KW did what he said he was going to do

[southsideirish71]

Both of our BA's are now tied at .261 for the year. We are tied for second worst in the AL. Our pitching is great, but we cant hit. Only Seattle is worse than the two teams in BA.

 

Too bad KW didnt try to model us after the Indians.

 

Maybe thats next years Soxfest speech.

[Dick Allen]

Both of our BA's are now tied at .261 for the year.  We are tied for second worst in the AL.   Our pitching is great, but we cant hit.  Only Seattle is worse than the two teams in BA.

 

Too bad KW didnt try to model us after the Indians.

 

Maybe thats next years Soxfest speech.

If this team doesn't make the playoffs and KW is still around at Soxfest who will buy anything that comes out of his mouth? I'm not calling him a liar, I'm just saying his thinking will have to be proven flawed by then. Chemistry

Edited September 23, 2005 by Dick Allen

[DBAHO]

What are the numbers for Pre and Post All Star Break Numbers for the Offense?

[Steff]

How is it the GM's fault the players peed themselves..? Ozzie asked for, and got, what he wanted from the GM and owners and it worked for 3 months. It's now the GM's fault Ozzie mismanaged (according to many) and the players suck (according to many)?

 

 

I'm going.. and I'll be in the Q&A.. but if we don't make the playoffs, or get swept from them.. it's not Kenny I'll be yelling at in January.

[DonkeyKongerko]

I understand the frustration but team batting average doesn't really tell the whole story. Last year Minnesota had a .266 team average and did ok. This year Tampa Bay is at .274 and Detroit is at .272, I don't see them bragging about it.

 

As for Cleveland, they hit .276 last year and still finished in 3rd place. Their pitching being tops in the AL probably has more to do with it.

[DBAHO]

It seems from my viewpoint there's a collective hatred towards Ozzie which is really gaining momentum. I've said it once, I'll say it again. KW should NOT be fired for this.

 

KW's just gotta weigh up in the improvements he's made to this team from hiring Ozzie from the looser clubhouse etc. are worth the mistakes he's making in terms of handling a pitching staff, and playing "his" guys.

[DBAHO]

I understand the frustration but team batting average doesn't really tell the whole story. Last year Minnesota had a .266 team average and did ok. This year Tampa Bay is at .274 and Detroit is at .272, I don't see them bragging about it.

 

As for Cleveland, they hit .276 last year and still finished in 3rd place. Their pitching being tops in the AL probably has more to do with it.

Especially after how bad they were at the start of the season, when the likes of Victor Martinez and Aaron Boone were hitting below .200. Bet they were happy with their offense then!!!

[Dick Allen]

How is it the GM's fault the players peed themselves..? Ozzie asked for, and got, what he wanted from the GM and owners and it worked for 3 months. It's now the GM's fault Ozzie mismanaged (according to many) and the players suck (according to many)?

I'm going.. and I'll be in the Q&A.. but if we don't make the playoffs, or get swept  from them.. it's not Kenny I'll be yelling at in January.

He's ultimately responsible for the roster, and I believe he is ultimately responsible for picking the manager although that one he may have had no choice. Hopefully this is all much to do about nothing the Sox win their next 7 games, Cleveland loses a couple and the Sox breeze through the playoffs, and Ozzie can retire with a White Sox World Series ring.

[southsideirish71]

I understand the frustration but team batting average doesn't really tell the whole story. Last year Minnesota had a .266 team average and did ok. This year Tampa Bay is at .274 and Detroit is at .272, I don't see them bragging about it.

 

As for Cleveland, they hit .276 last year and still finished in 3rd place. Their pitching being tops in the AL probably has more to do with it.

 

 

Our pitching was decent in August. If we hit at all in August we would of had a much better month.

 

Now we had a hard time hitting late in the games.

 

I dont care how good your pitching is, you still have to score more than a few runs to win. This is the AL.

[Harry Chappas]

KW put a contending product on the field in 2003 and 2005, unfortunatly he was hamstrung by his manger in 2003 and may be once again 2005.

 

Although I think he should've gotten a bat, the manager is not putting his players and team in a position to win.

[DBAHO]

Can I just say, I've never seen a manager gone from getting numerous praises around the league and being considered a shoe - in for AL Manager of the Year, to one that the majority of his fan base wants fired. Quite a fall from grace.

[kapkomet]

Can I just say, I've never seen a manager gone from getting numerous praises around the league and being considered a shoe - in for AL Manager of the Year, to one that the majority of his fan base wants fired. Quite a fall from grace.

What are you saying, we're fickle?

 

Duh. Welcome to White Sox Baseball.

 

And while I'm at it, a special shout out to those who b****ed all season long. Bet you all feel better, right?

[southsideirish71]

What are you saying, we're fickle?

 

Duh.  Welcome to White Sox Baseball.

 

And while I'm at it, a special shout out to those who b****ed all season long.  Bet you all feel better, right?

 

 

I have been a pretty outspoken critic of our offense. I never thought it would cost us a playoff birth or the division though. My only comment is that I thought that with some medicore pitchers shutting us down during the year that if we competed with some good offenses in the playoffs, I didnt think our pitching style would allow for shutouts. That we would need to score some runs in the post season to get past round one. I always assumed our stellar pitching would keep up, that our defense would be solid and that pods would rip off 80 or more stolen bases.

 

I never saw that hte offense would completely die in August. I never saw the september pitching issues. I never saw dropping series against the terrible royals in september.

 

This offense has frustrated me since the beginning of the season, it makes me ill to see games like last night where Bmac balls up and pitches his ass off only to watch our team struggle to push across one run with bases loaded. That type of performance is what I saw last year against the twins in August. When I watched Carlos Lee falling over trying to park a pitch into the night instead of making contact and getting a needed single.

 

I feel sick to my stomach about how bad this has turned. I always thought that we had the pitching and defense to win a championship here, my only concern was would the offense die in the playoffs like 2000. Right now all I want is the chance for this team to make the playoffs and to see what happens.

 

[Balta1701]

What are the numbers for Pre and Post All Star Break Numbers for the Offense?

G AB R H 2B 3B HR TB RBI BA OBP SLG OPS

Pre

86 2886 413 755 126 6 106 1211 394 .262 .323 .420 .743

Post

66 2296 286 600 118 12 83 991 278 .261 .319 .432 .751

 

10th in the league in runs scored Pre-AS Break. 18th in the league Post AS break. Batting average, OBP both virtually the same, Slugging and OPS actually slightly up since the break.

 

The biggest difference, and really the only difference, is that we're still getting almost exactly as many hits, walks, HR, as before the break...but somehow we're scoring less runs.

 

4.80 runs per game before the break.

4.333 runs per game after the break.

 

You know what I think the difference is? The difference is we stopped playing smart ball. I can't look up stats on sacrifice bunts, productive outs, and sac flies, because I don't know who compiles those, but we're just not moving people along any more. We're not getting them over, and when we do get them over, we're not getting them in.

[fathom]

It seems from my viewpoint there's a collective hatred towards Ozzie which is really gaining momentum. I've said it once, I'll say it again. KW should NOT be fired for this.

 

KW's just gotta weigh up in the improvements he's made to this team from hiring Ozzie from the looser clubhouse etc. are worth the mistakes he's making in terms of handling a pitching staff, and playing "his" guys.

 

KW had his best offseason yet as a GM, as he brought in numerous solid players w/the Sox. It's not his fault that his manager is self-destructing in front of everyone. I'll be extremely pissed if KW is the scapegoat, and Ozzie stays.

[fathom]

Can I just say, I've never seen a manager gone from getting numerous praises around the league and being considered a shoe - in for AL Manager of the Year, to one that the majority of his fan base wants fired. Quite a fall from grace.

 

Here's a situation I thought was extremely odd. The whole Ozzie sucks momentum with the fans at the game started when he pulled Jenks for Marte against the Royals in that game the Sox won 1-0. The Sox were on the verge of their 7th straight win, yet the fans still went apes*** on Ozzie. No one can blame the fans for only getting pissed at Ozzie when the Sox were losing. I think the whole Ozzie experience has soured with Sox fans.

[fathom]

And while I'm at it, a special shout out to those who b****ed all season long.  Bet you all feel better, right?

 

No, I feel worse.

[SpringfieldFan]

KW put a contending product on the field in 2003 and 2005, unfortunatly he was hamstrung by his manger in 2003 and may be once again 2005.

 

Although I think he should've gotten a bat, the manager is not putting his players and team in a position to win.

 

He DID get a bat. He completed a deal for Griffey (who was at the time healthy), remember? Reds ownership nixed it after the fact but KW did his part. He made the trade; he aquired the bat.

 

SFF

[Allsox]

How is it the GM's fault the players peed themselves..? Ozzie asked for, and got, what he wanted from the GM and owners and it worked for 3 months. It's now the GM's fault Ozzie mismanaged (according to many) and the players suck (according to many)?

I'm going.. and I'll be in the Q&A.. but if we don't make the playoffs, or get swept  from them.. it's not Kenny I'll be yelling at in January.

 

Steff, you might have the mike all to yourself at SoxFest if the Sox don't make the playoffs....Well, maybe the tumbleweed will be blowing through

[DonkeyKongerko]

The biggest difference, and really the only difference, is that we're still getting almost exactly as many hits, walks, HR, as before the break...but somehow we're scoring less runs.

 

4.80 runs per game before the break.

4.333 runs per game after the break.

 

You know what I think the difference is?  The difference is we stopped playing smart ball.  I can't look up stats on sacrifice bunts, productive outs, and sac flies, because I don't know who compiles those, but we're just not moving people along any more.  We're not getting them over, and when we do get them over, we're not getting them in.

 

That's pretty interesting. I also wouldn't think 4.80 to 4.333 would cost us that many games in terms of our record. That's an average of us scoring about one less run every two games.

 

I think back to the smartball thing and that's certainly valid. With Podsednik hamstrung, we are no longer scoring early nor often. That and I feel like our starting pitching is gassed and our bullpen is not up to the task. Besides games against Oakland, how many times did we get blown out in the 1st half of the season?

[SpringfieldFan]

And while I'm at it, a special shout out to those who b****ed all season long.  Bet you all feel better, right?

 

I don't get it. Why would someone worried in July that the team would fade be happy when his worries come true? You know, this optimist/pessimist forum war is really getting old.

 

SFF

[fathom]

He DID get a bat.  He completed a deal for Griffey (who was at the time healthy), remember?  Reds ownership nixed it after the fact but KW did his part.  He made the trade; he aquired the bat.

 

SFF

 

No offense to you, but if I hear that excuse actually come from Sox management after the season, I might join Ozzie in throwing up. There's no bonus points for coming close to making a deal.

[SpringfieldFan]

No offense to you, but if I hear that excuse actually come from Sox management after the season, I might join Ozzie in throwing up.  There's no bonus points for coming close to making a deal.

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but he didn't "come close" - he made the deal, didn't he? I do agree, though, that management has to take responsibility for the result, not the actions. I am just speaking from my perspective as a fan.

 

SFF

[SpringfieldFan]

sorry, got a web error & duplicate post

Edited September 23, 2005 by SpringfieldFan

[Dick Allen]

Correct me if I am wrong, but he didn't "come close" - he made the deal, didn't he?  I do agree, though, that management has to take responsibility for the result, not the actions.  I am just speaking from my perspective as a fan.

 

SFF

Its no deal until its finalized. So you have to say he came close. The same circumstance happened to KW 3 years ago when he agreed to trade Garland for Erstad. The Angels ownership didn't approve so there was no deal.