ZoomSlowik Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 I gotta say, it's close. I'm not sure which would hurt more to not have in the lineup. Even assuming that we had still gotten Iguchi, AJ, and Dye without the trade, our lineup would probably be: 2B- Tadahito Iguchi SS- Juan Uribe LF- Carlos Lee 1B- Paul Konerko DH- Everett/Thomas in the 3 hole when healthy C- A.J. Pierznski RF- Jermaine Dye CF- Aaron Rowand 3B- Joe Crede That lineup still isn't that stellar. Carlos isn't exactly tearing the cover off the ball either, that OBP is brutal. Scotty might be worth less when he isn't running, but he still gets on base. We'd probably still be in that dreaded "we hit a lot of solo homeruns" mode. Granted Lee probably would have hit a little better hear, but a healthy Pods makes a difference, and with the other guys we got with the money it isn't that close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 The Brewers got the better end of the deal.. barley We gave up a .280/30/100 guy which we needed this year for a leadoff guy which was also needed. If we would have been able to get a SP in the deal which I called for.. Then we would have gotten a better deal..Instead we got stuck who LV.. a one year wonder while with the Brewers.. Funny.. I remember another 1 year wonder KW traded for and then the PR dept tried to tell us how great he was..Cough Todd Ritchie Cough.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 Also, this is one of the worst setup polls in the history of Soxtalk, the next time you decide to make a poll try to use a little more objectivity. The way the choices are phrased you're influencing the voter's selection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 Lee's Win Shares = 24 Podsednik's Win Shares + Vizcaino's Win Shares = 18 MIL gains 6 win shares, CHI loses 6 win shares.* *The White Sox' actual winning % is higher than their pythagorean winning %, while the Brewers' actual winning % is lower than their pythagorean winning %. This means that the difference of 6 isn't totally accurate and should probably a difference of 9 or 10. Looking at the trade alone, the Brewers undoubtedly win. But if you make the argument that a third 'player' we gained in this trade was about $7 million dollars, it becomes a different story. That extra money helped us obtain AJ and Iguchi. When you throw their win shares into the equation (13 and 16 respectively), it is pretty obvious that this trade helped us more than it hindered us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 We did. You know why? We traded Lee for Pods, Vizcaino, AJ, Dye, Hermanson, and Iguchi. And Lee sucks anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 QUOTE(Felix @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 01:55 PM) We did. You know why? We traded Lee for Pods, Vizcaino, AJ, Dye, Hermanson, and Iguchi. And Lee sucks anyway. This is an incorrect statement, Lee is a very good baseball player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 01:59 PM) This is an incorrect statement, Lee is a very good baseball player. For the type of team the Sox wanted, Lee sucked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 QUOTE(Felix @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 01:02 PM) For the type of team the Sox wanted, Lee sucked. Why again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 The Sox wanted to add speed, a leadoff hitter, pitching, defense, catching, a solid 2b, and a replacement for Maggs. With Pods, Viz, Hermanson, AJ, Dye, and Iguchi, they filled those needs. Lee is an asshole in the clubhouse apparently with below average defense, and is definetly not what the Sox wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 QUOTE(Felix @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 02:05 PM) The Sox wanted to add speed, a leadoff hitter, pitching, defense, catching, a solid 2b, and a replacement for Maggs. With Pods, Viz, Hermanson, AJ, Dye, and Iguchi, they filled those needs. Lee is an asshole in the clubhouse apparently with below average defense, and is definetly not what the Sox wanted. Lee's defense is not below average and the sox make everyone out to be an asshole once they are gone. I can't wait for everything to come out about konerko when he signs with the angels in the off-season. I am positive the sox wanted him but they needed to trade one of konerko/lee to free up the money... and it's not like the brewers had any interest in konerko. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 QUOTE(Felix @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 01:05 PM) The Sox wanted to add speed, a leadoff hitter, pitching, defense, catching, a solid 2b, and a replacement for Maggs. With Pods, Viz, Hermanson, AJ, Dye, and Iguchi, they filled those needs. Lee is an asshole in the clubhouse apparently with below average defense, and is definetly not what the Sox wanted. Lee vs Pods defensively is a moot point. They both are below average. The only Lee issue I ever read about was with Marte. Who seems to be nuts to begin with. We saved 6 million dollars with the trade that we used for AJ and Gooch. I would of rather have raised the payroll 6 million and kept Lee. 76 million dollars with Lee in the lineup is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 02:08 PM) Lee vs Pods defensively is a moot point. They both are below average. According to the stats this year, Pods is the 2/3rd best defensive LF in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 QUOTE(Felix @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 01:10 PM) According to the stats this year, Pods is the 2/3rd best defensive LF in the league. According to stats last year, Carlos Lee should of been a gold glove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 QUOTE(Felix @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 02:05 PM) The Sox wanted to add speed, a leadoff hitter, pitching, defense, catching, a solid 2b, and a replacement for Maggs. With Pods, Viz, Hermanson, AJ, Dye, and Iguchi, they filled those needs. Lee is an asshole in the clubhouse apparently with below average defense, and is definetly not what the Sox wanted. Lee >>> Pods in the field Clubhouse s*** is all circumstantial. The Sox started off building this team around speed and defense and it worked for the first half but as it turns out the Sox need another good RBI man for the middle of the order, which Lee is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 02:10 PM) According to stats last year, Carlos Lee should of been a gold glove. According to LF stats and defensive stats that don't say a whole hell of a lot. GGs are won by people seeing you play not by stats. LFers (Bonds excluded) generally don't win GGs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 QUOTE(Felix @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 02:10 PM) According to the stats this year, Pods is the 2/3rd best defensive LF in the league. Defensive stats don't mean a whole hell of a lot. Pods is well below average, most everyone that watches him play knows that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 11:03 AM) And where is the option for "Not this crap again"? Hehe... irony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(Kalapse @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 02:12 PM) Defensive stats don't mean a whole hell of a lot. Pods is well below average, most everyone that watches him play knows that. I watch him, and I dont think he's below average. He's pretty average in my book, just because of his speed and ability to get to balls which alot of people don't get to. Edited September 22, 2005 by Felix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 QUOTE(Felix @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 12:14 PM) I watch him, and I dont think he's below average. He's pretty average in my book, just because of his speed and ability to get to balls which alot of people don't get to. But he also makes quite a few balls a lot harder to catch than they should be by getting terrible breaks on them (a disease which it seems our other 2 outfielders have caught lately). His speed does make up for things somewhat, but with his speed, he should be able to cover virtually all of left field just by getting decent jumps. He doesn't do that. That tells you something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 02:10 PM) According to stats last year, Carlos Lee should of been a gold glove. Not really. There were 4 people ahead of him in both RF and ZR. Fielding percentage is the worse way to determine how good at defense someone is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 QUOTE(Felix @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 02:14 PM) I watch him, and I dont think he's below average. He's pretty average in my book, just because of his speed and ability to get to balls which alot of people don't get to. You are great at scouting talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 QUOTE(Felix @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 02:14 PM) I watch him, and I dont think he's below average. He's pretty average in my book, just because of his speed and ability to get to balls which alot of people don't get to. Yet at the same time he gets quite possibly the worst jumps in baseball, so in essence he's not getting to any balls that noone else does because he's getting later jumps. He constantly miss plays balls and has 0 arm. Pods is nowhere near average, he's a DH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 QUOTE(Felix @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 01:14 PM) I watch him, and I dont think he's below average. He's pretty average in my book, just because of his speed and ability to get to balls which alot of people don't get to. I can refer you to many plays this year were he just boned it. Go back just a week ago where he turned a fly out into a bad news bears play. Ball hits down fair because he took a bad route, then he dropped the ball, then puss armed it in. Carlos Lee == Pods defensivley Carlos Lee >> Pods with the stick Pods >> Carlos Lee baserunning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 QUOTE(qwerty @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 02:16 PM) You are great at scouting talent. You are great at supporting your favorite team. Can you teach me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 QUOTE(Felix @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 02:17 PM) You are great at supporting your favorite team. Can you teach me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.