11 Priests Removed

[JUGGERNAUT]

Actually the church NOT reporting crimes against children to the proper authorities IS a crime. As is aiding and abetting a felony by sending them somewhere else to avoid potentially facing a procecution/investigation.  But then again why let facts start getting in the way now :rolly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

:rolly Once again they are NOT crimes. That is your opinion & clearly it's biased as you do not have enough information on these allegations to form an impartial one. For there to be a crime there must be a police report filed & an arrest. A victim &/or witness to the crime has to come forward in a timely manner for such a report to be filed. Then the police decide whether there is sufficient evidence warranting an arrest. If a victim or witness takes years to come forward it may be to late (statute of limitation).

 

In any case the Church has an obligation to work with authorities on the same level that the baby-killing PP does. No more, no less.

[southsider2k5]

:rolly Once again they are NOT crimes.  That is your opinion & clearly it's biased as you do not have enough information on these allegations to form an impartial one.  For there to be a crime there must be a police report filed & an arrest.  A victim &/or witness to the crime has to come forward in a timely manner for such a report to be filed.  Then the police decide whether there is sufficient evidence warranting an arrest.  If a victim or witness takes years to come forward it may be to late (statute of limitation). 

 

In any case the Church has an obligation to work with authorities on the same level that the baby-killing PP does.  No more, no less.

 

You have no clue what you are talking about. Ask a teacher or doctor what their obligations are if they suspect abuse of a child. Then come back here and admit you were wrong.

[Kyyle23]

You have no clue what you are talking about.  Ask a teacher or doctor what their obligations are if they suspect abuse of a child.  Then come back here and admit you were wrong.

 

Ha. Juggs doesnt admit anything except his undying love for the Church and numbers. Im disgusted that he can sit back and call them "allegations" and act like because it wasnt reported as a crime, then it isnt a crime. But i am not surprised.

[kapkomet]

:rolly Once again they are NOT crimes.  That is your opinion & clearly it's biased as you do not have enough information on these allegations to form an impartial one.  For there to be a crime there must be a police report filed & an arrest.  A victim &/or witness to the crime has to come forward in a timely manner for such a report to be filed.  Then the police decide whether there is sufficient evidence warranting an arrest.  If a victim or witness takes years to come forward it may be to late (statute of limitation). 

 

In any case the Church has an obligation to work with authorities on the same level that the baby-killing PP does.  No more, no less.

Wow. Absolutely DELUSIONAL.

 

How about some puke off the street comes and rapes your wife. And then, before the guy leaves, he says, you report this, you're dead, and he leaves.

 

So, she's scared, and you can't help her through it, and it goes unreported.

 

Guess what? She was violated. It IS a crime. You are condoning something because it's not reported? I made this personal so you can see what you're saying.

 

Seriously, do you believe the s*** you type? If you cannot see that you are wrong on this, lord help you.

[Mercy!]

Juggs, why are you diddling over a word, “crime,” that wasn’t even in the newspaper article? Unless you’re just trolling for your usual response out of folks. You say, UNFOUNDED allegations? I guess along with a stupefying deficit of facts and logic, you have trouble reading, as well.

 

Just fyi, I think you sound less silly when you cover your ears and shout, “I can’t hear you” as a tactical move versus when you try the old change-the-subject gimmick (baby killers! baby killers!).

[kapkomet]

Juggs, why are you diddling over a word, “crime,” that wasn’t even in the newspaper article?  Unless you’re just trolling for your usual response out of folks.  You say, UNFOUNDED allegations?  I guess along with a stupefying deficit of facts and logic, you have trouble reading, as well.

 

Just fyi, I think you sound less silly when you cover your ears and shout, “I can’t hear you” as a tactical move versus when you try the old change-the-subject gimmick (baby killers! baby killers!).

Dude, either you've been here as another name, or you catch on fast.

[Mercy!]

Dude, either you've been here as another name, or you catch on fast. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nah, this is my first time and my only name.

And I can only be an honorary dude, I believe. I'm of the female persuasion.

[Rex Kickass]

Hey, can you guys say something that I can turn funny? Cause your turning the focus of this thread away from my awesomeness.

[Soxy]

Hey, can you guys say something that I can turn funny? Cause your turning the focus of this thread away from my awesomeness.

Oooooh, snap. . .

 

Although, Juggs always gives me a good chuckle (hmmmm, I do I mean throws me into a blinding rage). . .

[Soxy]

Nah, this is my first time and my only name.

And I can only be an honorary dude, I believe.  I'm of the female persuasion.

Well, that explains your awesomeness. . .

[southsideirish71]

:rolly Once again they are NOT crimes.  That is your opinion & clearly it's biased as you do not have enough information on these allegations to form an impartial one.  For there to be a crime there must be a police report filed & an arrest.  A victim &/or witness to the crime has to come forward in a timely manner for such a report to be filed.  Then the police decide whether there is sufficient evidence warranting an arrest.  If a victim or witness takes years to come forward it may be to late (statute of limitation). 

 

In any case the Church has an obligation to work with authorities on the same level that the baby-killing PP does.  No more, no less.

 

 

I am a conservative and a catholic. However your assesment of this issue is not on point. The arrest is a reaction to the outcry of a crime. But the crime was committed. In Illinois a crime is commited when either "Actus Reus"(guilty act) or "Mens Rea"(guilty mind) happens. If a person is murdered and their isnt enough evidence to convict a person has a crime not happened? No of course not. Plus as a person who had worked in law enforcement for 7 years I can tell you that sexual assault especially molestation is one of the fewest reported crimes. People feel guilt, self hate, anger, embarassment and fear of coming forward. A lot of victims of sexual assault dont come forward. Male victims of sexual assault rarely come forward because of shame. There is a stigma to male sexual assault victims, especially in same sex assaults. My brother is a detective, and has worked on one of these cases. He was disgusted when trying to get evidence and cooperation from the church. The majority of priests are role models, they are men of god who wouldnt harm a fly and are champions of peace. But there are a few bad apples, and the church must stop ignoring this, root it out and eraticate it.

 

Hopefully these priests who harm children realize that they will get away with it here because of resistance, but eventually they will stand in judgement. And there is no hiding from that.

[Soxy]

I am a conservative and a catholic. However your assesment of this issue is not on point.  The arrest is a reaction to the outcry of a crime.  But the crime was committed.  In Illinois a crime is commited when either "Actus Reus"(guilty act) or "Mens Rea"(guilty mind) happens.  If a person is murdered and their isnt enough evidence to convict a person has a crime not happened?  No of course not.  Plus as a person who had worked in law enforcement for 7 years I can tell you that sexual assault especially molestation is one of the fewest reported crimes.  People feel guilt, self hate, anger, embarassment and fear of coming forward.  A lot of victims of sexual assault dont come forward. Male victims of sexual assault rarely come forward because of shame.  There is a stigma to male sexual assault victims, especially in same sex assaults.  My brother is a detective, and has worked on one of these cases.  He was disgusted when trying to get evidence and cooperation from the church.  The majority of priests are role models, they are men of god who wouldnt harm a fly and are champions of peace.  But there are a few bad apples, and the church must stop ignoring this, root it out and eraticate it. 

 

Hopefully these priests who harm children realize that they will get away with it here because of resistance, but eventually they will stand in judgement.  And there is no hiding from that.

 

God, I love it when I hear men say that. . .

 

You do survivors of sexual assault a HUGE service for speaking up on that.

[southsideirish71]

God, I love it when I hear men say that. . .

 

 

You do survivors of sexual assault a HUGE service for speaking up on that.

 

 

I paid for my college working in law enforcement. I saw the best in humanity, and of course I saw the worst in humanity. Crimes against children are unforgiveable.

[kapkomet]

Nah, this is my first time and my only name.

And I can only be an honorary dude, I believe.  I'm of the female persuasion.

Oh, sorry, dudette, er something.

[southsider2k5]

God, I love it when I hear men say that. . .

 

 

You do survivors of sexual assault a HUGE service for speaking up on that.

 

I agree, great post SS71.

[JUGGERNAUT]

QUOTE: ... nor was information immediately available if any had been charged criminally.

 

res ipsa loquitur -

1) The quote does not include "minors". That is mentioned ONLY by the staff reporter.

2) Out of the 14 cases, 1 is dead, & only 2 are pending canonical trials.

3) Wrt to the remaining 11, Each individual no longer can participate in public ministry, present himself as a priest.

 

There in nothing in the link that suggests they can continue to function as a priest in another archdiocese. That is something you conjured up. :rolly

 

The sexual misconduct could be referring to relations with other priests or nuns. Only the staff reporter mentioned "minors". More information is required to conclude it was in reference to minors. Is it a crime for sexual misconduct to occur between adults? Depends on the circumstances.

 

Innocent until proven guilty. That's what America stands for. You should try to remember that.

[kapkomet]

Innocent until proven guilty. That's what America stands for. You should try to remember that.

I agree with that, but I also don't think you just haul tail and run from the issue because there doesn't appear to be evidence. You need to investigate these claims, not bury your head in the sand and scream LA LA LA, nothing here!

[JUGGERNAUT]

I agree with that, but I also don't think you just haul tail and run from the issue because there doesn't appear to  be evidence.  You need to investigate these claims, not bury your head in the sand and scream LA LA LA, nothing here!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The article suggests anything but that. It emphasizes a "zero tolerance" policy in place with the Church. It doesn't' condemn the Cardinal (as some of you have). Instead it highlights what has changed over the past few years under the new stricter policy.

 

What I find disturbing in some of the comments is this mental delusion that somehow a conspiracy exists between the authorities & the Church to shuffle these priests around & to hide the evidence. In light of recent scandals that have crippled the archdiocese of Boston & led to the closing of many parishes affecting 10's of 1000's of Catholics in America I can't imagine how any one with a strong sense of logic could conclude that a conspiracy is more plausible than a closer working relationship :rolly

 

I believe that if there is just cause to proceed with criminal charges against some of these priests the Church will be most helpful in working with the authorities. If there is not just cause then there is no reason for the Church to publicly malign these now ex-priests. Furthermore, if the authorities feel these ex-priests should be registered as sex-offenders I am sure the Church will offer whatever help it can in that effort.

 

I will go one step further on your "sex crimes against children are unforgiveable". I believe any inproper action of a sexual nature whether it be serious or in jest is unforgiveable. I adamantly oppose USSC Ginsberg's belief that the age of consent should be lowered to 12. In my opinion it should be raised to 21. As a society we were wrong with a min drinking age of 18. That's why we raised it to 21. The data proved that young adults could not drink responsibly at 18. So why should we asusme they can engage in sex responsibly at 18? We shouldn't. That's why it should be raised to 21 & any improper action prior to that age should not be tolerated.

Edited September 30, 2005 by JUGGERNAUT