If we somehow miss the postseason

[Mercy!]

Maybe Brooks can jump on the bandwagon of sox fans if they blow this.  Here is the new official hat for this years whitesox if they give this up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm afraid you're too late

 

[NorthSideSox72]

The shortness of memory on this thread is staggering to me.

 

In case we have forgotten, this manager has coached a team that most people picked for 3rd of 4th in the ALC to first place, and most likely, the playoffs. Also, this GM managed to put together a squad of people who, on a per dollar basis, have outperformed most or all of baseball.

 

For those who wanted a big bat so desperately, let's remember that 1. there weren't many available, and 2. we cannot sell the farm for one OK hitter (which was all there was out there for the taking). KW picked up Blum to spell the infield here and there, not to start. He's just find in that role.

 

Ozzie has some issues with figuring out pitchers, and he often abrasive. But he set the tone for a great season in that clubhouse. They are obviously not happy right now, but let's see how that finishes up. Either way, he got them in the position to even HAVE this discussion.

 

Fire them? Not in a million years.

 

KW deserves GM of the year, period.

 

Oz deserves manager of the year IF we win the division. He at least deserves some kudos for his (and the team's) vast improvement over last year if not.

 

Now get off it, and let's start being real Sox fans!

Edited September 16, 2005 by NorthSideSox72

[DBAHO]

Knee Jerk Reactions. Don't forget pre - season all of the experts were predicting 3rd and 4th place finishes at best for the Sox. So KW and Ozzie are going no-where.

[Dick Allen]

The shortness of memory on this thread is staggering to me.

 

In case we have forgotten, this manager has coached a team that most people picked for 3rd of 4th in the ALC to first place, and most likely, the playoffs.  Also, this GM managed to put together a squad of people who, on a per dollar basis, have outperformed most or all of baseball.

 

For those who wanted a big bat so desperately, let's remember that 1. there weren't many available, and 2. we cannot sell the farm for one OK hitter (which was all there was out there for the taking).  KW picked up Blum to spell the infield here and there, not to start.  He's just find in that role.

 

Ozzie has some issues with figuring out pitchers, and he often abrasive.  But he set the tone for a great season in that clubhouse.  They are obviously not happy right now, but let's see how that finishes up.  Either way, he got them in the position to even HAVE this discussion.

 

Fire them?  Not in a million years

 

KW deserves GM of the year, period.

 

Oz deserves manager of the year IF we win the division.  He at least deserves some kudos for his (and the team's) vast improvement over last year if not.

 

Now get off it, and let's start being real Sox fans!

 

Considering Cleveland has a $41 million payroll and the Sox is $75 million, shouldn't Eric Wedge be the favorite for Manager of the Year anyway. And if Cleveland does pass the Sox, how could KW be the executive of the year?

[infohawk]

Guys, guys, guys, what's wrong with this team right now is the starting pitching. But for Contreras, they all seem fatigued. I will concede the possibility that they are fatigued because Ozzie overused them, but I don't know that for sure. We probably wouldn't even notice any of these other "problems" if the starters were still throwing quality starts. Let's just hope they can turn it around over the final two weeks of the season.

 

There is no reason to fire Ozzie or KW. Ozzie's not giving up runs by the bundle to bad teams. In retrospect, KW had the presense of mind to pursue Jason Schmidt and A.J. Burnett when it seemed like we needed hitting more than anything. I couldn't understand at the time why he was fixated on another pitcher. Maybe he knew best after all. He would have had to give up the farm for Burnett. I'm glad we didn't get Griffey because he injured himself again.

 

KW did a great job of reconstructing this team. This is the best White Sox team since our last playoff appearance. The most wins we have had since then was 86 in 2003. We have 88 wins right now with two weeks to play. We have a 4.5 game lead in the division and a slightly larger lead in the wild card race should it come to that. No doubt our momentum is going the wrong way, but that can change if the starting pitchers step up and carry us to the finish line. Let's hope they do. Our season depends on how they pitch from here on out. It's that simple.

 

With all due respect to my fellow Sox fans, all of this talk about firing people is crazy.

Edited September 16, 2005 by infohawk

[Texsox]

Terry Bevington is still available.  He handles pitching staffs equally well.

 

I see Bevington a couple times a year. He's managing in the Central League. Nice guy.

 

Let's fire the GM and Manager for having

 

The best record in the AL on September 16th

Rookie of the Year candidate

90+ wins

 

Even if the team fails to make the playoffs, they will have a top 4 or 5 record in the league. If instead, the team was 20 games out and had a great September, would you be chanting keep him?

 

This is a great season by any standard. I hate to say it, but I wish we had a little more Cub fan in all of us. The kind that is willing to see positive through the fog.

[3E8]

Knee Jerk Reactions. Don't forget pre - season all of the experts were predicting 3rd and 4th place finishes at best for the Sox. So KW and Ozzie are going no-where.

This is irrelevant. Most of those experts are anything but. Ozzie should be evaluated by his in-game and off the field performance. Not by how far Harold Reynolds underestimated our talent. I do realize Oz is going nowhere regardless.

Edited September 16, 2005 by 3E8

[Bias]

What's funny is now that the lead is down to 4.5 all of sudden there is a sense of urgency...but people labeled as dark clouds have felt for a looooooooooooooooong time things weren't right with the Sox. There should've been a sense of urgency when the lead was down to 8 or 9. That put the Indians in striking distance, and now that the wheels have completely fallen off a 4.5 game lead seems like a .5 game lead the way their playing. I hate feeling like it's only a matter of time before the Sox fall out of first place.

 

Hopefully, they'll sack up and take care of business....but does this team have the sack it takes??? I know last year's team didn't, and the year before that and the...well u get the point.

 

Ozzie's got to put the best team on the field everyday and they have to stop playing like bums.

 

[Dick Allen]

When a team has a lead of 15 games in late July, it is not a successful season if they don't make the playoffs, no matter where experts predicted they would finish before the season started. The season, no matter how many wins they wound up with, would have to be considered a failure of epic proportions. The Sox still control their own destiny, but playing like they have been playing will not get it done.

[fathom]

When a team has a lead of 15 games in late July, it is not a successful season if they don't make the playoffs, no matter where experts predicted they would finish before the season started. The season, no matter how many wins they wound up with, would have to be considered a failure of epic proportions. The Sox still control their own destiny, but playing like they have been playing will not get it done.

 

[southsideirish71]

Maybe we can stop Joey from full contracting Wendell Kim disease.

 

Joey Cora's Idol

 

Here is a list of guys that should never be sent from second unless the ball is in the gaps or over the fence.

 

The I have a piano on my back club.

 

AJ

Pauly

Crede

Everett

[Flash Tizzle]

Guys, guys, guys, what's wrong with this team right now is the starting pitching.  But for Contreras, they all seem fatigued.  I will concede the possibility that they are fatigued because Ozzie overused them, but I don't know that for sure.  We probably wouldn't even notice any of these other "problems" if the starters were still throwing quality starts.  Let's just hope they can turn it around over the final two weeks of the season.

 

 

KW did a great job of reconstructing this team.  This is the best White Sox team since our last playoff appearance.  The most wins we have had since then was 86 in 2003.  We have 88 wins right now with two weeks to play.  We have a 4.5 game lead in the division and a slightly larger lead in the wild card race should it come to that.  No doubt our momentum is going the wrong way, but that can change if the starting pitchers step up and carry us to the finish line.  Let's hope they do.  Our season depends on how they pitch from here on out.  It's that simple.

 

With all due respect to my fellow Sox fans, all of this talk about firing people is crazy.

 

 

For the purpose of understanding your position, let's examine the ramifications of a possible collapse.

A team once ahead 15 games in the standings completely embarrasses itself, the city of Chicago, and the organization by blowing away a substantial lead in the division and everyone escapes unharmed? I'm positive everyone on this forum wish they had this sort of job security.

 

Honestly, this team falters down the stretch and misses a playoff birth I don't want to see a similar roster on the field next season. But guess what? Nearly every positional player is signed through 06.' We're stuck with either a group of chokers or a potential playoff contender.

 

Now, look at the upcoming free agent market. Not an appealing alternative for upgrading our club. Williams will be under a tremendous amount of pressure this offseason, in the event of this collapse, not only to move players responsible for the event itself but sign FA's from a relatively weak market. His task will become nearly impossible. If everything follows this course, expect 06' to be his farwell tour.

 

There is no reason to fire Ozzie or KW.  Ozzie's not giving up runs by the bundle to bad teams.  In retrospect, KW had the presense of mind to pursue Jason Schmidt and A.J. Burnett when it seemed like we needed hitting more than anything.  I couldn't understand at the time why he was fixated on another pitcher.  Maybe he knew best after all.  He would have had to give up the farm for Burnett.  I'm glad we didn't get Griffey because he injured himself again.

 

I'll continually have to mention this tidbit because apparently people fail to comprehend the situation. It doesn't matter what the nature of the market was. Have you read a local newspaper recently? Pick up a Sun-Times or browse their website when you have an opportunity. Read Couch's colum. He blames Guillen and Williams for failing to "[open their eyes]--if they had been, it would have produced more than Geoff Blum." Understand this: Williams did nothing and will be burned for it locally, nationally, and by any fan not understanding the staure of July's trading deadline. We're the minority. We understand the demands of organizations seeking the most in return for valuable talent. I'm pulling a fathom here needlessly complimenting myself, but I deserve it. It was so damn predictable what would happen if this team either collapsed or were quickly removed from the playoffs.

 

Whether ridiculously lopsided trade offers were presented to Williams it remains clear he did nothing to upgrade this offense. Nothing. It's that simple. History won't remember the stagnant nature of the trade market. His position in White Sox history lies on the final outcome of 17 games.

Edited September 16, 2005 by Flash Tizzle

[captain54]

The Sox are basically in the predicament they are in because the Indians have played lights out for the last couple of months....and all of the breaks that went their way in the first half are now turning the other way..

 

However, all the Sox needed to do to avoid the possible ultimate disaster of being knocked out of playoff contention was to maintain a .500 record or slightly above, which so far, they have not been done. That was not a lot ot ask. As of right now, they barely have a .500 record since August 1 when they had their 15 game lead...

 

It's true, at the beginning of the season, no one expected the Sox to be in the positon they're in now...However, when you lose close to 15 games in the standings in 8 weeks, there is a breakdown somewhere...

 

What Ozzie and KW have in their favor is that Reinsdorf is notoriously loyal to his people, and releasing any one of them is a reflective on the choices he has made.

 

But if the Sox blow this thing, you have to expect a serious hit in season ticket sales/attendance next year, and Reinsdorf is going to need to address that issue. Justified or not, thousands of Sox fans are going to blame Ozzie, and Reinsdorf has to look at the bottom line and see that means thousands less people at the park...

[LosMediasBlancas]

Considering Cleveland has a $41 million payroll and the Sox is $75 million, shouldn't Eric Wedge be the favorite for Manager of the Year anyway. And if Cleveland does pass the Sox, how could KW be the executive of the year?

 

 

...speaking of K Bubs, when was the last time he made an apprerance or had a quote in the papers? Been kinda quiet lately. Did he pass the wheel and blame over to Ozzie after the trade deadline passed?

[Balta1701]

The Sox are basically in the predicament they are in because the Indians have played lights out for the last couple of months....and all of the breaks that went their way in the first half are now turning the other way..

Welcome to SoxTalk!

[aboz56]

If the team misses the playoffs, here would be my plans after the season and I am not joking. Some might refer to this as the Cleveland model for rebuilding.

 

Trade Jose Contreras and Orlando Hernandez for prospects

 

Let Paul Konerko, Frank Thomas and Carl Everett go via free agency

 

Trade Damaso Marte or release him

 

Resign Jon Garland to a long term deal

 

Resign AJ Pierzynski

 

Trade Jermaine Dye for prospects, put Brian Anderson full-time in RF

 

Find a decent third baseman

[southsideirish71]

If the team misses the playoffs, here would be my plans after the season and I am not joking.  Some might refer to this as the Cleveland model for rebuilding.

 

Trade Jose Contreras and Orlando Hernandez for prospects

 

Let Paul Konerko, Frank Thomas and Carl Everett go via free agency

 

Trade Damaso Marte or release him

 

Resign Jon Garland to a long term deal

 

Resign AJ Pierzynski

 

Trade Jermaine Dye for prospects, put Brian Anderson full-time in RF

 

Find a decent third baseman

 

 

I like it.

 

Play Rogo next year also.

 

 

Next year get a look at Rogo or Owens in LF.

[Balta1701]

If the team misses the playoffs, here would be my plans after the season and I am not joking.  Some might refer to this as the Cleveland model for rebuilding.

 

Trade Jose Contreras and Orlando Hernandez for prospects

 

Let Paul Konerko, Frank Thomas and Carl Everett go via free agency

 

Trade Damaso Marte or release him

 

Resign Jon Garland to a long term deal

 

Resign AJ Pierzynski

 

Trade Jermaine Dye for prospects, put Brian Anderson full-time in RF

 

Find a decent third baseman

You've left us with only 4 starting pitchers. And an even worse offense than we've got this year.

[SoxFanForever]

If the team misses the playoffs, here would be my plans after the season and I am not joking.  Some might refer to this as the Cleveland model for rebuilding.

 

Trade Jose Contreras and Orlando Hernandez for prospects

 

Let Paul Konerko, Frank Thomas and Carl Everett go via free agency

 

Trade Damaso Marte or release him

 

Resign Jon Garland to a long term deal

 

Resign AJ Pierzynski

 

Trade Jermaine Dye for prospects, put Brian Anderson full-time in RF

 

Find a decent third baseman

Can we trade Buehrle too Aboz?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jusssssssssst kidding

[SoxFanForever]

You've left us with only 4 starting pitchers.  And an even worse offense than we've got this year.

He did say it was a rebuilding model. Not a competitive playoff run team for next year.

[nitetrain8601]

If the team misses the playoffs, here would be my plans after the season and I am not joking.  Some might refer to this as the Cleveland model for rebuilding.

 

Trade Jose Contreras and Orlando Hernandez for prospects

 

Let Paul Konerko, Frank Thomas and Carl Everett go via free agency

 

Trade Damaso Marte or release him

 

Resign Jon Garland to a long term deal

 

Resign AJ Pierzynski

 

Trade Jermaine Dye for prospects, put Brian Anderson full-time in RF

 

Find a decent third baseman

 

I wouldn't trade Jose. He's actually turned it on since the AS break with his new armslot.

 

I could deal with that if you somehow have a plan to trade for 3 power hitters because the best power hitter on the market this year is PK.

 

Damaso has lost trade value because of what Ozzie said. Looks like a release for him.

 

I agree on Garland.

 

Trade Jermaine Dye for prospects and trade Brian Anderson as well. I don't think Anderson will turn into anything more than an Aaron Rowand. While Rowand has nice defense, his power numbers have gone really south. Unless we're playing Moneyball, I'd trade Anderson too and get some power in the lineup.

 

It's going to cost you more prospects for a 3B. I mean Mueller is the only option on the market this year IIRC. He doesn't have Crede's glove and Buehrle and Garland won't look as good without his defense. Chavez or bust is what we're looking at there.

[captain54]

Welcome to SoxTalk!

 

Was a member of the White Sox Interactive board since 2000 and was banned for telling the mods that their board wasn't nearly as negative as the Yankee/Met boards...

[southsider2k5]

Was a member of the White Sox Interactive board since 2000 and was banned for telling the mods that their board wasn't nearly as negative as the Yankee/Met boards...

 

Ouch. Well, welcome to Soxtalk anyways

[Yossarian]

PHG is doing his best imitation of Joe Stalin. Too bad, there are lots of great features on that site.

[southsider2k5]

PHG is doing his best imitation of Joe Stalin. Too bad, there are lots of great features on that site.

 

That is true. They have some excellent content, such as pictures and articles. They are just amazing at the rate that they are driving people off at an incredible rate.