Chisoxfn Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 It Should be Automatic that Manuel is Gone By John Gelsomino May 12, 2003 SoxNet.net The Sox have echoed this story before. We’ve heard the same excuses before. We’ve heard every reason why not to panic about this team’s lackluster start, inept situational and overall hitting, and why Jerry Manuel is not the one to blame. Well, if he isn’t, then who is? Who is responsible for making sure this team is ready to play every day? Who is responsible for lighting a fire under a sagging team? A team playing to an empty ballpark in a Dusty-crazy city? The Manuel era needs to be over. Change, not patience, is the only thing that will prod the team past this most recent downfall. It’s unfair to blame Manuel completely - the players have done little of their own to get this team off on the right foot. Paul Konerko needs to be held accountable as much as anyone; he has probably hit into more double plays then hits this year. Every big situation ends up in a ground ball and a thrown helmet. Hawk Harrelson continually says one day he’ll be amazing - the Sox are still waiting for that day. Other then the month of June last year, what has he done? Ponder that while switching gears to Carlos Lee, who still looks clueless at the plate and even bigger around the waist. I thought this guy was a hitting machine? Frank has been disappointing, but at least he has an on base percentage over .420. Maybe Ordonez and Konerko could walk once in a while instead of popping up and hitting into double plays. Aaron Rowand is finally gone, but is Willie Harris much better? He’s faster, at least … but you can’t steal first base. The pitchers have done their jobs with the exception of the “closer” Billy Koch, who has been atrocious all season. Who does he think he is, screaming at Manuel for taking him out? Didn’t he see the two ropes hit off him that inning that were hard outs? Didn’t he know Eric Chavez was licking his chops to explode on one of his 90 mile an hour fastballs? If this guy’s that ignorant, there’s no wonder why Oakland didn’t want him; they certainly don’t miss him now. So many problems, only a few solutions. Manuel needs to go, whether or not this debacle is completely his fault. You simply can’t fire 25 players. This team shows no fire, no desire; they don’t “come ready to play.” That’s a reflection of the manager. You only have to look a few miles north to see what a change at the top does for a team. Bobby Valentine would do. Maybe Wally Backman. How about Carlton Fisk? Think he would take lip from Koch? It’s surprising that a team that has bailed quickly on good managers before has become so patient with Manuel. Jim Fregosi had little room for error. Jeff Torborg may have been the worst firing in team history. Gene LaMont had two bad months with an awful team in ’95 before he was given his walking papers. Manuel has been here since ’98, and his record is slightly over .500 thanks to an impressive first half of 2000. This coup could be similar to Tony Dungy or Doug Collins getting ousted. They took young teams and built them up, but couldn’t go from point B to point C. If the Sox insist it’s not Manuel, then is it Williams, the one who essentially built this team? I don’t know… I doubt a GM is going to take that blame. Ken Williams needs to make a decision and soon before 2003 ends up resembling the last two seasons. To quote a phrase direct from White Sox lingo – “It’s Time.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 My recollection is that Torborg was not fired - he quit on his own to be near his mother in NY - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 from baseball library October 11, 1991: The Mets hire Jeff Torborg as manager. Torborg resigned as manager of the White Sox to take the position with NY Mets... towards the bottom of the page is that quote - Torborg left us on his own, we never fired him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 just paid a few bucks for this from the Tribune archives - hey, blast the Sox for what they have done, not for what they have not done - which was, they did not fire Torborg! Sox brass stepped aside for Torborg Chicago Tribune (Pre-1997 Fulltext); Chicago, Ill.; Oct 13, 1991; Alan Solomon, Chicago Tribune.; Abstract: The White Sox-Jerry Reinsdorf and Ron Schueler-could have kept Jeff Torborg from leaving Chicago. Torborg said Saturday that after he agreed to terms to become the manager of the Mets last week, he had "a beautiful" conversation with Reinsdorf, the owner of the Sox. "Then I wouldn't have gone anywhere," Torborg said. But he said he wouldn't even have known the Mets were interested if Schueler, the general manager, hadn't told him. Full Text: Copyright Chicago Tribune Co. Oct 13, 1991 The White Sox-Jerry Reinsdorf and Ron Schueler-could have kept Jeff Torborg from leaving Chicago. But it would have kept a man both respected from fulfilling a dream. Torborg said Saturday that after he agreed to terms to become the manager of the Mets last week, he had "a beautiful" conversation with Reinsdorf, the owner of the Sox. "He said he kind of wished he hadn't given permission," Torborg said. And if Reinsdorf hadn't given permission? "Then I wouldn't have gone anywhere," Torborg said. But he said he wouldn't even have known the Mets were interested if Schueler, the general manager, hadn't told him. "I told him, `Schu, I don't want to go anywhere. I'm really happy here,' " Torborg said. "He said, `Just think about it. Tell me tomorrow.'" The next day, Torborg asked whether his situation with the Sox was secure. He said Schueler replied: "We want you to stay." But they agreed Torborg owed it to himself to listen. The rest happened very quickly. Is there a sense you're leaving a job undone? "Yeah," Torborg said. "But this was an opportunity, almost like a dream for me. I worked out with the Mets in '62, out of college, in the Polo Grounds, on two occasions. Rogers Hornsby behind a cage, saying, `You can't hit like this.' He was right. "But I got my first major-league hit at Shea Stadium. Walter Alston brought me to my first All-Star Game as a bullpen catcher there in '64. It occurred to me standing there yesterday. . . . I walked out on that field and thought about those feelings." But what if permission had been refused? What would have happened then? "I don't know how I would've reacted, to be honest," Torborg said. "I wouldn't have had any choice." But the permission came, and the Mets came up with what he wanted-four years, guaranteed. The generally accepted estimate over the term will approach $1.9 million. The decision was easy, but not without thoughts of what he was leaving behind. "Those players mean so much to me, as does the coaching staff," Torborg said. "I'm going to call 'em all. In fact, I was going to start tonight, calling Pudge (Carlton Fisk) and Ozzie (Guillen). The two captains." Now, with his wife, Susie, he's back in suburban New York. "We were riding home last night from the press conference, and it was raining," Torborg said. "It took us two hours to get home. And the two of us looked at each other in the car and went, `What have we gotten ourselves into here?' "Then we said, `But at the end of this trip, we'll be in our own home.' " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 I may be pendantic (I may be? ) but it is in the best interests of Soxnet.net - in my opinion - to efit out that line in Manuel article about Torborg. This place needs to have a sterling reputuation for accuracy - with stats, facts, everything - and it is simply not true that Torborg was fired, as the article states, which is posted on the main page of soxnet.net. Deleting the sentence will not change anything in the article - a a simple re-write to make it accurate would be appreciated - but whether Torborg was fired or not is not opinion, it is a fact that he did not get fired, he resigned on his own. I just am uncomfortable with factual mistakes being posted under the soxnet name, especially when that is cited as the worst firing mistake ever and it never hapened, yet deleting or editing those few words for the sake of accuracy does not change anything at all that the author says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 13, 2003 Author Share Posted May 13, 2003 Vince, I'll tell Mario about it and have him change it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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