.  We are talking about an old pitcher who has a history of arm problems.  In all those years he did well in the playoffs he didnt limp into them.    You sit El Duque and you go with the hot hand.

 

A six game lead is a lot different than a 2 or 3 game lead in mid Sept. Hernandez is different than Grilli/ diaz/ Wright. He's a proven big game winner. He should be afforded some leeway. [Not a lot as he's struggled big time for a while now]. But some leeway. Like Ozzie has done. Put him on notice, but give him support as well.

 

If the sox were to blow their lead [which correct me if I'm wrong, you have been seriously worried about], El Duque wouldn't be the sole or the biggest reason.

[fathom]

A six game lead is a lot different than a 2 or 3 game lead in mid Sept. Hernandez is different than Grilli/ diaz/ Wright. He's a proven big game winner. He should be afforded some leeway. [Not a lot as he's struggled big time for a while now]. But some leeway. Like Ozzie has done. Put him on notice, but give him support as well.

 

 

He was a big game winner a few years ago when he had a lot better stuff and was healthier. That's like saying that Frank Thomas is one of the best hitters in baseball (to use Jason's argument). Yes, a choke job wouldn't be solely based on Duque, but he would have played a huge role in the poor 2nd half.

[Guest JimH]

A six game lead is a lot different than a 2 or 3 game lead in mid Sept. Hernandez is different than Grilli/ diaz/ Wright. He's a proven big game winner. He should be afforded some leeway. [Not a lot as he's struggled big time for a while now]. But some leeway. Like Ozzie has done. Put him on notice, but give him support as well.

 

If the sox were to blow their lead [which correct me if I'm wrong, you have been seriously worried about], El Duque wouldn't be the sole or the biggest reason.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree and here might be the other reason why:

 

If the race is still tight 5 days after this Sat. 9/17 and Hernandez doesn't pitch up to snuff vs. the Twins on Sat., the 5th starters turn comes up on 9/22 against guess who, the Twins. McCarthy would be a new look for the Twins hitters, they haven't seen him yet.

 

Doing it the way Guillen is setting it up does two things:

 

- He challenges El Duque to bring his A game this Sat. and doesn't bounce him

for a rookie in the process

 

- Allows McCarthy to stay on a normal schedule in case he's needed for long

relief as El Duque's backup again, ala last Sun. vs. LAA. Remember he threw

almost 6 innings Sunday and I don't think they want to mess with his arm too

much.

[beck72]

He was a big game winner a few years ago when he had a lot better stuff and was healthier.  That's like saying that Frank Thomas is one of the best hitters in baseball (to use Jason's argument).  Yes, a choke job wouldn't be solely based on Duque, but he would have played a huge role in the poor 2nd half.

 

IMO, you still let the veteran pitcher try and work out the kinks. S olong as he's healthy, chances are he'll correct himself. The postseason is the key. The sox still have to get there. But success in the playoffs is what the sox are looking for. Having a big game pitcher, who has thrived under those extreme pressure situations, and throwing him under the bus, without giving him every chance to succeed [though I think the sox are getting close to exhausting their patience w/ him] isn't wise.

 

The sox don't have a roster loaded w/ players with such important playoff experience where they can toss aside a guy like El Duque. I love Bmac. But seriously, will he do better playing in front of a packed house on the road? It's hard to see. el duque will be needed by the sox

[Flash Tizzle]

A six game lead is a lot different than a 2 or 3 game lead in mid Sept. Hernandez is different than Grilli/ diaz/ Wright. He's a proven big game winner. He should be afforded some leeway. [Not a lot as he's struggled big time for a while now]. But some leeway. Like Ozzie has done. Put him on notice, but give him support as well.

 

If the sox were to blow their lead [which correct me if I'm wrong, you have been seriously worried about], El Duque wouldn't be the sole or the biggest reason.

 

Yes, a six game lead is different from a 2/3 game lead. Just not as different as the 15 game lead held a month ago.

 

Saturday's start should remain El-Duque's determing factor in whether or not he continues starting down the stretch and into the playoffs. He loses against Minnesota, I don't want to hear excuses. He's out. You have to make it this simple in deciding his fate. If not, we'll be debating his pitching line and insisting "giving up 4 ER in 7 IP isn't bad..." or "it's not his fault the offense failed to show up against Santana. Garcia had similiar misfortunes..." Sounds unfair, but baseball exists to win games--not cator to the needs of someones feelings.

 

My concern with El-Duque is Guillen is desperately searching for any glimmer of success to justify leaving him in the starting rotation. I don't necessarily believe it's a question of giving his team the best opportunity to win, but rather maintaing stability in our favorite intangible: "chemistry." I doubt the veteran pitcher would appreciate being replaced with a rookie.

 

If he pitches a quality outting--regardless of the final outcome--would this convince any of you he belongs in the rotation? Minnesota doesn't exactly have a great offense. Depending on our position in the standings, and whether or not it drastically changes between now and Saturday, it should be Duque's to lose. If the lead in the division falls below 6 games, EVEN IF Duque wins Saturday against Minnesota, do you continue to start him? I don't. Above 6, and a Duque win, it's entirely different. Every game matters from this position on.

[RockRaines]

IMO, you still let the veteran pitcher try and work out the kinks. S olong as he's healthy, chances are he'll correct himself. The postseason is the key. The sox still have to get there. But success in the playoffs is what the sox are looking for. Having a big game pitcher, who has thrived under those extreme pressure situations, and throwing him under the bus, without giving him every chance to succeed [though I think the sox are getting close to exhausting their patience w/ him] isn't wise.

 

The sox don't have a roster loaded w/ players with such important playoff experience where they can toss aside a guy like El Duque. I love Bmac. But seriously, will he do better playing in front of a packed house on the road? It's hard to see. el duque will be needed by the sox

El Duque has been horrid in the playoffs since 2000. I have no confidence in him in that situation. HE WAS a big game pitcher.

[Heads22]

Of course, BMac then said....

 

"Then they'll realize I'm doing it for laughs and that I'm just being a smart-ass.'"

http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-mac11.html

 

The article is more people poking fun at him and him poking fun at himself.

[CWSGuy406]

I really hate flip floppers. In spring training mccarthy was a god and should have made the 25 man roster. Then when we put the pansy on the dl and mccarthy did just decent against the cubs he was suppose to take over hernandez's spot in the rotation. He gets smoked in three of his next four starts and he is the anti-christ and was an overated prospect. Two fantastic starts and another good outing in his ''relief'' role against the angels and he is god again.

 

:headshake

 

Funny how all those people talking about how overrated McCarthy was are pretty much the same ones now calling for McCarthy to start over El Duque.

 

Of course, I agree that McCarthy should start, but I thought this was a good post (qwerty's).

[Hermanson32]

This is where I question Ozzie's managing skills

[southsideirish71]

IMO, you still let the veteran pitcher try and work out the kinks. S olong as he's healthy, chances are he'll correct himself. The postseason is the key. The sox still have to get there. But success in the playoffs is what the sox are looking for. Having a big game pitcher, who has thrived under those extreme pressure situations, and throwing him under the bus, without giving him every chance to succeed [though I think the sox are getting close to exhausting their patience w/ him] isn't wise.

 

The sox don't have a roster loaded w/ players with such important playoff experience where they can toss aside a guy like El Duque. I love Bmac. But seriously, will he do better playing in front of a packed house on the road? It's hard to see. el duque will be needed by the sox

 

 

Here is the real question. If Saturday we were playing the Indians instead of weak hitting Minny, would you go to battle with El Duque or Bmac. Whom do you have confidence in to give you an opp to compete.

[Guest JimH]

Who knows, the plan might be to have Hernandez throw 4 innings or 5 at the most no matter what, and then have McCarthy throw the last 4-5 to keep them both on schedule. McCarthy will be ready to pitch on Sat. no matter what.

[SHAFTR]

Funny how all those people talking about how overrated McCarthy was are pretty much the same ones now calling for McCarthy to start over El Duque.

 

Of course, I agree that McCarthy should start, but I thought this was a good post (qwerty's).

 

I'm guilty. I was really excited about him during Spring Training and then I wasn't impressed with him during his first call up. Now, I'm extremely impressed. I was clearly wrong. Although to be fair, he didn't show much in the first half of the year for me to remain excited and prospects can go bad very quickly.

 

I kind of hope El Duque gets lit up on Saturday, so we don't have to see him starting in the playoffs.

[fathom]

I kind of hope El Duque gets lit up on Saturday, so we don't have to see him starting in the playoffs.

 

That's the big issue right now. Too many games of our starter getting "lit up", and we won't have anyone starting in the playoffs.