The Official "Fire Ozzie" Thread

[qwerty]

Jack mckeon.

Bobby cox.

Ken macha.

Lou pinella.

 

Who knows if mckeon is gonna retire or now.

 

Cox will resign.

 

So that would leave us down to pinella and macha, but neither are an option becaus the sox felt the need to give ozzie an extension when he proved jack s***.

[JoshPR]

Oz isn't getting the job done but few managers available for hire out there would with this lineup. This guy in my avatar will be available next year but I doubt he'd come here anyways.

 

 

That's what happens when a team is CHEAP

[qwerty]

I really think Ozzie's gonna jump ship to Florida this off-season, when they fire McKeon (which is pretty much a lock to happen now).

 

Hard to fire a free agent.

[GoodAsGould]

These pitchers would have had a lot better numbers for their starts if Ozzie would have just refrained from letting them start that one extra inning, etc.  These guys have all thrown a ton of pitches this season, and most of them have been "stressful" pitches due to all the close games.  And NO ONE forced Ozzie to make those guys his permanent bench players.  Why has he chosen Timo over Gload?  Why has he chosen Marte over Cotts for late game situations?  Why did he choose Duque over McCarthy for about 3 starts too long?

 

 

You are so full of crap all the time.... Yes they pitched a lot but Buehrle pitched like 14 more innings last year and never had the late season meltdown and has always been a workhorse. Jon Garland is at 214 IP and he had 217 last year and while he was never as good he never started playing more s***ty the 2nd half because of all his innings. Freddy Garcia is just above the norm of what he usually pitches in terms of innings but he has done more in the past than he did this year. Than Jose Contreras is having his best season yet so thats not an issue.

 

As for Gload its been said a thousand times that he wasnt healthy enough to play the OF and it wasnt worth a roster spot to have for a backup 1B especially when Konerko doesnt miss many games.

 

Marte is the veteran and this is Cotts first good season so he is going with the past. Im sure after Cotts great season this year Ozzie will be much more comfortable going with him in late game situations. Its funny because at the begining of the season people were b****ing when Ozzie put Cotts in close games.

 

El Duque started the season and is a proven veteran and his main purpose was to help us in sept. to make the playoffs and than be the proven playoff pitcher. So Ozzie tried sticking with him as long as he could until he was sure it was a lost cause. Most managers will stick with their veterans as long as they can until they are 100% sure he isnt going to cut it.

[Milkman delivers]

You are so full of crap all the time.... Yes they pitched a lot but Buehrle pitched like 14 more innings last year and never had the late season meltdown and has always been a workhorse.  Jon Garland is at 214 IP and he had 217 last year and while he was never as good he never started playing more s***ty the 2nd half because of all his innings.  Freddy Garcia is just above the norm of what he usually pitches in terms of innings but he has done more in the past than he did this year. Than Jose Contreras is having his best season yet so thats not an issue.

 

As for Gload its been said a thousand times that he wasnt healthy enough to play the OF and it wasnt worth a roster spot to have for a backup 1B especially when Konerko doesnt miss many games.

 

Marte is the veteran and this is Cotts first good season so he is going with the past.  Im sure after Cotts great season this year Ozzie will be much more comfortable going with him in late game situations.  Its funny because at the begining of the season people were b****ing when Ozzie put Cotts in close games.

 

El Duque started the season and is a proven veteran and his main purpose was to help us in sept. to make the playoffs and than be the proven playoff pitcher.  So Ozzie tried sticking with him as long as he could until he was sure it was a lost cause.  Most managers will stick with their veterans as long as they can until they are 100% sure he isnt going to cut it.

 

Not unless he changes his name to Neal Martinez.

[Guest JimH]

Here's what I fault Ozzie for.

 

1.  El Duque instead of McCarthy.  El Duque went 1-8 in the second half.  McCarthy won two huge games, should have beaten Santana, and could have won tonight with anything from the hitters.  He certainly should have stuck with McCarthy after back to back shut outs of Texas and Boston, yet he still lost another 2 games with the Duke.  That's 2 games that would put us in the playoffs as of today.

 

2.  Ross Gload.  I can't figure out why this guy didn't get ABs in August when we started scuffling.  In AAA, Gload was on fire.  45 for 107, with 7 HRs, 14 doubles, 24 runs, 24 RBI.  Instead, we got a month of Timo Perez, who hit absolutely nothing.  And Gload isn't just a AAA ballplayer.  He had the Sox' best batting average last year for guys with more than 200 ABs. 

 

3.  Forgetting what got us here.  In the beginning of the year, Ozzie used the whole team.  In the last month, he refuses to use fresh blood to rest tired and tight hitters.  When was the last time Rowand got a night off?  We have a team full of guys who go into major funks, but Ozzie just keeps writing their name in the lineup card hoping they'll pull out of it.  Eventually they do, but we lose game after game waiting for them to do so. 

 

4.  Poor game management.  Tonight he finally used pinch hitters and they helped load the bases with one out in a 2-run game.  But then he used Blum, one of our worst hitters, to pinch hit, and he grounds meekly into a DP.  Why not Gload?  Or even Timo Perez?  Ozzie also left Rowand to hit for himself in the 9th even though he'd meekly grounded out 4 times, and did it a 5th time in the 9th.  A pinch hitter was called for.  There are many, many other examples. 

 

5.  Bizarre bullpen management.  Why is Damaso Marte often used in more critical situations than Neil Cotts?  Marte is a walk machine.  Cotts is typically lights out. Ozzie has done a decent job here, but some of his mistakes have cost us. 

 

Thank goodness our rivals all lost tonight because our team isn't playing with any urgency right now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It wouldn't be a "Guillen Sucks" thread without mention of the great Ross Gload now would it?

[Guest JimH]

Not unless he changes his name to Neal Martinez.

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Wow, implying he plays favorites based on country of origin?

[Guest JimH]

To add to the theory that KW and Ozzie don't get along now:

 

In the paper tomorrow, Ozzie has given the ok to have the champagne celebration if the Sox clinch a Wild Card spot.  However, KW basically said he wouldn't celebrate that, and still wants the AL Central.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think you're reading way too much into it.

[Dick Allen]

Wow, implying he plays favorites based on country of origin?

I know it seems silly, but this actually has been discussed on sports radio. There are several people who believe Ozzie treats Latin players differently. I think Ozzie's a goof, but I don't see that. I just see a guy who has no confidence in Neal Cotts vs. right handed batters for some reason.

[greasywheels121]

Hard to fire a free agent.

 

The Marlins basically did it to Burnett.

[EvilMonkey]

Maybe we should change this to a fire Harold Baines thread. What the hell is a bench coach for if not to tell the manager when he has left his brain in the clubhouse, or to remind him that Marte sucks with runners on base? How about hiring a bench coach with some managerial experience, so Oz can stop listening to his gut all the time and managing like a ROOKIE. Sometimes it works, sometimes not, but he needs someone who has done it to bounce ideas off of once in a while.

[Guest JimH]

I know it seems silly, but this actually has been discussed on sports radio. There are several  people who believe Ozzie treats Latin players differently. I think Ozzie's a goof, but I don't see that. I just see a guy who has no confidence in Neal Cotts vs. right handed batters for some reason.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

DA, you're right, it does seem silly. Hearing it on sports radio would only confirm it's silly. Sport radio loves to pull things out of its ass, and this notion is one of those things.

[fathom]

I think you're reading way too much into it.

 

I agree that's likely very true. I just found it interesting that in two different articles I read, it seemed like the manager and general manager had different goals.

 

And as for the favoritism by Ozzie for certain players....I think that's something that's just better off not being discussed.

[RockRaines]

As you know, I have been in this school of thought for a while now.  Oz isn't getting the job done.

You guys are incredible morons. The fact that he took this team, who everyone agreed wasnt going to win the division. And put them in the position to win 96 or more games, is amazing. He was up for manager of the year honors until our bats fell asleep. This team has great pitching and below avg hitting. We are ranked last or near last in almost every hitting category, yet ozzie found a way to make these guys play. He has totally turned this org in a new direction and ITS WORKING. Im ashamed of all of you.

[fathom]

Maybe we should change this to a fire Harold Baines thread.  What the hell is a bench coach for if not to tell the manager when he has left his brain in the clubhouse, or to remind him that Marte sucks with runners on base?  How about hiring a bench coach with some managerial experience, so Oz can stop listening to his gut all the time and managing like a ROOKIE. Sometimes it works, sometimes not, but he needs someone who has done it to bounce ideas off of once in a while.

 

BTW, Walker and Baines talked Ozzie in to letting AJP bat on Monday. Ozzie wanted to have Ozuna bat, but those two guys told them that AJP had had success against Walker in the past.

[RockRaines]

Ozzie's better suited for the NL than the AL.  Smallball is a much better approach in a pitcher's park with no DH.

Maybe we should just try and get our old team back and see how that fares?

[fathom]

It wouldn't be a "Guillen Sucks" thread without mention of the great Ross Gload now would it?

 

I'm the last person to jump on the Gload bandwagon. However, when this team was slumping so bad with the bats, and he was hitting so well in the minors, he should have been brought back. He proved enough last year to warrant the chance to help this offense. However, that's not that big of an issue for me. Gload had 5 games left in a White Sox jersey, and he'll be out of the organization then.

[fathom]

Maybe we should just try and get our old team back and see how that fares?

 

If you had this year's pitching with the previous season's offenses, you'd have a team capable of winning the World Series.

[kapkomet]

Gload hasn't proved much to me *AT THE MAJOR LEAGUE* level. Lights out at AAA doesn't mean crap.

[RockRaines]

If you had this year's pitching with the previous season's offenses, you'd have a team capable of winning the World Series.

And who was the major component of bring in this pitching. And developing Jon Garland instead of yanking him early al la Jerry Manuel. Ozzie did. KW ever said that Ozzie brought up the pitching early last year. It was him headmanning the whole change. getting us a lead off hitter, making the fielding better, and getting us pitching. Now you wish he didnt do that, well welcome to 2004 and 2003 over and over again.

[fathom]

Gload hasn't proved much to me *AT THE MAJOR LEAGUE* level.  Lights out at AAA doesn't mean crap.

 

Again, I'm not one of the Friends of Gload on this site, but he had a pretty damn good year last season with the Sox.

[RockRaines]

Again, I'm not one of the Friends of Gload on this site, but he had a pretty damn good year last season with the Sox.

Frankly, if this argument was about last night, he was the last person I would want in that situation. He is a notorius first ball swinger, and with the bases loaded, you want to at least try and work the count.

[Dick Allen]

You guys are incredible morons.  The fact that he took this team, who everyone agreed wasnt going to win the division.  And put them in the position to win 96 or more games, is amazing.  He was up for manager of the year honors until our bats fell asleep.  This team has great pitching and below avg hitting.  We are ranked last or near last in almost every hitting category, yet ozzie found a way to make these guys play.  He has totally turned this org in a new direction and ITS WORKING.  Im ashamed of all of you.

Ozzie said he had the team he wanted and was going to win the division at Soxfest. That's before they signed Iguchi. I really doubt they would be in the position they are in without him. If you think the reason the team is winning is because of Ozzie's genius, then you must not think much of KW's ability to put together championship-type teams. The fact is even Ozzie's biggest fan, the Hawkeroo, is getting frustrated by a lot of his decisions. Cleveland has been red hot, but the Sox who have lost a ton of very winnable games the last month should have clinched a playoff berth a while ago.

[fathom]

Frankly, if this argument was about last night, he was the last person I would want in that situation. He is a notorius first ball swinger, and with the bases loaded, you want to at least try and work the count.

 

I want a guy to come up and get a hit. Blum was our 5th best option in that situation last night. The guy has never been a very good ph.

[RockRaines]

I want a guy to come up and get a hit.  Blum was our 5th best option in that situation last night.  The guy has never been a very good ph.

Good for your opinion. I trust Ozzie's judgement in that situation. I think there may have been better options. But ozzie knows more about baseball than you do. he has played longer, knows the team better, and goes on that. In fact, if he chose to pinch hit Garland in that situation, he would still know more about baseball than you.