DonkeyKongerko Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 Just saw this on ESPN. I don't know if the Marlins said why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 Just saw this on ESPN. I don't know if the Marlins said why. Because he's abusing the s*** out of his pitchers...burnett gone, beckett to dl now, penny last year also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPinStripes Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 I'll take him on the south side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 I'll take him on the south side. JT is a hell of alot better than the clown we have now. I would take him back again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPinStripes Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 Torborg wouldnt be as valuable with the way the Sox are built now. He needs speed. Everyone says how JM is a small ball manager.......... JT makes it happen. I dont see it with Manuel. THe 1990 Sox were a great team and i was kinda pissed they went in a different direction after Torborg was fired. Give JT speed, defense and decent pitching, he can make it happen. IF JT was to manage here again, they'll need to trade some people. I doubt they'll change the make up of this team. Sox have been trying t build a power house lineup with decent pitching no defense and a slow team for so long, the f***in bone heads still cant realize that's not what wins baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2003/0510/1552071.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 Because he's abusing the s*** out of his pitchers...burnett gone, beckett to dl now, penny last year also if that is so, we definitely do not need Torberg again - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPinStripes Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 if that is so, we definitely do not need Torberg again - Maybe he didnt want to go to his bullpen because there's nothing there? Torborg used to use the bullpen a lot when he was here. Not like Manuel, but he tried to use Wayne Edwards, Barry Jones and always had to bring in Thigpen. Makes a difference when you have a good bullpen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 Torborg wouldnt be as valuable with the way the Sox are built now. He needs speed. Everyone says how JM is a small ball manager.......... JT makes it happen. I dont see it with Manuel. THe 1990 Sox were a great team and i was kinda pissed they went in a different direction after Torborg was fired. Give JT speed, defense and decent pitching, he can make it happen. IF JT was to manage here again, they'll need to trade some people. I doubt they'll change the make up of this team. Sox have been trying t build a power house lineup with decent pitching no defense and a slow team for so long, the f***in bone heads still cant realize that's not what wins baseball. You forgot to mention that his management of pitching staffs is ABSOLUTELY the worst in baseball. There's no way I take him over JM with this flaw in his style. Buehrle and Colon would throw far too much and he'd kill the confidence of the young guys overusing them. No way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPinStripes Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 You forgot to mention that his management of pitching staffs is ABSOLUTELY the worst in baseball. There's no way I take him over JM with this flaw in his style. Buehrle and Colon would throw far too much and he'd kill the confidence of the young guys overusing them. No way. If he has a bullpen to work with, i'll bet he wouldnt overuse his pitchers. He did use the pen ALOT when he was here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 You forgot to mention that his management of pitching staffs is ABSOLUTELY the worst in baseball. There's no way I take him over JM with this flaw in his style. Buehrle and Colon would throw far too much and he'd kill the confidence of the young guys overusing them. No way. I agree with you. Id much rather have JM than JT! If JM were to get fired, Wally Beckman would be the 1st choice. Then Bobby Valentine, then other active managers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPinStripes Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 I agree with you. Id much rather have JM than JT! If JM were to get fired, Wally Beckman would be the 1st choice. Then Bobby Valentine, then other active managers. I'll take Torborg over JM, but i'll take Backman over any of them. Love the fire in that guy. Real whack job. My kind of manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPinStripes Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 I'm still not sure about Valentine though. He seems to be in love with the camera more then anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 I'm still not sure about Valentine though. He seems to be in love with the camera more then anything. Valentine is the biggest con job in history - his winning % is lower than JM's, as well as his % of seasons managed to teams in the post season, and he has never won a division title, ever. If Valentine loves the camera more than the sound of his own voice, that would be news! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 if that is so, we definitely do not need Torberg again - Heard Kevin Kennedy and another baseball guy talking about Torborg and they say thats just what they are using as a scapegoat. They all believe Torborg is one of the better managers in all of baseball and think that its a bunch of crap that he doesn't understand pitching. They mentioned that Torborg preached lower body workouts and some of the pitchers didn't necessarily agree with him and it was more that which led to arm injuries. Plus, Torborg won't be making that call, Brian Cooper would. Torborg would be an awesome pickup. Right when I heard it this morning I thought, BRING HIM BACK. This is exactly the type of mentality this team needs and Torborg KNOWS the game of baseball. As a former catcher he understands pitching and knows quite a bit about mechanics, etc. Also to blame him for the injuries of Beckett wouldn't be right (Becketts injuries have mainly been because of blisters, other things) while Burnett wasn't only being worked by Torborg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 I was never totally thrilled with Torberg when he was with us but I liked him a great deal - I have problems with the way he just left us - we didn't let him go, he walked on us - and that would make me hesitate a lot - who is to say he won't walk again - his record of staying on his own anywhere isn't that hot - but he did fine by us - so it is 6 of one, half dozen of the other Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 I also say I want him as long as its the pitching coach, Cooper, making the majority calls when it comes to pitchers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 I also say I want him as long as its the pitching coach, Cooper, making the majority calls when it comes to pitchers. I really believe that most of the pitching stuff does not go through JM, just his style seems to be to trust his staff to do what they are supposed to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 if that is so, we definitely do not need Torberg again - Maybe he didnt want to go to his bullpen because there's nothing there? Torborg used to use the bullpen a lot when he was here. Not like Manuel, but he tried to use Wayne Edwards, Barry Jones and always had to bring in Thigpen. Makes a difference when you have a good bullpen. No, see it doesn't matter if your bullpen is mediocre, when he's having Burnett throwing 120, 130, 140 pitches every single start when he has a clear record of arm injuries already, something's wrong. You cannot be that ignorant to those high pitch counts every single time the guys starts, that's a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 He'll find work quickly. I doubt he will be unemployed too long. Out of curiousity how bad was the Sox break up with Torborg? Were the bridges burned or was it amicable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox247 Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 Sox have been trying t build a power house lineup with decent pitching no defense and a slow team for so long, the f***in bone heads still cant realize that's not what wins baseball. RPS, thats exactly what I wanted to say. Everyone's complaining how the Sox need to run more, but the fact is, they don't have that speedy, smallball makeup as a club. Part of that blame has to go to KW, when is he gonna realize that speed is a huge part of baseball? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 If the Sox ever decided to replace JM and you know it will happen sometime even if it's 5 years from now why would we want a retread as a manager? Our leaders have made some real poor moves in the past concerning managerial changes so why pick up someone who has been let go by another team? I would rather look at a fresh face with fresh ideas. The team as it stands now runs just as Bobby V said the other night...barely. We bring up a speedster and he hits less than .100. Can't run if you don't get on base. I hope Willie Harris starts to hit so we can see some speed. We have a few that might be able to run, a limited few yes, but we have some. Anyway let's root for the Sox today and hope we come out of the West 3-3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 The biggest plus in Backman is that he isn't a retread. I also ask how often to retread managers end up doing something really good. They typically keep going around and then end up settling as a bench coach somewhere or retiring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 The positive about Torborg is the fact that he would make our offense deadlier than it is. His way of running all the f***ing time would drive other teams crazy. They'd always have to watch out for a SB, and to keep us from stealing, we would see a lot more fastballs. Fastball = more balls not landing. The negative about him is his overabuse of the pitching staff. We'd have to see about that. I tend to agree with RPS...if given a good bullpen, he'd use it quite a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 The positive about Torborg is the fact that he would make our offense deadlier than it is. His way of running all the f***ing time would drive other teams crazy. They'd always have to watch out for a SB, and to keep us from stealing, we would see a lot more fastballs. Fastball = more balls not landing. The negative about him is his overabuse of the pitching staff. We'd have to see about that. I tend to agree with RPS...if given a good bullpen, he'd use it quite a bit. But as long as Cooper is calling the shots with the staff, like he is right now, we really wouldn't have too many worries. Thats the rule though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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