Riddle me this Trent Yawney

[Pauly8509CWS]

I think your loyalty for a team which season after season is built for mediocracy at best is really hilarious.

 

People still root for the Bears...

[Rowand44]

Yeah,  the same cap that he helped get a whole season cancelled in order to get put in place.  I cant believe how people like you can support a man who cares nothing about the fans and everything about his wallet.  I think your loyalty for a team which season after season is built for mediocracy at best is really hilarious.

I know absolutely nothing about hockey but nuke just cause you don't like the owner doesn't mean you can't stay loyal to a team that you've always liked. There are a lot of people that don't like Reinsdorf but that doesn't mean they can't like the sox or the bulls. Whatever I really don't know much of the topic being discussed so I probably shouldn't get involved but just stating that you can remain loyal to a team even if you don't like the owner.

Edited October 21, 2005 by Rowand44

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

People still root for the Bears...

 

 

Ive had my fair share of rants about the Bears around here as well.

[DBAHO]

Yeah,  the same cap that he helped get a whole season cancelled in order to get put in place.  I cant believe how people like you can support a man who cares nothing about the fans and everything about his wallet.  I think your loyalty for a team which season after season is built for mediocracy at best is really hilarious.

So it's was Wirtz's fault alone that we had a lockout?? Look nobody likes him, but you can't go blaming all of the NHL's problems on him.

 

If you're talking about mediocracy, what about the White Sox before this season?

[Pauly8509CWS]

If you're talking about mediocracy, what about the White Sox before this season?

 

I thought about suggesting that, but I thought I'd get flamed.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

So it's was Wirtz's fault alone that we had a lockout?? Look nobody likes him, but you can't go blaming all of the NHL's problems on him.

 

If you're talking about mediocracy, what about the White Sox before this season?

 

 

I didnt say he was the WHOLE problem but his type certainly its pretty obvious he played a large role in the strike.

 

Also. The Blackhawks are engineered for mediocraty. The overriding theme that has prevailed there over the last 10 years is that a 500 team is good enough as long as Dollar Bill and his vertically integrated organ-i-zation is making money.

 

The White Sox have consistently been trying to improve their team over the years. If they have been mediocre its not for a lack of effort on the part of management. They have made adjustments, developed talent ( and kept it when it matured unlike their hockey counterparts ) and now they are on the cusp of reaping the benefits.

 

A team like the Slackhawks who is totally focused on their wallet at the expense of winning and the fans is doomed to failure season after season.

[DBAHO]

I didnt say he was the WHOLE problem but his type certainly its pretty obvious he played a large role in the strike. 

 

Also.  The Blackhawks are engineered for mediocraty.  The overriding theme that has prevailed there over the last 10 years is that a 500 team is good enough as long as Dollar Bill and his vertically integrated organ-i-zation is making money.

 

The White Sox have consistently been trying to improve their team over the years.  If they have been mediocre its not for a lack of effort on the part of management.  They have made adjustments,  developed talent ( and kept it when it matured unlike their hockey counterparts ) and now they are on the cusp of reaping the benefits. 

 

A team like the Slackhawks who is totally focused on their wallet at the expense of winning and the fans is doomed to failure season after season.

So I re-ask my original question. Do you think it's unfair that the likes of Jaromir Jagr and Alexei Yashin won't be getting huge contracts now (when they don't deserve it) because of what the owners did? Name 5 owners who were making a profit before the lockout.

 

How were the Blackhawks making money when Wirtz was complaining that salaries were too high, and a salary cap was needed? And if they were conmpletely focused on making money, why would they go out and sign the #1 FA goalie, one of the best FA d-men, etc. to improve the team?

[qwerty]

I know absolutely nothing about hockey but nuke just cause you don't like the owner doesn't mean you can't stay loyal to a team that you've always liked.  There are a lot of people that don't like Reinsdorf doesn't mean they can't like the sox or the bulls but whatever I really don't know much of the topic being discussed so I probably shouldn't get involved but just stating that you can remain loyal to a team even if you don't like the owner.

 

Damn, that is one long sentence.

[Rowand44]

Damn, that is one long sentence.

This coming from qwerty the grammar master?? I'll fix it, my bad.

[qwerty]

This coming from qwerty the grammar master??  I'll fix it, my bad.

 

I like that... hopefully it sticks.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

So I re-ask my original question. Do you think it's unfair that the likes of Jaromir Jagr and Alexei Yashin won't be getting huge contracts now (when they don't deserve it) because of what the owners did? Name 5 owners who were making a profit before the lockout.

 

How were the Blackhawks making money when Wirtz was complaining that salaries were too high, and a salary cap was needed? And if they were conmpletely focused on making money, why would they go out and sign the #1 FA goalie, one of the best FA d-men, etc. to improve the team?

 

Forbes magazine went and did a list of all the NHL teams and their basic financial statistics. The data is from 2004. According to this 13 of the 30 teams were profitable. I apologize but I cant get the link to work on here. Google search "Profitable NHL Teams" and you'll see it.

 

The Slacks made 9.4 million dollars off team operations and were the 3rd most profitable team in the leauge in dollar terms in 2004 which is the most recent statistics I could find. Im willing to bet that this excludes the money made from Wirtz's ownership of the concessions, liquor, parking and darn near everything else that has anything to do with the team. Wirtz was complaining salaries were too high because he's a cheap prick who wants to pocket as much as he can while paying his players as little as possible. By helping get a salary cap instituted Wirtz brought the salary bar down closer to his level rather than spend more to be competitive.

 

To answer your question about being focused on money their payroll is down significantly even with the additions of Kabibulin, Lapointe etc etc.. Wirtz slashed his payroll, helped cost the sport a season and for what? Money.

 

To answer your question about "Cashin" and the like, I believe that players deserve whatever they can get from the market. If they can convince an owner they are worth X amount of money then that is what the market value currently stands at. The owners set the salaries bar higher by themselves by trying to outbid each other for the top teir players then they have the nerve to whine about spiraling salaries. PUHLEEZE!!!

Edited October 21, 2005 by NUKE_CLEVELAND

[DBAHO]

http://www.forbes.com/lists/results.jhtml?...ry&passKeyword=

 

Forbes went and did a list of all the NHL teams and their basic financial statistics.  The data is from 2004.  According to this 13 of the 30 teams were profitable.

 

The Slacks made 9.4 million dollars off team operations and were the 3rd most profitable team in the leauge in dollar terms in 2004 which is the most recent statistics I could find.  Im willing to bet that this excludes the money made from Wirtz's ownership of the concessions, liquor, parking and darn near everything else that has anything to do with the team.  Wirtz was complaining salaries were too high because he's a cheap prick who wants to pocket as much as he can while paying his players as little as possible.  By helping get a salary cap instituted Wirtz brought the salary bar down closer to his level rather than spend more to be competitive.

 

To answer your question about being focused on money their payroll is down significantly even with the additions of Kabibulin, Lapointe etc etc..  Wirtz slashed his payroll, helped cost the sport a season and for what?  Money. 

 

To answer your question about "Cashin" and the like,  I believe that players deserve whatever they can get from the market.  If they can convince an owner they are worth X amount of money then that is what the market value currently stands at.  The owners set the salaries bar higher by themselves by trying to outbid each other for the top teir players then they have the nerve to whine about spiraling salaries.  PUHLEEZE!!!

Ok good find on the owners there, of course less than 50% of them making a profit really ain't that good anyways. I can see you'll never like Wirtz and I don't think any of us will.

 

I diasgree about Yashin though. Remember with Maggilo Ordonez, no-one was going to offer him much and more than a 1 year deal until Mike Illitch (who coincidentally owns the Red Wings) just comes in with a massive offer for absolutely no reason at all. This was pretty much the same with Yashin. He got the $$$$, and has chronically underachieved since. He makes so much, that the Isles were stuck with him even after the lock-out because it would cost too much for Charles Wang to buy him out. At least now with a cap, you won't see those type of huge long - term offers again.

 

As for the Hawks, remember in our last season before the lockout, we had what the 3rd worst record. We may have had a higher payroll, but I'll bet you now that this team (even though their record shows it) is a lot better than the 2004 one. You don't have to spend a lot of $$$$$ to be successful. Teams in any form of sport have shown that.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Ok good find on the owners there, of course less than 50% of them making a profit really ain't that good anyways. I can see you'll never like Wirtz and I don't think any of us will.

 

I diasgree about Yashin though. Remember with Maggilo Ordonez, no-one was going to offer him much and more than a 1 year deal until Mike Illitch (who coincidentally owns the Red Wings) just comes in with a massive offer for absolutely no reason at all. This was pretty much the same with Yashin. He got the $$$$, and has chronically underachieved since. He makes so much, that the Isles were stuck with him even after the lock-out because it would cost too much for Charles Wang to buy him out. At least now with a cap, you won't see those type of huge long - term offers again.

 

As for the Hawks, remember in our last season before the lockout, we had what the 3rd worst record. We may have had a higher payroll, but I'll bet you now that this team (even though their record shows it) is a lot better than the 2004 one. You don't have to spend a lot of $$$$$ to be successful. Teams in any form of sport have shown that.

 

 

Whose fault is it that those costly long term deals get done? The teams fault, not the players. The owners should not subsidize their own bad management decisions on the backs of the leauge and the fans.

 

You are very right you dont have to spend a lot of money to be successful but this team has a lot of money and chooses to build a mediocre at best team every year. Ownership doesn't care a whit about winning. Thats my problem with them. If they were a small market team that couldn't afford to keep homegrown players that become stars or to sign the best players then I would still be a fan but I will not subsidize cigars and scotch for some asshole owner who can afford better but chooses not to.

Edited October 21, 2005 by NUKE_CLEVELAND

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

http://www.blackhawkzone.com/recaps/102505gr.php

 

 

What a bunch of pussies this team is. Even Blackhawkzone cant resist taking swipes at them.

[kapkomet]

LMFAO.

 

Last night was the first time I had a chance to see the Blackhawks.

 

Man.

 

THEY SUCK.

 

Granted, Nashville is clicking on all cylinders right now, but the Hawks were 0 for their first 11 on the power play - Nashville had a lead 3-0 at the end of the first despite Chicago spending what seemed the entire period on the power play.

 

All these dips***s were doing was picking fights, and I got news for you, they lost all those too. Nashvile throroughly kicked the f***ing s*** out of them in every way possible.

[EvilJester99]

The Hawks are in a ton of trouble...their defense is terrible and Habby looks rotten... I have to blame the bad D on a lot of that but he still is letting so many soft goals in....I thought Tbo was Mr. Softy but Habby is looking just as bad.....Tallon better do something and quick like. This ship is going nowhere ......

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

The Hawks are in a ton of trouble...their defense is terrible and Habby looks rotten... I have to blame the bad D on a lot of that but he still is letting so many soft goals in....I thought Tbo was Mr. Softy but Habby is looking just as bad.....Tallon better do something and quick like. This ship is going nowhere ......

 

 

Sure we are. Another 7 years of rebuilding........thats where this team is going.

[kapkomet]

In viewing this game last night, it's their coaching. I had watched some things on Yawney and it seems like I've been quite misled on this deal.

 

Their systems are horrible. Again, I'm basing this on one game, but the record indicates what I saw last night is probably happening all over.

[IlliniKrush]

I agree with you to an extent Kap, but that lineup Tuesday was brutal.

[CWSGuy406]

Nuke -- I support the team, not the owner. I'm in no way a fan of Wirtz.

 

Weren't you going off on Reinsdorf just a year or two ago the same way? Maybe we should pull up some of those posts...

 

 

W/r/t the team, it's ugly. Slow, slow, slow. Brent Seabrook looks good, so that's nice. Then again, I've seen one game in whole this year, so I really shouldn't comment.

 

I will say this, however. A guy at BHZ really had me convinced on Khabibulin not being worth what he got paid. And no, he's not just going off of ten games. IIRC, he lives in Florida, so he sees Tampa Bay a lot -- and pretty much, he talked about how Thibault and Khabibulin put up eerily similar numbers throughout there careers -- or, at least, the past couple years -- while Khabi has had a much better defense in front of him.

 

I'm not putting all of this on Khabi, because it isn't totally his fault. But, when you give out top bucks to a 'top' goaltender, you expect him to be able to bail you out when your defense ain't playing so great. He isn't doing that right now.

 

Any chance Florida will give us Luongo for free? I have NHL Centre Ice, and he's the best goalie I've seen this year. He is so good.

[knightni]

I support the team, not the owner. I'm in no way a fan of Wirtz.

 

Weren't you going off on Reinsdorf just a year or two ago the same way? Maybe we should pull up some of those posts...

 

Wirtz is quadzillion times worse than Reinsdorf has ever been.

[DBAHO]

I blame Bob Pulford.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Nuke -- I support the team, not the owner.  I'm in no way a fan of Wirtz. 

 

Weren't you going off on Reinsdorf just a year or two ago the same way?  Maybe we should pull up some of those posts...

W/r/t the team, it's ugly.  Slow, slow, slow.  Brent Seabrook looks good, so that's nice.  Then again, I've seen one game in whole this year, so I really shouldn't comment.

 

I will say this, however.  A guy at BHZ really had me convinced on Khabibulin not being worth what he got paid.  And no, he's not just going off of ten games.  IIRC, he lives in Florida, so he sees Tampa Bay a lot -- and pretty much, he talked about how Thibault and Khabibulin put up eerily similar numbers throughout there careers -- or, at least, the past couple years -- while Khabi has had a much better defense in front of him.

 

I'm not putting all of this on Khabi, because it isn't totally his fault.  But, when you give out top bucks to a 'top' goaltender, you expect him to be able to bail you out when your defense ain't playing so great.  He isn't doing that right now.

 

Any chance Florida will give us Luongo for free?  I have NHL Centre Ice, and he's the best goalie I've seen this year.  He is so good.

 

 

Wirtz wasn't named the worst owner in pro sports for nothing. Compared to him Reinsdorf looks like a saint.

 

 

One more important difference............Reinsdorf is committed to winning while Wirtz is committed to mediocracy at best. I cant support a team that doesn't show up and is just there to collect a paycheck which is owned by a s***bag owner who surrounds himself with yes men who tell him everything is great.

Edited October 28, 2005 by NUKE_CLEVELAND

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

BTW. The word is out on Kabibulin. You go over his shoulder and you got yourself a goal. Everybodys doing it.

[Pauly8509CWS]

BTW.  The word is out on Kabibulin.  You go over his shoulder and you got yourself a goal.  Everybodys doing it.

 

 

Of course, it has nothing to do with the Hawks taking 800 penalties a game and traffic infront of the net. It's all the goalie and the coach's fault...