greg775 Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 Do you all think the Sox problem is we do a piss poor job of player development once the player hits the bigs? How else do you explain the flameouts of many of our players and pitchers? As much as I detest KW and I want him fired of course ... do you think our skipper and our last skipper and virtually all of our big league coaches do a piss poor job of player development?? I mean if Crede washes out, that is the last straw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 I think it all starts with the type of players we draft to how they bring them up. In the past we rushed prospects but now the Sox don't appear willing to do that, which is huge. I also tend to think Nardi set some of our pitchers back, but it also happens that some pitchers can make it others can't. Sox have done a good job drafting talent (Thats KW's job) but they haven't necessarily developed it best (Coaches Job - Mixed with KW moving them through the systems or whoever decides that). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleM23 Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 Jason is 100% correct... Problem isn't that we have bad prospects, problem is we rush them (see Wells, Kip and Garland, Jon) and give them crappy coaches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 how do MB and Mags fit into this we can't development anyone theory? Frank? Ray Durham? Clee? 14 game winner Danny Wright? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleM23 Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 Frank and Ray Durham aren't of this new batch of prospects, that, in most cases has been pretty much all hype with very little on field performance... Outside of Mark and Maggs the Sox have had a real problem with developing consistent starters for the big league team. Lee, for as good as he can be, still lacks baseball fundamentals, Wells was traded away after two less than expected seasons and a now a month into what was supposed to be his break out year, Garland is on the verge of demotion to the bullpen or AAA. Too early to judge Wright, but over his career, he's been inconsistent. It is also to early to judge as to whether Joe Crede will be the stud we all hoped he will be, though, I fully expect him to be a consistent .275/25/100 guy in a lineup capable of being as good as we are. Rauch will hopefully bounce back, but he's no negative as he will go down as the victim of injury rather than burst hype if he fails. After that, the rest of the "youngsters" we have seen are all products, or at least semi-products of other teams: Konerko, Olivo, Singleton, Jimenez, etc. That, and the #1 picks since the days of Alex Fernandez, Frank Thomas, Jack McDowell, and Robin Ventura have been lacking with busts like Mark Johnson, Jason Dallaero, Scott Ruffcorn... Bla, bla, bla... Hopefully Kris Honel, Joe Borchard, and Royce Ring can turn that tide again. Overall, the Sox are a competent scouting and developing team. The real problem with them lies in the inability of the front office to target and correct problems at the Major League level. From the years between 1994-2001 the Sox did nothing to try and rebuild their rotation from mediocrity except for the famous Doug Drabek/Jaime Navarro signings. Miguel Olivo may FINALLY give us a solid MLB catcher, but we are still incredibly weak here, not only at the Big Show, but throughout the whole organization. Center field? Forget about it. You know that a team is struggling there when they have to promote Willie Harris to the role. White Sox baseball.... We don't know what the f*** we're doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 I think it all starts with the type of players we draft to how they bring them up. In the past we rushed prospects but now the Sox don't appear willing to do that, which is huge. I also tend to think Nardi set some of our pitchers back, but it also happens that some pitchers can make it others can't. Sox have done a good job drafting talent (Thats KW's job) but they haven't necessarily developed it best (Coaches Job - Mixed with KW moving them through the systems or whoever decides that). Actually, the GM is a lot less involved in the drafting of players than you think. KW was more involved before he became GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 how do MB and Mags fit into this we can't development anyone theory? Frank? Ray Durham? Clee? 14 game winner Danny Wright? we develop clee???...into what a dumbas$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 we develop clee???...into what a dumbas$ hey this is his break out year......or was that last year??? hmm, come to think of it, it was the year before wasnt it?????......i dont remember.....it seems to keep happening each year..........lol.......is it ever gonna be his break out year???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 we develop clee???...into what a dumbas$ dumbass? how much money are you earning this year playing major league ball? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1549 Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 IMO, Williams f'ed up the 2001 draft. Made a big mistake passing on Heilman. Not that Honel is bad, because he is a great pitcher, but Heilman is besting Honel's A numbers in AAA. Ah, the benefits of drafting pitchers out of college. Kenny should have taken Heilman, who went only 2 picks after Honel. Heilman is also 6'5 and put up great numbers at ND, how Williams passed on him, I have no idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPinStripes Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 dumbass? how much money are you earning this year playing major league ball? Just because the Sox are dumb enough to pay him that amount of money doesnt make Clee a smart guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 dumbass? how much money are you earning this year playing major league ball? Just because the Sox are dumb enough to pay him that amount of money doesnt make Clee a smart guy. makes him smarter than us who aren't getting paid big meague money... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 The thing that has always caught my eye about the Sox system is the best years always seem to happen at AA Birmingham. Is that the Wally Backman influence, or just the kind of guys we draft, I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 dumbass? how much money are you earning this year playing major league ball? i didnt say his agent was a dumbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSOX45 Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 how do MB and Mags fit into this we can't development anyone theory? Frank? Ray Durham? Clee? 14 game winner Danny Wright? Exactly CW. Everyone forgets about Danny's 14 wins, and all they look at is his above 5 E.R.A. IMHO the only stat matters is the wins category. If you have a lot of wins that means you keep your team in the game. CWSOX45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 His last 7 starts he was brilliant. It was also his first full season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted May 12, 2003 Author Share Posted May 12, 2003 It's definitely time to give Backman a try. Managers can make a difference. Look at Tony Pena here in KC. The players love him and are hustling their butts off. I say we go with Backman (who I admittedly know nothing about) and Greg Walker as hitting coach. Walker was a good hitter, always hit the ball hard, before he got hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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