Fee not paid, firefighters let home burn.

[qwerty]

How f***ing ridiculous is this...

 

Carl Berg failed to pay a $25 annual fee for rural fire protection and, as a result, firefighters let his house burn to the ground last month near International Falls, Minn.

 

Along with his daughter and a grandson, Berg escaped the fire, grabbing two rifles and a camcorder as he went.

 

"I lost everything [else]," he said. "Stand and watch it burn was all I could do. ... They should have put the thing out, but they didn't."

 

Some area residents are expressing outrage about a system that can let that happen -- and about a dispute involving the International Falls Fire Department, Koochiching County and the Rural Fire Protection Association, which collects annual fees and pays the city for each fire it fights outside city limits.

 

"You either buy it or you don't have it," said Don Billig, the association's secretary.

 

"You buy the fire protection up here, and you have it," Billig said.

 

http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/5653868.html

[EvilMonkey]

If he would have sold the camcorder, he could have paid for several years of fire coverage. Now he just gets to videotape his house burning.

[Mercy!]

I don’t know about ridiculous, exactly. Another way to look at it is: HE let his family suffer a total loss by failing to pay the $25 he knew he owed. He could have sold one of his rifles or his camcorder.

 

Them’s the breaks when you don’t pay your bills. If you let your homeowner’s insurance lapse, you don’t have any insurance. If you stop paying tuition, you stop being a student. If you don’t pay your taxes, they place a lien against your property. If you don’t pay your water bill, they shut off your water. And on , and on. Bad outcomes. But not unexpected.

[Brian]

Didn't Jerry, Elaine, george, and Kramer get arrested for standing around and doing nothing when the fat guy was getting mugged?

[qwerty]

I don’t know about ridiculous, exactly.  Another way to look at it is:  HE let his family suffer a total loss by failing to pay the $25 he knew he owed.  He could have sold one of his rifles or his camcorder.

 

Them’s the breaks when you don’t pay your bills.  If you let your homeowner’s insurance lapse, you don’t have any insurance.  If you stop paying tuition, you stop being a student.  If you don’t pay your taxes, they place a lien against your property.  If you don’t pay your water bill, they shut off your water.  And on , and on.  Bad outcomes.  But not unexpected.

 

None of your examples take lives. This is a totally different scenario IMO.

[Texsox]

I wonder if his land started on fire and it spread to neighboring properties if that would have been better.

[Goldmember]

None of your examples take lives. This is a totally different scenario IMO.

 

you honestly think they'd let people die??? they almost assuredly knew everyone was out of the house. the man gambled with his home and livelihood on the line and lost. such is life...

[qwerty]

you honestly think they'd let people die??? they almost assuredly knew everyone was out of the house. the man gambled with his home and livelihood on the line and lost. such is life...

 

This makes me believe they could have cared less either way.

 

"You either buy it or you don't have it," said Don Billig, the association's secretary.

 

"You buy the fire protection up here, and you have it," Billig said.

[GoodAsGould]

If there were people in the house that couldnt get out and they didnt do anything that would be 1 thing. But if these assholes want to be cheapos and their lifes are not in danger let their house burn down. Just teaches everyone a listen that being cheap doesnt pay off.

[Mercy!]

Hello. Did anyone read the linked article? qwerty neglected to include this part in his quote:

 

The Fire Department poured enough water on Berg's structure -- a mobile home and enclosed porch -- to put the fire out temporarily and make sure everyone was safe.

 

But when firefighters were called back later, they let the rekindled blaze destroy the building's remains.

[CanOfCorn]

Here's the solution: Don't pay the $25 fee? Fine. Fire at your house? We'll put it out, but since you didn't pay for the "insurance," we will bill you for services rendered. They do it for ambulance service...why not fire service. But standing around and watching it burn is ridiculous.

Edited October 11, 2005 by CanOfCorn

[The Critic]

Here's the solution:  Don't pay the $25 fee?  Fine.  Fire at your house?  We'll put it out, but since you didn't pay for the "insurance," we will bill  you for services rendered.  They do it for ambulance service...why not fire service.  But standing around and watching it burn is ridiculous.

This.

And have the fee for services rendered be whatever the cost of putting it out is.

If it cost the FD 1,000 bucks to gas the trucks, pay the firefighters and shoot the water, then the bill is 1,000 bucks. Have that be law, so non-payment could be seen as a criminal offense.

[Mercy!]

But wouldn’t you concede that someone who refused to sell one of his two rifles or his camcorder to protect his family against loss from fire, would probably not be a good candidate to pay the real costs for putting out an actual fire?

 

So now you’d have a situation where the state would confiscate his trailer AND his land if he didn’t pay the $1000 bill, when he was unable/unwilling to pay the $25 originally? I don’t know what you mean by “criminal offense” in this instance. We don’t have debtors prison anymore.

 

Actually, this sounds like a situation where the “small gummint” people chose has totally let down the community it is supposed to be serving. Along the lines of “you get what you pay for,” and they’re getting crappy public services. Taxes - they're not just a tool of the Devil (Democrats).

[FoxySoxGirl]

Didn't Jerry, Elaine, george, and Kramer get arrested for standing around and doing nothing when the fat guy was getting mugged?

 

 

Why yes they did and although Seinfeld was a great show, I don't think that would hold up in a real court. Props for remebering classic Seinfeld moments though.

 

As far as the $25 fee goes, no one runs into burning houses for the hell of it all the time...give a little to get a little eh?

[Mplssoxfan]

People in Northern Minnesota (and I've met my share) as we say here, are different. This is probably a guy who b****es and moans about everything under the sun, from taxes to farmers to rich city residents who post their land so he can't hunt there to high gas prices, etc, etc & etc.

 

He took a risk that his house wouldn't burn and he lost. He refused to pay the $25 that all his neighbors were paying and he lost his house. I feel bad for him, but, hey, gambling hurts families, right?

[Texsox]

Is this the America we want to live in? The firefighters put it out once. I guess this is the difference between the America ideal. Neighbors helping neighbors through a crisis use to be the standard of American behavior. Now it's f*** you, too bad, we're not helping because you didn't pay $25. I find it sad.

 

Volunteer fire departments use to be run as a community, with the residents helping each other. Some community members contributed more, some less or not at all, but everyone was helped. Another example of America pulling apart instead of pulling together.

[Mplssoxfan]

Is this the America we want to live in? The firefighters put it out once. I guess this is the difference between the America ideal. Neighbors helping neighbors through a crisis use to be the standard of American behavior. Now it's f*** you, too bad, we're not helping because you didn't pay $25. I find it sad.

 

Volunteer fire departments use to be run as a community, with the residents helping each other. Some community members contributed more, some less or not at all, but everyone was helped. Another example of America pulling apart instead of pulling together.

 

Concur 100%, regardless of how my last post sounded. I hope the community comes toghther for this guy and helps him rebuild.

[jackie hayes]

Is this the America we want to live in? The firefighters put it out once. I guess this is the difference between the America ideal. Neighbors helping neighbors through a crisis use to be the standard of American behavior. Now it's f*** you, too bad, we're not helping because you didn't pay $25. I find it sad.

 

Volunteer fire departments use to be run as a community, with the residents helping each other. Some community members contributed more, some less or not at all, but everyone was helped. Another example of America pulling apart instead of pulling together.

Re: the "some...contributed more, some less" -- The guy obviously has $25. It's not like he couldn't contribute, he just chose not to.

 

Which is to say, he chose not to help his neighbors. Quid pro quo is fine and good, but there's no obligation to help someone who only looks out for his own quid. Might as well demand that everyone split the cost for this guy just because he doesn't feel like paying. In which case, why would anyone pay?

 

These firefighters from another town were willing to go to his house just to make sure everyone was safe, apparently without any guarantee that their own costs would be covered. I don't know how anyone could demand more of them; if his record collection burns, tough s***.

[Texsox]

Quid pro quo is fine and good, but there's no obligation to help someone who only looks out for his own quid. 

 

There was a day in America where we helped out of altruism. We didn't look for something in return, we didn't look to see if they had contributed in the past. We helped because it was the right thing to do. It was one of the things that seperated us from other societies. We gave of ourselves, we didn't keep track of credits and debits.

[jasonxctf]

t.s. pay your bill.

[Texsox]

t.s. pay your bill.

 

One man gives freely, yet gains even more; another withholds unduly, but comes to poverty.

 

If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him?

 

Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

II Corinthians 9:7

 

An AMerica where every person is only for themselves is not the society I want to leave to my grandchildren.

[EvilMonkey]

There was a day in America where we helped out of altruism. We didn't look for something in return, we didn't look to see if they had contributed in the past. We helped because it was the right thing to do. It was one of the things that seperated us from other societies. We gave of ourselves, we didn't keep track of credits and debits.

I blame the lawyers & insurance companies. If they continued to put out the fire and a firefighter got hurt, maybe the insurance company won't pay because they were fighting a fire they weren't paid to fight. Tex, if you yourself helped get this guy out of his trailer, and in the process injured him, your butt would be sued faster than you can say 'tort reform'. Where does giving of yourself stop because it becomes a burden unto yourself? There was a poll question on the radio asking if people were suffering from 'catastrophy burnout'. I say a resounding hell yes! I am tired of goving. I give, almost until it hurts. But I have a family to take care of, and 4 employees with families to also worry about. Have I sacraficed? Yes. But I don't know how much more I can take. For all youknow, these firefighters, who probably get paid per call, were not gonna get paid for that visit. And if they got hurt during an unauthorized visit, you could probably kiss disability goodbye as well. Why are people obligated to help those that fail to help themselves?

[Texsox]

I blame the lawyers & insurance companies.  If they continued to put out the fire and a firefighter got hurt, maybe the insurance company won't pay because they were fighting a fire they weren't paid to fight.  Tex, if you yourself helped get this guy out of his trailer, and in the process injured him, your butt would be sued faster than you can say 'tort reform'.  Where does giving of yourself stop because it becomes a burden unto yourself?  There was a poll question on the radio asking if people were suffering from 'catastrophy burnout'.  I say a resounding hell yes!  I am tired of goving. I give, almost until it hurts.  But I have a family to take care of, and 4 employees with families to also worry about.  Have I sacraficed?  Yes. But I don't know how much more I can take.  For all youknow, these firefighters, who probably get paid per call, were not gonna get paid for that visit.  And if they got hurt during an unauthorized visit, you could probably kiss disability goodbye as well.  Why are people obligated to help those that fail to help themselves?

 

It is very easy to justify walking by anyone in trouble. And that is the America we are building for our grandchildren. You are on your own. Don't help anyone unless you get something in return. Find any excuse not to get involved.

 

You are not obligated. You can legally watch someone die, so watching their home burn isn't a legal issue.