KW did what he said he was going to do

[fathom]

Ding, ding, ding, ding... we have a winner.

 

Let me expand on the point: this is the reason you don't start talking about your playoff rotation in August like Ozzie and Cooper were doing. This is why you don't just play 3 bench players in a game for no reason, basically admitting that you'd rather rest your starters that day instead of winning the games. This is the reason that you don't need to pitch your starters the maximum amount of innings each game, as you're going to need them to have a tank lefty to even empty at the end of the year.

[Colorado Sox Fan]

Well, maybe if there was any sense of urgency 2 months ago, it would have never got to this point.  I know a lot of us used the phrase "taking their foot off of the accelerator".  This Sox team isn't good enough to just have no focus and win games.  The offensive fire power isn't strong enough.

Yes. They got into that "rest up for the playoffs" mode and now they are paying for it.

[Wealz]

Well, maybe if there was any sense of urgency 2 months ago, it would have never got to this point.  I know a lot of us used the phrase "taking their foot off of the accelerator".  This Sox team isn't good enough to just have no focus and win games.  The offensive fire power isn't strong enough.

 

Just isn't good enough is right. That is why Williams is at fault here. No team has ever had its foot on the accelorator for 162 games.

[fathom]

Just isn't good enough is right.  That is why Williams is at fault here.  No team has ever had its foot on the accelorator for 162 games.

 

That's true, but to basically take your foot off with 50 games to go, that's just foolish. Between benching his starters quite often, putting Pods on the DL with absolutely no replacement option, and continuing to use Duque even though he's been a huge disappointment in the 2nd half, I just feel as if Ozzie and KW failed this team, just as the team is failing the fans now.

[Steff]

Just isn't good enough is right.  That is why Williams is at fault here.  No team has ever had its foot on the accelorator for 162 games.

 

 

Ahh yes.. because Kenny makes the lineup and f***s with the pitching staff.

 

 

Rich.. Oprah rich.

[fathom]

Steff....so I take it you're fed up with Ozzie?

[Steff]

Steff....so I take it you're fed up with Ozzie?

 

 

I blame them all... yet I can't stop going or watching. A friend last night told me I would be crazy to write the Sox a check next year if this all ends up in the crapper... I thought about it for a good 45 minutes.. I'll be writing that check.

[Wealz]

Ahh yes.. because Kenny makes the lineup and f***s with the pitching staff.

Rich.. Oprah rich.

 

There isn't a lineup combination you can dream up that will suddenly make Carl Everett and Aaron Rowand productive middle-of-the-order hitters.

[fathom]

I blame them all... yet I can't stop going or watching. A friend last night told me I would be crazy to write the Sox a check next year if this all ends up in the crapper... I thought about it for a good 45 minutes.. I'll be writing that check.

 

Of course, we'll all be back next year. That's why it's laughable to see some of the people free-falling off the bandwagon. Of course, they'll be back tomorrow if the Sox win tonight. If all the fans give up on the team for next season, then we're just asking for another 50 million dollar payroll in 2007. Baseball is basically the one sport where attendance plays a huge role in how good a team can be.

[CWSGuy406]

Of course, we'll all be back next year.  That's why it's laughable to see some of the people free-falling off the bandwagon.  Of course, they'll be back tomorrow if the Sox win tonight.  If all the fans give up on the team for next season, then we're just asking for another 50 million dollar payroll in 2007.  Baseball is basically the one sport where attendance plays a huge role in how good a team can be.

 

Yup. When we beat Cleveland Tuesday, I don't think there was a Sox fan out there who didn't think that Wednesday night was ours, and that we'd ride that Crede homerun through the remaining twelve games to a Central division crown.

 

I believe Vince Gallaro said something along the lines of this: division titles make real nice flags and real nice t-shirts, but in the end, they don't mean a whole lot.

 

I totally agree, and, if I had the choice of whether or not to play on the road or at home, I might just choose the former.

 

Why?

 

This team isn't built for the Cell. This is a team built on pitching and defense, yet playing in one of the top five hitters' parks in all of baseball. I know Aaron Rowand makes a lot of spectacular catches as it is, but his range would be a helluva lot more useful in a place like PetCo than here; same goes for a guy like Freddy Garcia, who's going to give up a lot of flyballs -- that's just sort of who he is (lucky for us he's throwing much more GBs this year than in his career).

 

As far as KW and OG... If we don't make the playoffs this year, won't that be five years under his tenure in which we haven't made the playoffs? With the highest payroll in the division each year? I know that he 'tries', but eventually, we need to see some results.

 

But, we have a three game head-start with ten games to go. We need three teams to pass us in order for us not to make the playoffs. I know the Sox have already fallen a lot, but that's a pretty damn hard feat, especially considering our next seven games...

[Chisoxrd5]

Of course, we'll all be back next year.  That's why it's laughable to see some of the people free-falling off the bandwagon.  Of course, they'll be back tomorrow if the Sox win tonight.  If all the fans give up on the team for next season, then we're just asking for another 50 million dollar payroll in 2007.  Baseball is basically the one sport where attendance plays a huge role in how good a team can be.

 

Thats also why its funny some new posters come on here and call some of us "fair weather fans" and such...We all come back, despite what some of us say. Irrational at times, of course we are...but fair weather? Thats just funny...

[fathom]

Good post CWSGuy. I didn't comment on it at the time (shockingly), but Farmer's comment about getting back off the ledge really ticked me off on Tuesday. It was ONE game Ed!

[Steff]

Thats also why its funny some new posters come on here and call some of us "fair weather fans" and such...We all come back, despite what some of us say. Irrational at times, of course we are...but fair weather? Thats just funny...

 

 

Jim would LOVE it if I were a fairweather... he blames the Sox for not driving around in a new Vette right now... poor thing has to be seen in that nasty '04

[Guest JimH]

Between benching his starters quite often, putting Pods on the DL with absolutely no replacement option, and continuing to use Duque even though he's been a huge disappointment in the 2nd half, I just feel as if Ozzie and KW failed this team, just as the team is failing the fans now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You have, once again, made so many blanket statements in this thread, painted them as fact and therefore in your mind they must be.

 

Are you in the clubhouse, do you know which guys are hurt on a given day and can't play?

 

Podsednik was hurt (and still is), so why wouldn't they have put him on the DL?

 

Where on earth do you get the notion that because you play 3 bench players, it means he doesn't care about winning the game? Are you suggesting he purposely plays bench players just so he can lose?

 

Wouldn't the better solution be to get more depth/better players? Who else is he supposed to play, players on other teams?

 

Get over it. The manager plays his 25 players, we'll see how this all turns out. If it's bad it's because the players didn't perform. Is it Guillen's fault that Jermaine Dye couldn't hit a fly ball and then Uribe couldn't get a big base hit, thereby keeping the lead at 2 1/2 instead of 1 1/2 ?

 

I realize he's your personal whipping boy, Lord knows that's been well established by you on this website, oh, maybe 2000 times or so.

 

It's fair to say the board understands your point.

[OilCan]

Guys, has anyone mentioned that the Tribe has played above .750 baseball since the All Star Break, while the Sox has been playing below .500 since the Break?

[fathom]

You have, once again, made so many blanket statements in this thread, painted them as fact and therefore in your mind they must be.

 

Where on earth do you get the notion that because you play 3 bench players, it means he doesn't care about winning the game?  Are you suggesting he purposely plays bench players just so he can lose?

t get a big base hit, thereby keeping the lead at 2 1/2 instead of 1 1/2 ?

 

I realize he's your personal whipping boy, Lord knows that's been well established by you on this website, oh, maybe 2000 times or so.

 

It's fair to say the board understands your point.

 

I thought you were supposed to just ignore my posts? The funny thing is that you've been saying how wrong I was about Ozzie all year, and now that others are beginning to see the light on his inadequacies as a manager, you're still getting mad at me. And I don't see many other teams resting 3 starters in the same game about 15 times during the season. Subbing a player into the lineup every game is fine...it's good to get guys rest. But why do it all at the same time?

[Balta1701]

And I don't see many other teams resting 3 starters in the same game about 15 times during the season.  Subbing a player into the lineup every game is fine...it's good to get guys rest.  But why do it all at the same time?

Actually, I wonder if anyone has really sat down and fully did the math on this strategy - even Billy Beane.

 

Think of it this way...if I can make my highest probability of a win occur when I play all 9 starters, any substitution would create something of a decrease in that probability of a win.

 

If I then substitute a 2nd player, I would again see a decrease in the probability of a win. But let's say for a moment that the effect of the first substitution is slightly greater than that of the 2nd substitution. In that case, it would actually be beneficial for your team to rest everyone on exactly the same day if players were going to be rested, on the grounds that once you take 1 person out of the lineup, each successive substitution might decrease the probability of a win less.

 

In addition, it would probably depend on exactly which player you took out, and how big the difference was between the players. For example, taking out Konerko and replacing him with Timo would have a bigger effect than taking out Crede and replacing him with Ozuna. But if by resting Konerko, I've already conceded the increased chance that I'm going to lose, it would make more sense to rest multiple people that day and sacrifice the win that day in exchange for an increased probability of a win on other days.

 

Billy Beane, hire me.

[Guest JimH]

I thought you were supposed to just ignore my posts?  The funny thing is that you've been saying how wrong I was about Ozzie all year, and now that others are beginning to see the light on his inadequacies as a manager, you're still getting mad at me.  And I don't see many other teams resting 3 starters in the same game about 15 times during the season.  Subbing a player into the lineup every game is fine...it's good to get guys rest.  But why do it all at the same time?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Who said I was ignoring your posts? You said you weren't going to post in the game threads, what happened there? Do you forget what you say?

 

I'm not mad at you, simply pointing out how ludicrous your blaming everything on Guillen is.

 

Just because you have a little fan club here at Sox Talk doesn't make you right.

 

You'd be surprised how many teams over the years put their bench players in all the time during the year. Go look up the 1969 Cubs, find out what the players said about how the team was managed, then get back to me ok?

 

Just so you know ... it's the players who make the difference between winning and losing.

[fathom]

Who said I was ignoring your posts?  You said you weren't going to post in the game threads, what happened there?  Do you forget what you say?

 

I'm not mad at you, simply pointing out how ludicrous your blaming everything on Guillen is.

 

Just because you have a little fan club here at Sox Talk doesn't make you right.

 

 

Just so you know ... it's the players who make the difference between winning and losing.

 

[Rex Kickass]

Well, maybe if there was any sense of urgency 2 months ago, it would have never got to this point.  I know a lot of us used the phrase "taking their foot off of the accelerator".  This Sox team isn't good enough to just have no focus and win games.  The offensive fire power isn't strong enough.

 

I love Ozzie. He makes me laugh. But he's not a good manager. A good metaphor for this season would be the first game he ever managed in the bigs. Also against Kansas City. We played eight great innings. And then in the ninth, we lost focus. And we lost the game.

 

He did it in his first game. And he did it this whole season. And if he can't learn in two years, he shouldn't keep his job.

Edited September 24, 2005 by winodj