Decision Time Approaching For Crede...

[fathom]

Since there aren't many 3rd base options, he'll see an even bigger contract than he probably deserves.

[qwerty]

Mueller plays very solid defense, has put up very solid numbers over the past few seasons, and is a switch hitter.  He's definitely going to get more than 2 million dollars on the market.

 

At this point i would put him in the bottom third of the league. But we do have to sacrafice something, in this case it is defense for offense. Three million is what he will get on the high side per year... we have to remember he will be 35 before the start of next season.

[Harry Chappas]

Mueller is old.

 

What are his numbers outside of Fenway?

 

Crede and Uribe are coming on and are the least of our worries if Podsednik, Rowand, Dye and Everett were doing their jobs we wouldn't be concerned with Uribe adn Crede. These two with AJ and Konerko are the only players worth bringing back as they have defensive abilities. Joe Creded is a solid player nothing more nothing less. He is a solid 5 day a week (sit agaisnt tough righties) 6-9 hitter worth $3-$4M a year.

[qwerty]

Mueller is old.

 

What are his numbers outside of Fenway?

 

Crede and Uribe are coming on and are the least of our worries if Podsednik, Rowand, Dye and Everett were doing their jobs we wouldn't be concerned with Uribe adn Crede.  These two with AJ and Konerko are the only players worth bringing back as they have defensive abilities.  Joe Creded is a solid player nothing more nothing less.  He is a solid 5 day a week (sit agaisnt tough righties) 6-9 hitter worth $3-$4M a year.

 

Wait, you are saying joe crede is worth 3-4 million per year?

 

Mueller has better home slugging than on the road but that would not be a worry of ours if he came to the sox. I would be expecting the same type of slugging he has in fenway if not better.

[TaylorStSox]

At this point i would put him in the bottom third of the league. But we do have to sacrafice something, in this case it is defense for offense. Three million is what he will get on the high side per year... we have to remember he will be 35 before the start of next season.

 

 

Having a good IF defense is invaluable for a team that's not built on K pitchers. We have some damn good starters but 3 of them really rely on a strong IF.

 

The positions that I would look to upgrade, offensively, are DH, CF and LF. In actuality, both Crede and Uribe have been more productive than Rowand, hitting in the 8th and 9th spots. If Pods can't run, he doesn't have much value to us. Of course, we'll still be looking for a lead off hitter.

 

The bottom of the order hasn't hurt us nearly as much as some would like to think. The 3-seven (broken seven key) hitters haven't produced enough.

 

The only time somebody's carried us for more than a few days was Konerko's August.

 

If we have money to spend, I'd look to possibly sign PK to an extension (which I've been opposed to for a long time, but with this market, we're in a bind) and work a trade for Delgado. That shores up the DH position and Delgado could produce enough at the Cell to make up for the lack of production from Rowand. Or, we could add Pierre to that and move him to CF. Then, we could get rid of both Rowand and Pods while still having a lead off bat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

disclaimer:

that post was insane

[Frank the Tank 35]

Since there aren't many 3rd base options, he'll see an even bigger contract than he probably deserves.

 

I see your point, but look at the other teams:

NY Arod

Bos Youk or whomever

Balt Mora

TB Cantu, Huff, Upton (he might be switching)

Tor Hill

KC Teahan

Detroit Inge

Minny ?

Cleveland Boone

Seattle Beltre

A's Chavez

Texas Blalock

Anaheim McPherson

Marlins Cabrera/Lowell

Cubs Ramirez

Cards Rolen

Atl Chipper

Mets Wright

Zona Glaus

Houston Ensberg

Washington Castilla

Cinci Aurilia

Colorado Atkins

Brewers Hall? Branyan? Helms?

Philly Bell

San Fran Alfonso

Pads Randa Burroughs

Dodgers Aybar

Pitt Mackowiak Wigginton

 

The only teams that need 3B help are Minnesota, the Nats, Philly, the Pads, and Pitt. Now you KNOW Pitt isn't going to spend and probably not the Nats either. I can't see Minnesota going FA crazy. The Pads may as well either try to bring Burroughs along or resign Randa to a one year deal. Philly I could see maybe replacing David Bell. So IMO the only teams we'd probably be bidding against would be Minny and Philly. So although it is correct to say it is a weak FA market, there simply isn't much of a demand for third basemen.

[bigredrudy]

Due to a lack of options I'd say that we shoudl off him arbitration on a year to year basis for now. As it gets mroe expensive-I'd make my decision accordingly. I'd rather have Muller but if there are no other optiosn I'd keep Joe but without getting locked into a long deal

Joe Crede is not the big problem on this club.I think it is generally accepted that OPS is the standard by which most people judge offensive contributions from a particular player. Here are the OPS's for the following players. Rowand .743, Everett .748, Pierzynski .744 and Crede .742. In other words these players contribute about the same. Rowand and Crede contribute good defense while Pierzynski does not and Everett not at all. The big culprit in all of this is Everett who is a terrible DH. What do you say to this?

[Frank the Tank 35]

I'm definitely all for dumping Everett... he'd be great as a #7 or maybe #6 in our weak lineup... but #3 or cleanup is ridiculous. He really has no place on our team. I see that a lot of people want to keep either this player or that player, but the reality is we can't keep all these players. Sure individually they're all nice players, but we can't have all #6 hitters. We DO need someone extraordinary and to do that we have to eliminate some of the lovable, BUT very ordinary, players.

[Balta1701]

I'm definitely all for dumping Everett... he'd be great as a #7 or maybe #6 in our weak lineup... but #3 or cleanup is ridiculous.  He really has no place on our team.  I see that a lot of people want to keep either this player or that player, but the reality is we can't keep all these players.  Sure individually they're all nice players, but we can't have all #6 hitters.  We DO need someone extraordinary and to do that we have to eliminate some of the lovable, BUT very ordinary, players.

Carl Everett right now is making $5 million a year that this team cannot afford to spend on him, with the glut of young outfielders we have coming up.

 

Quite seriously...Joe Borchard and Brian Anderson should get chances to be on this team next year. I'm serious about Borchard...I want him to get 1 more shot. Carl Everett is in the way of that, and he'll make 5x as much next year as Borchard and Anderson combined.

 

We need to start getting the young guys we have coming up into these ballgames for a long time and let them grow. It's worked damn well for Cleveland. We have talent on the way up, now s the time to give it a shot.

[Kalapse]

I see your point, but look at the other teams:

 

Cinci Aurilia

 

Cinci has Edwin Encanarcion at thirdbase.

[CWSGuy406]

Joe Crede is not the big problem on this club.I think it is generally accepted that OPS is the standard by which most people judge offensive contributions from a particular player. Here are the OPS's for the following players. Rowand .743, Everett .748, Pierzynski .744 and Crede .742. In other words these players contribute about the same. Rowand and Crede contribute good defense while Pierzynski does not and Everett not at all. The big culprit in all of this is Everett who is a terrible DH. What do you say to this?

 

Uhh -- Pierzynski's .744 OPS for catchers is only surpassed by Posada, Mauer, Martinez, Varitek, and Pudge (by three points). That makes him about the 'average' AL catcher. Having a 'league average' catcher is not a bad thing, especially when he does such a good job calling the game (or so we hear).

 

Rowand plays a much more premium defensive position then Crede does, too. There aren't many guys who can go get 'em like Aaron can, Tuesday not withstanding.

 

Off the top of my head, these are the following guys who I think have a higher OPS then Crede in the AL -- A-Rod, Mueller, Mora, Cantu (2B/3B, IIRC), Cuddyer (maybe), Chavez, Blalock. There's seven right there, many of them playing in a lot worse hitting parks than US Cellular.

 

Everett, I agree with. He better not be back. What happened to the two-strike approach? Not good enough to just hit singles anymore, eh Carl?

[Frank the Tank 35]

Cinci has Edwin Encanarcion at thirdbase.

 

Yeah, they don't play him all the time though. Felipe Lopez has turned out to be their surprise offensive stud, and he plays SS meaning Rich Aurilia, who has had somewhat of a renaissance this year, frequents 3rd.

[Kalapse]

Yeah, they don't play him all the time though.  Felipe Lopez has turned out to be their surprise offensive stud, and he plays SS meaning Rich Aurilia, who has had somewhat of a renaissance this year, frequents 3rd.

Edwin has played 46 games at 3B compared to Aurilia who has played 16 games at 3B and most of those came when giving Randa the day off earlier in the year. Aurilia mainly plays 2B with Lopez at SS and Freel playing OF or giving guys days off in the infield.

[RockRaines]

... or they will g to arbitration with him. Why sign a below average player to a muti year deal unless you expect him to make more in arbitration than the long term deal. He has three years of arbitration left and i expect them to offer it to him for two more years ( if he sticks around) and then go from there.

I dont believe Joe is below average. I have seen him make strides in my mind of the past few years, and I think we are spoiled by having someone reliable at 3B. Imagine having pablo there every game, cause thats about what we can hope for. If anyone on this board thinks we are going to sign a big name FA they are mistaken. Nobody is going to change my mind on this. I think Joe is about as reliable as they come at the hot corner, and I would hate to see him go.

[TaylorStSox]

1) Resign PK

2) Arbitration for Crede

3) Pods, Fields, Tracey, lower level prospect for Delgado, Pierre... The Fish want to get rid of Delgado's contract. We take on the whole thing and give them a needed 3B prospect along with Pods to fill the hole left from Pierre. With Cabrera moving to 3rd we could always offer a different prospect not named Chris Young. Or, you could offer them Rowand and start Anderson. Even with Anderson's big swing, he couldn't possibly K more than Rowand. He wouldn't be a defensive downgrade. He has to able to produce better power numbers.

 

 

Pierre

Iguchi

Delgado

Konerko

Dye

AJ

Rowand

Uribe

Crede

 

That line up's much better because of Delgado. An impact bat could change alot of approaches with the rest of the guys in the line up.

 

Hell, since this is all speculation, we sign Giles too. We could throw him in left.

 

Pierre

Iguchi

Giles

Delgado

Konerko

Dye

AJ

Uribe

Crede

 

While we're at it, we upgrade the pen with Wagner.

 

We raise our payroll to 105 million. We win the world series. Everyone is happy.

 

 

I win.

[Balta1701]

We raise our payroll to 105 million. We win the world series. Everyone is happy.

The White Sox having a higher payroll than the Cubs? Beautiful. That'll be the day.

[elrockinMT]

Joe Crede is a gold glove caliber thirdbaseman. He may not hit .300, but he takes enough hits away from those that do to make up for it. He also has talent and we need to be willling to help that develop into star material.

[Punch and Judy Garland]

Joe Crede is a gold glove caliber thirdbaseman. He may not hit .300, but he takes enough hits away from those that do to make up for it. He also has talent and we need to be willling to help that develop into star material.

 

 

the "makes up for it argument" is thrown around a little loosely. Show me a fact that backs up that his defense makes him a better than average third-baseman when it comes to combining all facets of the game.

[TaylorStSox]

the "makes up for it argument" is thrown around a little loosely. Show me a fact that backs up that his defense makes him a better than average third-baseman when it comes to combining all facets of the game.

 

 

It's not something that you can back up with any type of evidence. A good defensive IF changes the way pitchers approach the game.

 

Other people might not have noticed, but when Crede went down, our pitchers stopped attacking hitters. Coincidence? Possibly. I'd like to believe differently.

[Gene Honda Civic]

Everett, I agree with.  He better not be back.  What happened to the two-strike approach?  Not good enough to just hit singles anymore, eh Carl?

Jurassic doesn't believe in X-tra base hits either.

 

His non-HR Xtra base hit % (oh yeah, I just made that up just now) is the lowest of any regular on the team.

[elrockinMT]

It's not something that you can back up with any type of evidence. A good defensive IF changes the way pitchers approach the game.

 

Other people might not have noticed, but when Crede went down, our pitchers stopped attacking hitters. Coincidence? Possibly. I'd like to believe differently.

 

 

I think it also is a justified statement based on how Crede is rated by those that see him everyday. Plus there have been gold glove comments on Crede made by other folks outside the organization.

[Punch and Judy Garland]

I think that saying something can't be backed by eivdence is a copout. I don't have one statistic that I love for defense but come on. That's just hyperbole.

[TaylorStSox]

I think that saying something can't be backed by eivdence is a copout. I don't have one statistic that I love for defense but come on. That's just hyperbole.

 

 

Unless you watch the games. You haven't noticed a difference in the approach of our pitchers?

 

Statistics are so overdone in baseball. It's beyond pathetic. You look at a guy like Ryan Sweeney and his numbers don't wow you. If you've seen his swing, and his frame, then it would make you optimistic that this kid's going to produce.

[Texsox]

I think that saying something can't be backed by eivdence is a copout. I don't have one statistic that I love for defense but come on. That's just hyperbole.

 

Better organizations manage the intangibles. Not everything can be proven with objective evidence. Subjective is why we play the games.

[Frank the Tank 35]

Ok guys, since some of you are hellbent on retaining Crede... how exactly would you change the lineup?? You obviously realize that this lineup is inept at producing runs. The Marlins are NOT going to trade Pierre, why the heck would they? They have absolutely no reason to do so. Delgado... maybe even though I don't recall them trying to unload his contract at the trade deadline and the fact that they JUST signed him... seems weird that they would want to trade him. But in any event, we'd be fortunate to pull that off. So who DO we trade or let go then? Obviously I think everyone agrees on Everett, but more needs to be done. Don't kid yourselves with delusions of grand "potential" stats. As we've seen this year, we need to plan for the worst. PLAN on Arow only being a .275 hitter with little pop, plan on Crede and Uribe swinging for the fences and popping out or striking out 7 times out of 10, count on AJ hitting 40 points below his career average for whatever reason, count on Frank not being back. Why you ask? Because plan on our pitching staff not being able to duplicate what it did in the first half of this year next year. Because they haven't shown signs of getting better. What do you have then? A miserable lineup, just like this year. There HAVE to be replacements, plain and simple...people that can actually hit. Looking at career numbers and contract situations, I say Crede's the odd man out. He's gotta hit .500 in the last 2 weeks of the season for me to even think about bringing his popup prone bat back.