NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Oct 9, 2005 -> 02:09 PM) Ok, I'm just going to cite a few outings later in the season in which Marte "re"-earned my respect. After having the fallout with Ozzie, Kenny and co. and his alleged firing, Marte enters two ballgames in Minnesotta and turns out two very impressive and CRUCIAL outings in the later innings. Ozzie told him if you want a place on this team and you really think you belong, you have to get it back. He threw him right in the fire and Damaso produced. He's a left handed pitcher, and a pretty talented one at that. If he has "it" he can produce in the clutch and get some big outs. If he doesn't, he starts walking people and puts runners on. He has to be on the roster. I'm sorry. Having him off the roster just doesn't make a lick of sense. One left handed reliever in the ALCS...errrr...I dunno. Marte BLOWS!!! I dont care if he's left handed. That means nothing at all when you cant find the plate. We cannot afford another Marte appearance anymore. Every out is critical at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CYGarland Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 QUOTE(qwerty @ Oct 9, 2005 -> 01:20 PM) Everyone on the sox can get lefties out better than marte. Just because you throw left handed doesn't mean you always have an advantage. Viz is way worse vs. Lh's than Marte....... Can we all just agree we don't want to see either guy, period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 QUOTE(CYGarland @ Oct 9, 2005 -> 02:25 PM) Viz is way worse vs. Lh's than Marte....... Can we all just agree we don't want to see either guy, period. Im with ya there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CYGarland Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Oct 9, 2005 -> 01:25 PM) Marte BLOWS!!! I dont care if he's left handed. That means nothing at all when you cant find the plate. We cannot afford another Marte appearance anymore. Every out is critical at this point. Viz blows too. At least Marte has shown he can get a Big K, Viz has shown me ABSOLUTELY nothing. Edited October 9, 2005 by CYGarland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 QUOTE(CYGarland @ Oct 9, 2005 -> 02:25 PM) Viz is way worse vs. Lh's than Marte....... Can we all just agree we don't want to see either guy, period. No doubt, but if the situation comes to it, I'd much rather have viz out there then damaso. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 QUOTE(CYGarland @ Oct 9, 2005 -> 03:26 PM) Viz blows too. At least Marte has shown he can get a Big K, Viz has shown me ABSOLUTELY nothing. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I could've sworn I just saw someone post the second half splits of Marte and Viz in response to one of your posts. Did you miss it? Marte is f***ing terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddisonStSox Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Oct 9, 2005 -> 02:27 PM) No doubt, but if the situation comes to it, I'd much rather have viz out there then damaso. Viz's splits are horrendous. You want Vizcaino out there facing a LH instead of Marte? Ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CYGarland Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Oct 9, 2005 -> 01:27 PM) No doubt, but if the situation comes to it, I'd much rather have viz out there then damaso. Your smoking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 Again - Having a lefty for the sake of having a lefty does nothing. Hopefully this doesn't need to be repeated 12 more times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CYGarland Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Oct 9, 2005 -> 01:28 PM) I could've sworn I just saw someone post the second half splits of Marte and Viz in response to one of your posts. Did you miss it? Marte is f***ing terrible. Marte comes in in Big situations. Viz is always mopping up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 QUOTE(CYGarland @ Oct 9, 2005 -> 03:31 PM) Marte comes in in Big situations. Viz is always mopping up. And goes W, H, W. What's your point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankensteiner Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 New article on the Tribune site seems to indicate Garland will go in game 3 and not game 4. Jose Contreras will start Game 1 Tuesday just as he pitched the opener against the Red Sox. And Mark Buehrle will again pitch Game 2 at U.S. Cellular Field. But when the series shifts to either New York or Anaheim for the middle three games, Guillen will use 18-game winner Jon Garland in Game 3 with Freddy Garcia in Game 4. The White Sox were 3-3 against New York and 4-6 against the Angels. Garland didn't start against Boston, so he will be pitching on nearly two weeks rest. That's why he and the talented rookie McCarthy -- who was again left off the roster -- were throwing to batters Sunday in simulated games along with relievers Damaso Marte and Luis Vizcaino. http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...-home-headlines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddisonStSox Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 No, I think you guys are right. Again, Ozzie has nothing on armchair, Soxtalk managerial committee. For ages, it has been believed that left hander pitchers have an inherant advantage versus left handed batters. But, let's live and die by those stats and trot out a guy like Vizcaino over a left handed reliever--and one, that, if on his game, can be one of the best left handed relievers in all of baseball--because Marte "can't get anybody out." Believe me, I'm far from leading the Damaso Marte fan club, but I don't understand why the argument isn't one of Vizcaino versus McCarthy instead of Marte versus McCarthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Oct 9, 2005 -> 02:29 PM) Viz's splits are horrendous. You want Vizcaino out there facing a LH instead of Marte? Ok I meant if those two are the last two left in the bullpen then I want viz out there for an inning much more then I want damaso out there for an inning. Viz's splits against lefties are definitely not good, Damaso's suck as well though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CYGarland Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 QUOTE(IlliniKrush @ Oct 9, 2005 -> 01:32 PM) And goes W, H, W. What's your point? Viz's #'s are better in the 2nd half, because he came in when the game was basically over. NO pressure. Hence much better #'s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 QUOTE(CYGarland @ Oct 9, 2005 -> 03:35 PM) Viz's #'s are better in the 2nd half, because he came in when the game was basically over. NO pressure. Hence much better #'s. That's a weak argument, at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Oct 9, 2005 -> 02:34 PM) No, I think you guys are right. Again, Ozzie has nothing on armchair, Soxtalk managerial committee. For ages, it has been believed that left hander pitchers have an inherant advantage versus left handed batters. But, let's live and die by those stats and trot out a guy like Vizcaino over a left handed reliever--and one, that, if on his game, can be one of the best left handed relievers in all of baseball--because Marte "can't get anybody out." Believe me, I'm far from leading the Damaso Marte fan club, but I don't understand why the argument isn't one of Vizcaino versus McCarthy instead of Marte versus McCarthy. Time out here. I'm far from a stat guy so don't even try to put that on me, second it doesn't take a sabermetician to figure out Damaso can't get a f***in lefty out, Damaso can't get a f***in batter out. He comes in, throws 2 strikes then just walks the guy on the next 4 pitches. Damaso was one of the best relievers in baseball two years ago, right now he sucks, period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Oct 9, 2005 -> 03:34 PM) No, I think you guys are right. Again, Ozzie has nothing on armchair, Soxtalk managerial committee. Sometimes, he doesn't. Bottom line. I don't want Marte used in any sort of important situation. I don't care about your hopefulness that he rediscovers some sort of magic. He just proved in one game that he shouldn't be used in any pressure situations. Again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 QUOTE(CYGarland @ Oct 9, 2005 -> 03:35 PM) Viz's #'s are better in the 2nd half, because he came in when the game was basically over. NO pressure. Hence much better #'s. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So you'd rather have Marte s*** his pants in a tough situation than have Vizcaino do his job. Here's a few reasons why Viz wasn't in the same situations as Marte: Hermanson, Politte, and Jenks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CYGarland Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Oct 9, 2005 -> 01:34 PM) I meant if those two are the last two left in the bullpen then I want viz out there for an inning much more then I want damaso out there for an inning. Viz's splits against lefties are definitely not good, Damaso's suck as well though. This is the playoffs. There is no need for Viz whatsoever in a close game. Don't forget that you can use starter's in relief if necessary. Viz's only use to me is mopup, and McCarthy should fill that role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddisonStSox Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Oct 9, 2005 -> 02:34 PM) I meant if those two are the last two left in the bullpen then I want viz out there for an inning much more then I want damaso out there for an inning. Viz's splits against lefties are definitely not good, Damaso's suck as well though. I'm with you there. Statistically, those two are dreadful against left handed hitting. I don't have the splits in front of me, but, I'm pretty sure the trio of Politte, Hermanson and Cotts have much, much, much better lefty splits. But, the playoffs are a whole different beast. I'm not too familiar with the strengths of the Yankee and Angel lefties, but, we have a manager that coaches with his gut and I could very easily see Marte trot out in the eigth to get two tough lefties out or a lefty and a righty out. Vizcaino on the other hand........ Like I said earlier, I guess I'm just having a hard time understanding why the arguement is McCarthy v. Marte instead of Vizcaino v. McCarthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 QUOTE(CYGarland @ Oct 9, 2005 -> 02:38 PM) This is the playoffs. There is no need for Viz whatsoever in a close game. Don't forget that you can use starter's in relief if necessary. Viz's only use to me is mopup, and McCarthy should fill that role. So once again, you would rather have damaso in the bullpen in danger of being used cause he throws with his left hand when he can't get a left handed batter out, instead of a guy who will be in the pen and not used unless it's a must, and if it's a must he's a much better guy to have in the pen then damaso to throw an inning or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosMediasBlancas Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 It's obvioius to me now that Ozzie will keep trotting Marte out there over and over. At some point during the ALCS, Marte might be successful, maybe even spectacular, he might even close out the clinching game. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. BUT that doesn't make this decision by Ozzie a good one. A guy should be judged by how often he plays well, not by one potentially timely, great performance. That performance is what Ozzie keeps waiiting for, he thinks it will vindicate his decision to keep Marte. I'll take a wait and see attitude, but Marte better be on an extremely short leash. If he puts 2 guys on, with his usual walk followed by a double, Ozzie should yank his ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Oct 9, 2005 -> 03:39 PM) I'm not too familiar with the strengths of the Yankee and Angel lefties, but, we have a manager that coaches with his gut and I could very easily see Marte trot out in the eigth to get two tough lefties out or a lefty and a righty out. Sweet Jesus, i hope this never, ever happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Oct 9, 2005 -> 02:40 PM) There are some things in baseball that can be very dumbed down to understand. This is one of them. Marte cant get anyone out. LH, RH, Batboys, ME, anyone.(Alright, Maybe me.) Just because McCarthy is on the roster doesnt mean they are going to use Brandon in the same situation they would use Marte. It would probably mean we see more of Cotts, which is think is what we all want. He needs to be off the roster. Exactly, Basically the same thing I just said the post under yours, if Damaso is on the roster he's in danger of being used cause of that damn left hand of his. Viz will only be used if we run out of pitchers some how. No damaso means more cotts, more cotts means more outs. Edited October 9, 2005 by Rowand44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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