The Game 1 Starter is...

[Big Hurtin]

Does anyone have the numbers of Garland this year against the Angels and Yankees?

[santo=dorf]

I would like to see Buehrle and Garcia pitch in Anaheim rather than @ USCF.

 

Anaheim is where Buehrle had that 9 IP, 2 ER ND.

[Felix]

Does anyone have the numbers of Garland this year against the Angels and Yankees?

vs NYY: 0-1 7 IP 2.57 ERA

vs LAA: 0-2 13 IP 6.92 ERA

[IlliniKrush]

Don't shake up rotation

Garland can wait for Game 4, McCarthy can wait for 2006 season

By Phil Rogers

 

Too bad for Jon Garland. Too bad for Brandon McCarthy.

 

They have great talent, had seasons in which they dominated for long stretches and, if they had an opportunity, might do great things in October.

 

But this isn't their time and there's little they can do but accept their spot in the shadows on a team that currently is more dependent on Jose Contreras, Mark Buehrle, Freddy Garcia and—big surprise here—Orlando Hernandez.

 

Garland won 18 games, went to the All-Star Game and might even find his way onto the bottom line of a few Cy Young ballots. But because he lined up in the fourth spot in the rotation, he was left out of the excitement in the division series sweep of the Boston Red Sox—and he should stay as the No. 4 starter in the upcoming championship series.

 

If Ozzie Guillen kept his starting pitchers in order—a fair thing to do because over 162 games there wasn't a lot of difference between the top four—Garland would get the Game 1 start against the Los Angeles Angels or New York Yankees.

 

Under the current circumstances, however, Guillen would be crazy if he entrusted Garland with that role, and the White Sox manager is anything but nuts.

 

If Garland started the American League Championship Series opener Tuesday night at U.S. Cellular Field, he would do it on nine days' rest since beating Cleveland on Oct. 1. Who knows how effective he could be? Because pitching isn't like cutting grass, he could be way out of whack.

 

Guillen has to make him the caboose again in a four-man rotation, even if it means he will have even more rest (13 days) before he gets back on the mound. As a Game 4 starter, he would work only once in a seven-game series. It's easier to trust Contreras, Buehrle and Garcia—even though all would get two extra days' rest—in the slots that could get two starts.

 

Because Garland has been working out on the side, pitching coach Don Cooper wasn't worried that he would be going on six days' rest if there had been a division series Game 4 for him to start in Boston. But the White Sox must be creative to get Garland some at-bats against hitters, arranging live batting practice or a simulated game for him at a workout Sunday or Monday.

 

McCarthy, the 22-year-old who has compiled a 1.79 ERA between Triple-A Charlotte and Chicago since the All-Star break, wasn't needed on the playoff roster in the first round. But he seemed as happy as any of his teammates in the long celebration on the Fenway Park infield Friday night.

 

He was standing by himself, taking it all in. He wore a huge smile as he puffed on a victory cigar.

 

McCarthy will get some consideration for the 11-man pitching staff, possibly as a bullpen replacement for whipping-boy reliever Damaso Marte. This is a really tough call, and, if it's me, I stick with Marte, if only because he gives Guillen one less thing to think about.

 

Hernandez, the star of Game 3, is a starting pitcher moonlighting in the bullpen. He says he isn't worried about doing the job but qualified his answer, adding that "as long as I get enough time to warm up, I'll be fine." McCarthy would be in the same situation.

 

Although McCarthy might be a better matchup than Marte in a certain situation, even against left-handed hitters like Garret Anderson, Darin Erstad, Jason Giambi, Hideki Matsui and Robinson Cano, trouble comes fast in the sixth and seventh innings. Marte, who has done this at this level for four years, is a better option than worrying if McCarthy can get ready quickly.

 

The Hernandez who threw three scoreless innings Friday, getting Marte out of a bases-loaded, no-out mess in the sixth inning, looked little like the guy the Angels bounced around Sept. 11. His fastball was 93 m.p.h. and Boston Globe columnist Dan Shaughnessy described his pitches as "moving like Allen Iverson in traffic."

 

When it was over, after Bobby Jenks had retired Edgar Renteria for the 27th out, the Cuban legend and trainer Herm Schneider embraced for a long time.

 

Hernandez is such a hard worker in terms of conditioning and strength training that he often has to be told to give his body a rest.

 

Hernandez has come to trust Schneider and his assistants, who did a great job to nurture Hernandez through the season. They found the right program, the most effective anti-inflammatory medication, all with the hope of him contributing in October.

 

"We got a lot out of him this year, 10 wins," Schneider said. "I don't know if anybody else could have gotten that out of him."

 

Because McCarthy established himself as a front-runner for the 2006 rotation, Hernandez has seemed like the likely odd man out. But a gutsy organization could hang onto him as the fifth starter and deal Garland, who should have trade value and can be eligible for free agency after '06.

 

There's plenty of time to sort this out. The job at hand is build a staff to get to the World Series. Garland will be part of it but shouldn't be at the front of the rotation.

 

[email protected]

[nitetrain8601]

Rogers is crazy.

[IlliniKrush]

Garland HAS to start game 1, due to the fact that he got 0 work in the ALDS, so I'd love to see the following rotation:

 

1) Garland

2) Buehrle

3) Contreras

4) Garcia

5*) Garland

6*) Buehrle

7*) Contreras

 

* if neccessary

 

This sets things up perfectly, as Buehrle is a better home pitcher, Contreras will dominate anywhere the way he's been pitching, and Garcia is a road ace. This also gives our hottest pitcher the ball in the case that Game 7 is needed to decide the series.

 

And if the series never gets to a game 7? You only throw your ACE one time in the series. That doesn't make any sense. I say play to win this thing as quickly as possible, and don't bank on game 7's. Plan for that and you will lose with bullets still in your gun.

[Kalapse]

And if the series never gets to a game 7? You only throw your ACE one time in the series. That doesn't make any sense. I say play to win this thing as quickly as possible, and don't bank on game 7's. Plan for that and you will lose with bullets still in your gun.

Beautiful analogy.

[greasywheels121]

And if the series never gets to a game 7? You only throw your ACE one time in the series. That doesn't make any sense. I say play to win this thing as quickly as possible, and don't bank on game 7's. Plan for that and you will lose with bullets still in your gun.

 

Exactly why I want to see Count on that bump Tuesday night.

[YASNY]

And if the series never gets to a game 7? You only throw your ACE one time in the series. That doesn't make any sense. I say play to win this thing as quickly as possible, and don't bank on game 7's. Plan for that and you will lose with bullets still in your gun.

 

Lose? What the f*** are you talking about?!?!?!?

[DBAHO]

If Contreras is going to start game 1, I hope Garland has been getting some work and will continue to do so in the next couple of days.

 

It's a really big call to make though. Personally, I'd go with Contreras.

[beck72]

Having Garland go in game 1 makes a lot of sense. What if Contreras went in game 1, the sox lost, and now the pressure's on Garland to win game 2 after not pitching for 2 weeks. garland should pitch at least as well as Freddy or Mark. And that's not bad. In a 7 game series, all four SP's will be needed eventually. Get him in now before the long layoff could really adversely affect him

 

Jon in game 1 will still probably out pitch whoever the angels or yanks would have going. But if he gets lit up or loses, you want the Sox ace in game 2 so the sox shouldn't be down 0-2 going on the road for 3 games.

[beck72]

And if the series never gets to a game 7? You only throw your ACE one time in the series. That doesn't make any sense. I say play to win this thing as quickly as possible, and don't bank on game 7's. Plan for that and you will lose with bullets still in your gun.

 

Contreras going in game 2 [and presumably winning] would guarantee the sox at least 5 games. Contreras can go in game 5 on short rest if needed. But the sox other SP's have to step up. Garland has a fairly decent chance at stepping up and winning if given a start. It's not like he's Danny Wright or Jason Grilli

[greasywheels121]

I'm reading all I can on this of late, because I don't want to see anyone else but the Count. Here's what the SunTimes had in the paper today:

 

http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-soxnt09.html

 

SO MANY CHOICES: The other big decision for Guillen is whether to start Jon Garland in Game 1 or move him to Game 2 to let Jose Contreras start the opener. Guillen also can skip Garland and use Contreras, Mark Buehrle and Freddy Garcia for the first three games of the series. The last option would leave Garland to start Game 4 on Saturday on the road, although Hernandez or McCarthy could be an option for that game, too.

 

Garland, who had a team-high 18 victories in the regular season, hasn't pitched since Oct. 1 at Cleveland.

 

"It would be kind of hard to go against what's worked,'' Garland said.

 

Indications are that Garland could pitch in a simulated game today and be ready to go next weekend.

[DBAHO]

Another thought on Garland, I know everyone expects to re-sign him to a deal this off-season, but if it came down to a choice b/w dealing Jose Contreras or Jon Garland for an excellent offensive piece like a Chad Tracy or Lyle Overbay etc. who would you deal?

 

Personally even though he's younger, I'd deal Garland if the right offer came along, and I know I've changed my tune on that, but I don't think you can trade Jose after what he's done in the 2nd half. But we may just keep both and dump El Duque on someone anyways.

[Dick Allen]

The only problem with the Count pitching against the Angels is they run. Any walk or single is an automatic double for a decent portion of their line-up. I wouldn't mind the Yankees winning tonight, having them fly to LA and have about a 15 inning game tomorrow night. The Sox could be up 2-0 before either team woke up. It is pretty amazing an 18 game winner hasn't pitched and will probably be skipped.

[Frankensteiner]

I'd feel horrible for Garland if they made him wait another week to start. Best pitcher in the regular season and all of a sudden there's no confidence in him starting? WTF?

[greasywheels121]

I'd feel horrible for Garland if they made him wait another week to start. Best pitcher in the regular season and all of a sudden there's no confidence in him starting? WTF?

 

Pity aside, do you think Garland gives us our best chance to go up 1-0 in the ALCS, and is most deserving of 2 starts in the ALCS? Garland had a good year, but I don't think so on either of those questions.

[Frankensteiner]

Another thought on Garland, I know everyone expects to re-sign him to a deal this off-season, but if it came down to a choice b/w dealing Jose Contreras or Jon Garland for an excellent offensive piece like a Chad Tracy or Lyle Overbay etc. who would you deal?

 

Personally even though he's younger, I'd deal Garland if the right offer came along, and I know I've changed my tune on that, but I don't think you can trade Jose after what he's done in the 2nd half. But we may just keep both and dump El Duque on someone anyways.

 

I'd keep them both, but if I had to pick I'd always keep the younger guy. And I wouldn't deal either for Chad Tracy or Lyle Overbay.

[Texsox]

And if the series never gets to a game 7? You only throw your ACE one time in the series. That doesn't make any sense. I say play to win this thing as quickly as possible, and don't bank on game 7's. Plan for that and you will lose with bullets still in your gun.

 

I knew if I read deep enough someone would have stated this. Bottom line Garland deserves a one start slot, not a two. Go back to Contreras, Buerhle, Garcia, Garland. It was the best shot in the first round and it is the best shot in this round. That is why you finish off teams early and hope the other series goes long.

[beck72]

I knew if I read deep enough someone would have stated this. Bottom line Garland deserves a one start slot, not a two. Go back to Contreras, Buerhle, Garcia, Garland. It was the best shot in the first round and it is the best shot in this round. That is why you finish off teams early and hope the other series goes long.

 

Can Garland give the sox a better start than MB and Freddy gave in their first games? Maybe. Maybe not. Is Jon a #4 or hasn't he been ahead of Freddy most of the yr? If it was a definite no than putting Jon back makes sense. If it's a toss up [and Garland has pitched well vs LAA], then sticking with Jon in game 1 or game 2 or even game 3 makes sense, all things being equal, seeing how the sox will need Jon this series.

[Frankensteiner]

Pity aside, do you think Garland gives us our best chance to go up 1-0 in the ALCS, and is most deserving of 2 starts in the ALCS?  Garland had a good year, but I don't think so on either of those questions.

 

Well, Garland is going to need to start a game here eventually, and you're just asking for trouble the longer he has to wait between starts.

 

And I know we won the last series and that's great, but I didn't think Garcia or Buehrle had particularly strong starts. They were hitting rockets off Buehrle in Game 2 and Garcia lasted only 5 innings.

Edited October 9, 2005 by Frankensteiner

[beck72]

Pity aside, do you think Garland gives us our best chance to go up 1-0 in the ALCS, and is most deserving of 2 starts in the ALCS?  Garland had a good year, but I don't think so on either of those questions.

It's not just a matter of who can put the sox up 1-0. It's putting which SP in the best order that will help the sox win 4 games vs their next opponent. Not having Garland pitch in close to 2 weeks certainly won't help.

 

Like a posted earlier, Jose loses game 1 and Jon was supposed to start game 2. The sox face the prospect of going down 0-2 going on the road for 3 games. The sox need to win at least 1 game at home before they go on the road. Having Jose pitch in game 2 would give the sox a good chance to at least get 1 win.

[beck72]

Well, Garland is going to need to start a game here eventually, and you're just asking for trouble the longer he has to wait between starts.

 

And I know we won the last series and that's great, but I didn't think Garcia or Buehrle had particularly strong starts. They were hitting rockets off Buehrle in Game 2 and Garcia lasted only 5 innings.

 

From the sounds of it, people think Garland sucks and can't best the starts of MB and freddy. I disagree. jon is needed and should pitch in game 1 or 2.

[YASNY]

How would you like to go to game 4 with the Sox down 2-1 and Garland on the mound and not thrown a pitch in a game sitaution in two weeks?

[DBAHO]

I'd keep them both, but if I had to pick I'd always keep the younger guy. And I wouldn't deal either for Chad Tracy or Lyle Overbay.

Young players who make $335,000 who can hit .308 (27HR)/.359/.553 are very valuable around the league.

 

Of course a possible scenario is this, El Duque and Garland could be dealt, and KW could try to sign a Japanese pitcher like he did with Iguchi last off-season, but that's unlikely to happen.

 

That said, Garland and Jose's value are the highest they've ever been. Looking at Jon's stats, he's decreased his walks by about 30, but still only struck out 115 batters. Now I know K'ing batters isn't the end all to be all, but it does help, and JG gives up the long ball more than say Mark Buerhle who also doesn't K a lot of hitters. It's one of the more interesting scenarios waiting in the off-season.