KW did what he said he was going to do

[SoxFanForever]

Correct me if I am wrong, but he didn't "come close" - he made the deal, didn't he?  I do agree, though, that management has to take responsibility for the result, not the actions.  I am just speaking from my perspective as a fan.

 

SFF

We don't have Griffey on our roster, do we? No. Then he didn't make any deal.

[SpringfieldFan]

We don't have Griffey on our roster, do we?  No.  Then he didn't make any deal.

 

OK, I will agree with that. Concluding that he shares blame for KGJ not being on the roster now, what could he have done differently? He and the Reds GM "left the table" with a deal agreed to. Should he have dealt directly with the Reds primary owner rather then their GM? Is that how it is usually done? *pleading ignorance here*

 

SFF

[Balta1701]

We don't have Griffey on our roster, do we?  No.  Then he didn't make any deal.

Considering Griffey hasn't played basically at all in September and is officially out for the season and having 2 more surgeries...I really don't see this as a huge negative.

[fathom]

Considering Griffey hasn't played basically at all in September and is officially out for the season and having 2 more surgeries...I really don't see this as a huge negative.

 

I thought that if Griffey Jr. really wanted to play right now, he could. The Reds basically shut him down as a cautionary measure.

[Balta1701]

I thought that if Griffey Jr. really wanted to play right now, he could.  The Reds basically shut him down as a cautionary measure.

He's having season ending surgery now on both his hamstring and I believe on his ankle. I bumped that thread yesterday...give me a second and i'll edit this with the link.

 

The link.

 

 

Ken Griffey Jr. is finishing another season prematurely because of injury. This time, it's an upbeat ending.

 

The Cincinnati Reds center fielder decided Thursday to give up his attempt to overcome a foot sprain and play again this season. Instead, he'll have a minor knee operation that has been anticipated for weeks, giving him a head-start on rehabilitation.

 

"I think overall in the situation we're in, it's probably the smartest thing to do," Griffey said, a day after the Reds were officially eliminated from playoff contention. "If it were the playoffs and we had a chance, then we'd be doing something different. But we're not, and it's time that I can get my hamstring closed up for good and my knee fixed."

 

He'll have surgery on Monday to clean out a knee that has bothered him occasionally over the last three years. Doctors will also treat the troublesome incision from his hamstring surgery a year ago.

 

The 35-year-old Griffey tore the hamstring loose last August and had it reattached to the bone with three titanium screws, a rare operation that required months of difficult rehabilitation. Part of the incision never fully healed.

Edited September 23, 2005 by Balta1701

[Bias]

All I know is regardless if the Sox win the division, make the playoffs, win a series, go to and or win the World Series Jerk Reindsdork and KW best bring in better players! JR has said for years if we come to the park, they'll have the $$$ to spend. Well, we came this year and if they don't bring in quality players.....not the 2-3 years passed their prime Carl Everett, Jermaind Dye types.... but top of the line free agents I will not attend any games next year.

 

I want a bonafide run producer and I want a bonafide closer!

[fathom]

No way this team spends money on a closer with Jenks on the roster.

[Balta1701]

No way this team spends money on a closer with Jenks on the roster.

Oh come on, just think of the 9th inning we could have bringing out both Jenks and Wagner!

[Flash Tizzle]

How is it the GM's fault the players peed themselves..? Ozzie asked for, and got, what he wanted from the GM and owners and it worked for 3 months. It's now the GM's fault Ozzie mismanaged (according to many) and the players suck (according to many)?

I'm going.. and I'll be in the Q&A.. but if we don't make the playoffs, or get swept  from them.. it's not Kenny I'll be yelling at in January.

 

If you're suggesting the players "peed themselves," then it becomes the responsibility of the general manager to correct noticeable faults with his club. Is it not? Foremost, Williams must remove the bed wetting choke artists from this team.

 

Guillen may have been instrumental in constructing this "smartlball" team, but it's obvious the only legitimate points of the philosophy are pitching/defense. It's now Williams duty to ignore Guillen and upgrade this team's offense. But you know what's great about our situation now? We're probably going to have to trade several arms, possibly Contreras, hopefully Marte (with diminished value and all), for another bat. Prospects will be delt, we'll likely be swindled, and knowing our luck, the pitching will be mediocre and the offense will rebound. Then in 2007 we'll be looking for pitching--which is true with several contracts coming to an end.

 

Our minor league system better start turning talent over fairly quickly. I EXPECT one contributing player a year. Our payroll isn't high enough to just ignore a farm system.

Edited September 23, 2005 by Flash Tizzle

[Wealz]

All I know is regardless if the Sox win the division, make the playoffs, win a series, go to and or win the World Series Jerk Reindsdork and KW best bring in better players!  JR has said for years if we come to the park, they'll have the $$$ to spend. Well, we came this year and if they don't bring in quality players.....not the 2-3 years passed their prime Carl Everett, Jermaind Dye types.... but top of the line free agents I will not attend any games next year.

 

I want a bonafide run producer and I want a bonafide closer!

 

Problem is it's said to be one of the worst free-agent classes of the last 10 years.

[Wealz]

How is it the GM's fault the players peed themselves..? Ozzie asked for, and got, what he wanted from the GM and owners and it worked for 3 months. It's now the GM's fault Ozzie mismanaged (according to many) and the players suck (according to many)?

I'm going.. and I'll be in the Q&A.. but if we don't make the playoffs, or get swept  from them.. it's not Kenny I'll be yelling at in January.

 

It's not the job of a GM to get the manager the players the manager wants.

[Steff]

It's not the job of a GM to get the manager the players the manager wants.

 

 

Yea it is, and that's how this team was built.

[Steff]

If you're suggesting the players "peed themselves," then it becomes the responsibility of the general manager to correct noticeable faults with his club. Is it not? Foremost, Williams must remove the bed wetting choke artists from this team.

 

Guillen may have been instrumental in constructing this "smartlball" team, but it's obvious the only legitimate points of the philosophy are pitching/defense. It's now Williams duty to ignore Guillen and upgrade this team's offense. But you know what's great about our situation now? We're probably going to have to trade several arms, possibly Contreras, hopefully Marte (with diminished value and all), for another bat. Prospects will be delt, we'll likely be swindled, and knowing our luck, the pitching will be mediocre and the offense will rebound. Then in 2007 we'll be looking for pitching--which is true with several contracts coming to an end.

 

Our minor league system better start turning talent over fairly quickly. I EXPECT one contributing player a year. Our payroll isn't high enough to just ignore a farm system.

 

 

Flash, I agree with you on all counts except KW's responsibility. Ozzie needs to be held (more) accountable for not passing along the info about the diaper wearing cads.. and I don't think he did. I honestly think he never thought Cleveland would catch them, all the while knowing big issues were arising in his clubhouse and did nothing to stop them.

[Wealz]

Yea it is, and that's how this team was built.

 

Why isn't Ozzie the GM/Manager then?

 

Williams job is to populate the roster with the 25 best players he can find. Ultimately, Timo Perez is a part of this roster because of Kenny Williams.

[Wealz]

Flash, I agree with you on all counts except KW's responsibility. Ozzie needs to be held (more) accountable for not passing along the info about the diaper wearing cads.. and I don't think he did. I honestly think he never thought Cleveland would catch them, all the while knowing big issues were arising in his clubhouse and did nothing to stop them.

 

I don't think this collapse is a matter of nerves. They just aren't good enough to hold a 15.5 game lead on Cleveland.

[Steff]

..... golf clap .....

[Dick Allen]

I don't think this collapse is a matter of nerves.  They just aren't good enough to hold a 15.5 game lead on Cleveland.

I disagree. They are falling apart at the seams. They lost 2 out of 3 to KC one of the worst teams ever. They lost a very winnable game last night. They are feeling the pressure no doubt about it. Hopefully, Minnesota sans Santana and Detroit are just what the doctor ordered.

[fathom]

I don't think this collapse is a matter of nerves.  They just aren't good enough to hold a 15.5 game lead on Cleveland.

 

Our hitters have seemingly lost all focus at the plate with RISP. Most people will probably blame that on nerves.

[fathom]

I don't think this collapse is a matter of nerves.  They just aren't good enough to hold a 15.5 game lead on Cleveland.

 

I don't care how good or bad you're supposed to be, but you should be able to maintain that type of lead with 2 months left.

[Wealz]

I don't care how good or bad you're supposed to be, but you should be able to maintain that type of lead with 2 months left.

 

What were the games they choked away? The last two probably are the best ones to point to, the Wednesday game against KC probably. All of those came after the Indians cut into their lead by 11 games or so.

[Wealz]

I disagree. They are falling apart at the seams. They lost 2 out of 3 to KC one of the worst teams ever. They lost a very winnable game last night. They are feeling the pressure no doubt about it. Hopefully, Minnesota sans Santana and Detroit are just what the doctor ordered.

 

The problem isn't blowing a 4 game lead. It was turning a 15.5 game lead into 4 that did them in.

[fathom]

What were the games they choked away?  The last two probably are the best ones to point to, the Wednesday game against KC probably.  All of those came after the Indians cut into their lead by 11 games or so.

 

They've blown a lot of games in the last 5 or 6 weeks that they should have won.

 

- the extra inning debacle where Hermanson gave a meatball to Cuddyer

- blowing two different games to the Royals where they had a 5 run lead after 5 innings.

- last night's game vs Twins with bases loaded and one out in the 9th

- 2 run lead in the 6th vs KC, and Garcia decides to throw hanging sliders to 5 straight hitters (while we were going for 8 straight wins).

- 4 outs away on Monday from beating the Indians.

- the Angels extra inning game

- Buehrle's 2 blown leads against the Red Sox

 

....and much, much more

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

That's pretty interesting. I also wouldn't think 4.80 to 4.333 would cost us that many games in terms of our record. That's an average of us scoring about one less run every two games.

 

I think back to the smartball thing and that's certainly valid. With Podsednik hamstrung, we are no longer scoring early nor often. That and I feel like our starting pitching is gassed and our bullpen is not up to the task. Besides games against Oakland, how many times did we get blown out in the 1st half of the season?

 

Look at it this way we're scoring almost 1/2 a run less post all star break. Imagine we had increased that same 1/2 run. It's a huge difference especially when you play as many close games as we do. The difference between pre and post all star game Sox is that we can't get that extra run we need to win the close games anymore. Some blame the pitching but we won because the pitching was dominant in the first half. Now that it's come back down to earth people blame the collapse on that. It's unrealistic to expect the staff to be dominant all year especially with no history of being dominant from guys like Garland and Hermanson.

 

But basically it's a teamwide collapse. Pitching , hitting, fielding , baserunning all worse. Everything Ozzie does now backfires in his face. The hitting has pretty much sucked all year. Now that we can't manufacture runs or get the clutch hit anymore we're spiraling down like we're caught in a whirlpool.

[fathom]

The problem isn't blowing a 4 game lead.  It was turning a 15.5 game lead into 4 that did them in.

 

Well, maybe if there was any sense of urgency 2 months ago, it would have never got to this point. I know a lot of us used the phrase "taking their foot off of the accelerator". This Sox team isn't good enough to just have no focus and win games. The offensive fire power isn't strong enough.

[Steff]

Well, maybe if there was any sense of urgency 2 months ago, it would have never got to this point.  I know a lot of us used the phrase "taking their foot off of the accelerator".  This Sox team isn't good enough to just have no focus and win games.  The offensive fire power isn't strong enough.

 

 

Ding, ding, ding, ding... we have a winner.