Garcia may skip a start...

[bjm676]

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb...t=.jsp&c_id=cws

 

He's slated to go Monday against Cleveland. The last thing we need is another lackadaisacal Garcia getting shelled by the Tribe. But if he's tired, it's best he get's rest.

 

Garcia may be skipped

 

KANSAS CITY -- With Freddy Garcia raising concerns based on his last two starts, White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen is considering the possibility of providing some extra rest for his right-hander.

Guillen said prior to Thursday's game against Kansas City that he may have Garcia skip a start, with Brandon McCarthy taking Garcia's spot through one turn of the rotation. Guillen also said he wouldn't be against using a six-man rotation if that seemed a better alternative. Orlando Hernandez's next performance, Saturday at the Metrodome, would factor into that equation.

 

The White Sox gave Garcia nine runs to work with on Wednesday night, but the Royals rallied for a 10-9 victory.

 

"I talked to [Garcia] about it this morning," Guillen said. "[Pitching coach Don] Cooper is going to talk to him. Is something bothering him? Is he tired? We could move him back or have him skip a start."

 

Guillen said any decision would be based primarily on Garcia's self-assessment of whether arm fatigue might be an issue. Garcia has already thrown 206 2/3 innings this season in 30 starts.

 

"I always trust my players," Guillen said.

[AddisonStSox]

Is there anyway we can have Jose Contreras and Brandon McCarthy pitch all remaining ballgames?

 

Just asking. Fork.

[SoxFan562004]

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb...t=.jsp&c_id=cws

 

He's slated to go Monday against Cleveland.  The last thing we need is another lackadaisacal Garcia getting shelled by the Tribe.  But if he's tired, it's best he get's rest.

OMG this keeps getting worse and worse... these stories are usually the precursors to season ending surgery...

 

f***, Duque is going to get shelled on Saturday, well, I have as much confidence in B-Mac and Contreras as any other of the 4

[southsideirish71]

Think back to the game against the Tigers where Ozzie had him throwing in the ninth of a game they were losing after throwing over a 100 pitches and having a one hour rain delay.

 

Keep racking up all those innings on the arms Ozzie. Maybe you finally killed them.

[fathom]

So then why in the hell did Ozzie put Garcia out for the 6th inning last night?

[fathom]

Think back to the game against the Tigers where Ozzie had him throwing in the ninth of a game they were losing after throwing over a 100 pitches and having a one hour rain delay. 

 

Keep racking up all those innings on the arms Ozzie.  Maybe you finally killed them.

 

Yet some people still refuse to even consider that Ozzie might be somewhat to blame for our starting pitchers tanking.

[SoxFan562004]

So then why in the hell did Ozzie put Garcia out for the 6th inning last night?

Great question. It was obvious he was struggling either physically or mentally last night. The team got a good offensive output and a lead, he struggled through 5 and put them in a good position. This is the time to use the bullpen...

[SoxFanForever]

Are we referring to Dusty Guillen here?

[fathom]

Are we referring to Dusty Guillen here?

 

Dusty at least got his 2003 Cubs team into the playoffs.

[Balta1701]

Yet some people still refuse to even consider that Ozzie might be somewhat to blame for our starting pitchers tanking.

My only question in response to that statement is this; has Ozzie made any of our starters (other than El Duque) do anything this year in terms of innings pitched or pitches thrown that they haven't done before?

 

In 2002 and 2003, Garland pitched about 192 innings. He's thrown 192 thus far this season. In 2004 he threw 217. So he's probably not going to hit his career high in innigns this year.

 

Buehrle - 2002, 239 innings, 2003 230 innings, 2004 245 innings, and after today he's currently sitting on 219 innings. So he's on pace to end up somewhere between 2002 and 2003...basically what he's done his whole career now.

 

In 2002, Garcia threw 224 innings. In 2003 and 2004, he threw 210 innings. This year, he's already thrown 207.2, so he's throwing slightly more than he has the last few years.

 

Garcia is the only one we should expect to be clsoe to wearing down of those 3.

[Dick Allen]

Ozzie says he trusts his players. He said he talked to Garcia and is going to have Cooper talk to Garcia. If he talked to him and said he was hurt or tired, why would Cooper have to talk to him? Seems goofy to me. Freddy is supposed to be a big game pitcher, and now he may be opting out of a start at the most critical part of this season? Maybe there's room on Marte's plane for him. I think this team is in freefall, even Ozzie's buddies are starting to bail.

Edited September 15, 2005 by Dick Allen

[southsideirish71]

Ozzie says he trusts his players. He said he talked to Garcia and is going to have Cooper talk to Garcia. If he talked to him and said he was hurt or tired, why would Cooper have to talk to him? Seems goofy to me. Freddy is supposed to be a big game pitcher, and now he may be opting out of a start at the most critical part of this season? Maybe there's room on Marte's plane for him. I think this team is in freefall, even Ozzie's buddies are starting to bail.

 

 

Ozzie listening to the players so much is like letting the inmates run the jail.

[bjm676]

That Cleveland series is the biggest series of the year.

 

If Freddy is tired or fatigued or whatever, don't put him out there.

We'll miss Cliff Lee and Sabathia. But we'll face Millwood, Westbrook & Elarton, respectively.

[nitetrain8601]

Ozzie says he trusts his players. He said he talked to Garcia and is going to have Cooper talk to Garcia. If he talked to him and said he was hurt or tired, why would Cooper have to talk to him? Seems goofy to me. Freddy is supposed to be a big game pitcher, and now he may be opting out of a start at the most critical part of this season? Maybe there's room on Marte's plane for him. I think this team is in freefall, even Ozzie's buddies are starting to bail.

 

So you rather have Freddy keep saying he's healthy and get shalacked instead of saying the truth? Rest him and hope you make the playoffs.

[Dick Allen]

So you rather have Freddy keep saying he's healthy and get shalacked instead of saying the truth? Rest him and hope you make the playoffs.

If he says he's healthy and he's not, what's the difference between that and Marte other than Freddy drinks beers with Ozzie? Its time to step up, not look for reasons to bail. If he's hurt its not that bad right now. His concentration is lacking however. The curious thing to me is Ozzie said he talked to him, but now needs Cooper to talk to him. Either Ozzie doesn't trust what Freddy told him or he didn't answer his questions.

Edited September 15, 2005 by Dick Allen

[nitetrain8601]

If he says he's healthy and he's not, what's the difference between that and Marte other than Freddy drinks beers with Ozzie? Its time to step up, not look for reasons to bail. If he's hurt its not that bad right now. His concentration is lacking however.  The curious thing to me is Ozzie said he talked to him, but now needs Cooper to talk to him. Either Ozzie doesn't trust what Freddy told him or he didn't answer his questions.

 

How is bailing if he legitimately is injured? This guy had the same problem last year. My fear is that most of the rotations arms are about to fall off. Maybe that's a reason Buehrle has tailed off badly. Maybe he needs rest. Marte and Garcia are way different situations.

[Balta1701]

How is bailing if he legitimately is injured? This guy had the same problem last year. My fear is that most of the rotations arms are about to fall off. Maybe that's a reason Buehrle has tailed off badly. Maybe he needs rest. Marte and Garcia are way different situations.

Buehrle is still on pace to throw fewer innings than he did last year. There's no rational reason why he should be wearing out. He's thrown this many innings each of the last 4 years.

 

There has to be something in his mechanics. I think Hawk suggested today he might be tipping his changeup by slowing down his delivery. Just something small like that could be enough to throw off a guy like Mark.

[greg775]

Yet some people still refuse to even consider that Ozzie might be somewhat to blame for our starting pitchers tanking.

 

What does Oz do regarding his pitchers that any manager in America would not do??

Fathom maybe we'll blow the lead and you'll get the wish and Oz will quit.

Who do you think will be any better in handling pitching?

It's not like Ozzie is reinventing baseball.

[fathom]

What does Oz do regarding his pitchers that any manager in America would not do??

Fathom maybe we'll blow the lead and you'll get the wish and Oz will quit.

Who do you think will be any better in handling pitching?

It's not like Ozzie is reinventing baseball.

 

Ozzie consistently leaves his starting pitchers in for far too long. I don't have any stats in front of me, but I guarantee that our main 4 starters are all among the leaders in pitches per starts. And no, I don't want us to blow the lead. In regards to who could better handle the pitching? About 95 pct of managers in baseball. When DJ is saying that a pitcher isn't being handled properly, you know there's an issue.

[Balta1701]

Ozzie consistently leaves his starting pitchers in for far too long.  I don't have any stats in front of me, but I guarantee that our main 4 starters are all among the leaders in pitches per starts.  And no, I don't want us to blow the lead.  In regards to who could better handle the pitching? About 95 pct of managers in baseball.  When DJ is saying that a pitcher isn't being handled properly, you know there's an issue.

The only team who's bullpen has pitched fewer innings than that of the White Sox is the St. Louis Cardinals. The only team who's starters have pitched more innings than those of the White Sox is, again, the Cards. Now, that's probably a bit askew because we've used 6 different starting pitchers this season, and we've had people come and go out of the bullpen...but in terms of total amount of innings pitched by the starters, we're #2 in the league.

[greg775]

If it's a problem then Coop should speak up.

I thought in all the interviews he acts like it's his staff, etc.

If there's been a problem and Coop has watched quietly then he should be fired.

 

p.s. If what you say is true, the Cards haven't had much of a problem with their staff.

[Balta1701]

p.s. If what you say is true, the Cards haven't had much of a problem with their staff.

The top 5 in "Innings pitched by the starting pitchers"

 

1. St. Louis

2. Sox

3. Minnesota

4. Houston

5. LA Angels.

 

The bottom 5 in "Innings pitched by the relief pitchers, whoever they are":

 

1. St. Louis

2. Sox

3. NY Mets

4. Houston

5. Boston

[fathom]

If it's a problem then Coop should speak up.

I thought in all the interviews he acts like it's his staff, etc.

If there's been a problem and Coop has watched quietly then he should be fired.

 

p.s. If what you say is true, the Cards haven't had much of a problem with their staff.

 

Cooper's the best coach in the organization.

[greg775]

He's the damn pitching coach and you are complaining about the innings.

Why aren't you blaming the pitching coach??

[Guest JimH]

I know they have drastically cut down on the starters throwing in between starts.

 

It's common baseball practice for starting pitchers to have a side session in between their starts, and Cooper said a few weeks ago on the radio they were cutting down on that big time as the season wore along.

 

For what that's worth.

 

DJ must have mentioned 6 times that Buehrle was telegraphing the changeup, and I have to trust his judgement. Wouldn't Cooper talk to him between innings or something to fix that problem?

 

Mechanics can get out of whack if a guy is fresh or if a guy is tired, but nobody is hitting on anything close to all cylinders right now. Nobody.