espnjohn1 Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 This team is as low as it's ever been in my time on this planet. I know the record doesn't reflect it, but fan apathy toward the ownership is at an all time high. I was excited when I read about the 300ft LED boards that extend from home plate to the foul pouls in the upper deck on both 1st & 3rd base sides. I was thinking, sure there will be ads no doubt, but maybe just maybe, they'll have some trivia games, frog races, brat races, etc. Something to engage the fans with. Hell an ESPN like ticker would be nice. But no JR could give a crap about the fans. All these boards do is refresh ads. All game long. They are more of a distraction than an enhancement. The new scoreboard is nice, but if you're in the bullpen sections you're view is obstructed by the new CF deck. The bottom line is the experience is lessened. So after all the $ spent, other than some nice new cosmetic changes they made it less enjoyable for the fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 In your lifetime, maybe it seems that way. In my lifetime, i saw Chicago almost lose the Sox a bunch of times and JR's buying the team kept them in Chicago - the best savior of WS baseball in Chicago since the one Allyn brother bought ouit the other. And when the deal was signed with US Cellular, the lease at Comiskey was extended for another 15 times, JR's way of making sure the team stayed in Chicago after he was gone. And for that, I thank him with everything I've got. For those who say the MLB would never let the Sox leave Chicago, tell me about it when you buy me a beer at the next NFL game in LA. Thank you JR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 All I know is that I'd like to be involved in the franchise somehow. I think a little different, "outside the box" type thought could be helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 All I know is that I'd like to be involved in the franchise somehow. I think a little different, "outside the box" type thought could be helpful. Very much agreed, Jason, some outside the box thinking would be welcome indeed - very much needed - and I for one wish you were involved with the Sox now, and I hope you will be some day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPinStripes Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 In your lifetime, maybe it seems that way. In my lifetime, i saw Chicago almost lose the Sox a bunch of times and JR's buying the team kept them in Chicago - the best savior of WS baseball in Chicago since the one Allyn brother bought ouit the other. And when the deal was signed with US Cellular, the lease at Comiskey was extended for another 15 times, JR's way of making sure the team stayed in Chicago after he was gone. And for that, I thank him with everything I've got. For those who say the MLB would never let the Sox leave Chicago, tell me about it when you buy me a beer at the next NFL game in LA. Thank you JR. I cannot belive you just posted that vince. Dont you remember when we were almost the Sarosota Sox? When Jerry held the city hostage unless he got a new stadium and the TAXPAYERS paid for it. Notice how all the retired numbers are down now? You know why? Becaus rhtey're not making him any money! He dont give a s*** about Chicago. Where ever he can get people to pay for his franchize is where he'll go. He and Eddie paid 20 mill for this team and the first thing they did was make the fans pay to watch them on tv. and now the organization pays for it because a lot of kids didnt watch the Sox growing up. The Cubs were always on tv but not the Sox. I was able to watch because my father was a season ticket holder and "Ontv" customer. You cant walk 5 feet in that park without a f***ing banner in your face. JR has never spent money the right way in this town. With all teh advertising, we should at least be able to keep up with the Yankees. They dont have banners everywhere. They have an owner that makes money by spending it on the team then gettin git back, not waiting for sponsors to pay it. And for all this :fyou jerry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPinStripes Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Very much agreed, Jason, some outside the box thinking would be welcome indeed - very much needed - and I for one wish you were involved with the Sox now, and I hope you will be some day Put a SnR skull on the front and have concerts after the games on friday night! I'll get that place packed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espnjohn1 Posted May 13, 2003 Author Share Posted May 13, 2003 You're looking at their potential based on the Chicago market. Whereas I'm looking at the reality of what is. They still have a stadium located in one of the poorest per capita income areas in the city. Don't tell me about neighboring Brideport. If you look at the location of the stadium in comparison to all other stadiums in the league today it's in the poorest per capita area. Detroit has a beautiful new stadium located in a nice area showing Downtown Detroit's skyline. They are suffering from talent much like the Brewers & Pirates. But talent's the easiest thing to improve when you have a lucrative place to play in. Cleveland is still living off the fruits of Jacobs Field & if there existing talent rises to the all-star level they'll be back in the 90 payroll range again. KC & Minn are still lobbying for new stadiums but both are still in areas that have a higher per capita income than the SOX. You mention the SOX TV revenue, & grant it that's what keeps this team alive. But since 20% of that revenue goes to MLB & gets funneled to the Twinkies, Royals, & Tigers it's not that much of a gain. When I add up the economics of the whole division the SOX look to be in as bad of shape as the Twinks & KC. The SOX will not draw over 2mil until they win a playoff series. Period. Nothing is going to change that as long as they play in US Cell. I'm sorry but I don't share your joy in the SOX being chained to the location of US Cell. Given the consistently high streams of local revenue generated by the SOX in Chicago, there is no way MLB would seek to move the SOX from this market. Especially since the league steals 20% of the revenue a yr now from both teams. It's more likely that MLB would push for moving the SOX to a new Chicago metro location than to be left with 1 team in this TV market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Mike, I remember the sarasota thing well and always felt that was a bargaining chip. I have seen the Sox a lot worse than then they have been in the JR tenure and 4 division titles in his time is the most any Sox owner has ever won in our history. I have seen the Sox play a lot worse than they are now. Other than 1977, and maybe 1973, I give you the 70s - the JR era has given us better bal. Am I frustrated? Hell yes, and a hell of a lot more than you because I have lived with this team for more years. f*** it, I remember talking baseball with my grandfather and now I take my grandson to the games. That adds up to a lot of years of wishing thios would be the year. There are days on this board that I think I am ther only fan here who is old enough to remember first hand the last time the Sox won a pennent. And I am not a JR fan but I also appreicate what he has done. I have had the chance to thank two Sox owners in my time for saving the team in Chicago, and JR is one. The lease extension in the US Cell deal was very overlooked - but far and away the most important part of the package., Want to talk about Sox pr, I would probably agree with you 100%. Start a bash Rob Gallas thread and I am right there with you all the way. I have seen the fortunes of both teams wane and ebb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 The SOX will not draw over 2mil until they win a playoff series. Period. That may well be true, totally. Have you been to Comerica? I have, many times. Look at the attendance. The Jake is empty now. The Cell aka Comiskey Park is where it should be. All the crying about other stadiums being better don't mean a damned thing. Go look at old Tiger stadium. bad location? Bulls***. When Fidrich pitched there you coudln't get a seat. Look at our attendance numbers form the early 90s. We had our new ballpark boost. Forget tinkering with the ball park or even worse thinking of moving it - ain't gonna happen. Stick it in the f***ing suburbs with no transportation and super roadcongestion and your atttendance will be worse. Spend $300 million to build a south loop park - ain't gonna happen no more than a suburban park. Put the money into the team. When the team is winning, after they have won that playoff series as you say, everyone will be there like they have been before. Everything else is cosmetic bulls***. I travel - one way - 205 miles to the park. There are no f***ing excuses for anyone in Illinois or surrounding states. If a person wants to be there, that person will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernuke Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 i think the Bottom line is that JR has done some good and some bad for this team but it's time for someone new to be in charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 there is no way MLB would seek to move the SOX from this market. Especially since the league steals 20% of the revenue a yr now from both teams. It's more likely that MLB would push for moving the SOX to a new Chicago metro location than to be left with 1 team in this TV market. same reasoning that explains all those NFL teams playing in the #2 market in the US - LA. Live with those fantasies - reality is, if deBartolo had bought the Sox, they's be in Denver now. The Cell is a perfect location - off of the Dan Ryan, not far off the skyway, and with great public transportation. Look at the attendance figures all time at 35th street. Maybe not in your instant memory, but the crowds have been there and will be. New park ain;t goinna happen. An improved team that wins a playoff series - that is where the $$ needs to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPinStripes Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Only 3 titles techincally vince. Sox would have won it in 94, but jerry was busy heading the lockout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espnjohn1 Posted May 13, 2003 Author Share Posted May 13, 2003 The marketplace is a LOT different than the era you're talking about. There is a lot more competition for leisure $'s now than it was then. You're wrong about transportation to a park in the burbs. Over 1/2 the patrons for the Flyers & Cougars come from a Metra train stop a few blocks away. There was a discussion about this on ESPN & we used multiplexes & movie theatres as a measure of how lucrative an area is. After all there's no greater measure of disposable income per the largest pop segment than the BO. Even people from resident Bridgeport admitted there is no theatre within 2miles of that area. If there are no $'s to support hollywood BO how will there ever be $'s to support a MLB team? The myth has always been that the SOX will draw the fans if they win. 2000 proved that is just a myth. To win the fans back the SOX have to win in the post-season & keep winning yr after yr. In the current economic framework in MLB that's just not possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 I am not wrong about traffic in the burbs. The numbers that a MLB team needs is a few more than what the floyers and cougers draw, doubled and squared. And I will match my markert savvy of today's needs over yours anyday. Don;t give me the bulls*** about "the era" I'm talking about. Life did not begin when you where born, nor is "my era" different than yours. The Sox need a winner and people will come. We have a fine ballpark with great transportation, site lines, access, parking, and everything else. The idea of multiplexes is from the same minds that gave us strip malls - it is a trnedy rend that will be dead soon and baseball will still be rolling along, and the Sox will need, as you say, rightly, a winner to put big numbers in the seats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espnjohn1 Posted May 13, 2003 Author Share Posted May 13, 2003 a winner to put big numbers in the seats. And when it costs on average 80mil to build a winner, how are the SOX going to raise enough revenue in the poorest per capita income area of all MLB ball parks? We are no better than OAK in terms of the economics. And OAK is LOT richer in talent than we are. Yet OAK has no championship. The SOX are no different in terms of OAK, KC, or any other small market team. They have a small window of 4 yrs out of every 10 to try & win a championship. Beane had done the best job imaginable but even his luck will run out. Multiplexes are not a trend to die. They have been building for the better part of 10 yrs now & continue to expand. Digital projection will replace current 35mm film & that will be followed by 70mm film currently used by IMAX. They are here to stay & are a good measure of disposable income for any region. Where the SOX play today, there is little disposable income to speak of. The worst thing of all is what will happen if the Cub field a contender while JR is still messing with a 55mil payroll. A predominantly Cub town will become futher dominant by the Northsiders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 <- on JR's skull for letting Jessie influence the location of the new ballpark before 1991 I challenge you to come up with one bit of proof for that comment. Enough of the racist bulls***. The new park was buiolt where it was because of history, because Addison turned it down, because it was part of the political deal with the Republican governor (Thompson) and the Democraric mayor. I hope when you open your closet tonight, Jesse Jackson jumps out and yells "boo" and scares you s***less. Or is he under your bed? Or maybe he is hiding behind a tree... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espnjohn1 Posted May 13, 2003 Author Share Posted May 13, 2003 I challenge you to come up with one bit of proof for that comment. Enough of the racist bulls***. The new park was buiolt where it was because of history, because Addison turned it down, because it was part of the political deal with the Republican governor (Thompson) and the Democraric mayor. I hope when you open your closet tonight, Jesse Jackson jumps out and yells "boo" and scares you s***less. Or is he under your bed? Or maybe he is hiding behind a tree... Give me some time to find the evidence on the net, but I know for a fact Jessie was involved. They were looking at Addison as well as Rosemont at the time. Arlington Park was looked at as well. Any of the 3 would have drawn far more fans than they draw now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Jackson had nothing to do with it. Addison turned it down in a voters referendum. The governor - from Chicago - an alumni of North Park College in Chicago- wanted the Sox to stay in Chicago. Jesse Jackson had so nothing to do with the Sox staying where they did. Do you have any clues where the original Comiskey Park was? Do you know where the current Mayor Daley grew up? Could you find 3536 S Lowe on a map or in reality? That is bottom line why they stayed there - the history of staying in the same place made the politics all palatible to everyone - and Jackson had not one damned thing to do with anything. Incredible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.