Where Sciocia really screwed up

[southsider2k5]

Why would he use his back up catcher to start the game, and have his starter DHing instead? He has got to be smart enough to realize if you need the better Molina in the game, you would lose the use of the DH for the rest of the game if you move him in at Catcher. Instead they PR for Molina late in the game, and instead Josh Paul has to go in at Catcher, meaning the 2nd base was an easy steal for Molina.

 

Getting past the Strike 3/Out controversy, would they have sent Ozuna for 2nd with a Molina behind the plate? Could Ozuna have scored from first on Crede's ball to the wall? That one little move trying to give the better Molina a day off behind the plate, was a big factor in the 9th inning to say the least.

[Texsox]

Where did you read that?

 

 

Spot on mate

[knightni]

The better Molina's arm was probably still hurting him from getting hit in the Yankees series.

Edited October 13, 2005 by knightni

[BigSqwert]

The better Molina's arm was probably still hurting him from getting hit in the Yankees series.

 

If so, I didn't notice any pain in that arm when he gunned down 2 guys in game 1.

[AddisonStSox]

You make a great point. However, I'm still going to maintain Sciocia's biggest mistake was belaboring the call with the officiating crew as long as he did. Escobar was really in a groove, his team was playing on their toes, and he took the wind right out of their sails with the lengthy objection. I'm not saying he shouldn't have argued the call--in fact, he would have been wrong NOT to--however, I really, truly think he may have hurt his ballclub more than helping them by staying out there for as long as he did. He would have been much better getting the guys together, giving his pitcher a pat on the rear-end and clapping his hands while walking back to the dugout. I mean, you really felt he knew his team was going to fail in that inning. It was a sign of things to come both figuretively and literally.

[nitetrain8601]

The better Molina's arm was probably still hurting him from getting hit in the Yankees series.

 

We have a winnah!

[Wanne]

would they have sent Ozuna for 2nd with a Molina behind the plate?

 

I don't think a cannon would have been Ozuna after the jump he got. It seemed like he was almost half way there when Escobar released the pitch.

[RibbieRubarb]

I would like to add the following:

 

You had an obvious steal about to happen and Escobar did NOTHING to slow Ozuna down.

One throw over, but he continued to use his full, high leg kick wind-up instead of going to a slide-step. Nor did Sciocia use the pitch-out, which worked to perfection in the first game.

 

Plus Escobar had Crede, who was hitting .111 in the postseason, in an 0-2 count and he threw a down the middle fastball instead of the splitter that no one was hitting.

 

That's how the Angels lost the game. Not because of an Umps call.

 

The defense rests, your Honor.

[southsider2k5]

If so, I didn't notice any pain in that arm when he gunned down 2 guys in game 1.

 

^^^

 

Well to be fair, one of them was AJ

[knightni]

If so, I didn't notice any pain in that arm when he gunned down 2 guys in game 1.

It was his left (non-throwing) arm that he hurt.

 

It probably had swelling that wasn't as prevalent in game 1 due to it being the next day.

 

 

It could affect him catching the ball.

Edited October 13, 2005 by knightni

[Kid Gleason]

Molina throws with the right, he got hit on the left. It has been well noted that his throwing was NOT effected by being hit.

 

 

edit: DAMN YOU KNIGHT, DAMN YOU!!! Beat me out on the smart posts will you???

Edited October 13, 2005 by Kid Gleason

[Iwritecode]

Why would he use his back up catcher to start the game, and have his starter DHing instead?  He has got to be smart enough to realize if you need the better Molina in the game, you would lose the use of the DH for the rest of the game if you move him in at Catcher.  Instead they PR for Molina late in the game, and instead Josh Paul has to go in at Catcher, meaning the 2nd base was an easy steal for Molina. 

 

Getting past the Strike 3/Out controversy, would they have sent Ozuna for 2nd with a Molina behind the plate?  Could Ozuna have scored from first on Crede's ball to the wall?  That one little move trying to give the better Molina a day off behind the plate, was a big factor in the 9th inning to say the least.

 

This was also a big part of the 9th inning controversy.

 

Had Josh Paul been in the entire game he would have known that the umpire did not say "no catch" the entire game and wouldn't have expected him to say it then.

[southsider2k5]

You make a great point.  However, I'm still going to maintain Sciocia's biggest mistake was belaboring the call with the officiating crew as long as he did.  Escobar was really in a groove, his team was playing on their toes, and he took the wind right out of their sails with the lengthy objection.  I'm not saying he shouldn't have argued the call--in fact, he would have been wrong NOT to--however, I really, truly think he may have hurt his ballclub more than helping them by staying out there for as long as he did.  He would have been much better getting the guys together, giving his pitcher a pat on the rear-end and clapping his hands while walking back to the dugout.  I mean, you really felt he knew his team was going to fail in that inning.  It was a sign of things to come both figuretively and literally.

 

To be fair to Mike, he was trying to argue the call from every angle, trying to get Eddings to involve the other umpires hoping that one of them could/would overrule the call. That couldn't happen until Eddings asked their opinions, and that took a while. The second time he went out there, I believe he was protesting the game, which was fully in his rights to do, and probably not a bad idea either. Ask George Brett, but you never know what could happen under protest.

 

Now I do agree with you that Sciocia should have gathered his team up, and had a real official mound visit to calm everyone down and refocus them. You could tell everyone was too hung up on "the call" to focus on what they needed to do. If you ask me, it was very Prior/Gonzalez-esque in the way that it played out.

[knightni]

Molina throws with the right, he got hit on the left. It has been well noted that his throwing was NOT effected by being hit.

edit: DAMN YOU KNIGHT, DAMN YOU!!! Beat me out on the smart posts will you???

 

 

 

I was just saying that, perhaps it affected his ability to catch and grip the baseball with his glove.

 

A 95 mph fastball can create quite a shudder in your arm when you catch it, I bet.

[kapkomet]

And I sure hope that this is our "Marlins" play that keeps us going. We all know how that story turned out, don't we?

[DonkeyKongerko]

Plus Escobar had Crede, who was hitting .111 in the postseason, in an 0-2 count and he threw a down the middle fastball instead of the splitter that no one was hitting.

 

 

From what I've read it was a hanging splitter. You can see Paul before the pitch setting a very low target which makes sense considering what Escobar had done to every other batter he had faced.

[NorthSideSox72]

The Molina that played catcher last night had a lower pitched-to ERA for Washburn than the DH'd Molina. They showed the stat during the game, on the scoreboard in the park. I suspect that was the main reason. He was Washburn's Molina.

 

With Washburn ill, all the more important to give him his most comfortable target to thrwo to.

[Rowand44]

From what I've read it was a hanging splitter. You can see Paul before the pitch setting a very low target which makes sense considering what Escobar had done to every other batter he had faced.

It was a hanging splitter, you can see the ball take a bit of a dip but nothing like he was throwing earlier, it just hung up there and got nailed.

[knightni]

Escobar had reached his pitch limit and let his guard down after the AJ play.

 

The Angels all left their guards down.

 

 

How else to you explain the ease of Ozuna stealing 2nd?

[Balta1701]

The better Molina's arm was probably still hurting him from getting hit in the Yankees series.

I believe he also was hit in game 1 by a foul ball in the later innings that looked like it hurt quite a bit.

[CanOfCorn]

I believe he also was hit in game 1 by a foul ball in the later innings that looked like it hurt quite a bit.

 

He got hit on the top of the foot, if I remember correctly. I'm guessing it's all of the above, plus to give him a bit of a blow. but, he didn't want to take him out of the lineup completely because, except for yesterday, he was tearing the cover off the ball. It doesn't matter because the White Sox won, the LAAoA lost...and now we can take 3 of 5 and move on.

[witesoxfan]

If you ask me, it was very Prior/Gonzalez-esque in the way that it played out.

 

I was thinking the exact same thing.

 

Eddings will get the blame for all of this...but truth be told, his call, whether you feel it right or wrong, scored no runs, and it put absolutely no runners in scoring position. The Angels' mental mistakes are what killed them. This is so unbelievably similar to the Cubs-Bartman thing, where all you ever heard about is Bartman, but so few people it seems remember that Prior threw a pitch that produced a taylormade double play ball that was botched by Gonzalez. Gonzalez makes that play, turns the DP, and the Cubs move on the World Series, end of story, and Steve Bartman's name is forever removed from the lore of baseball history.

 

If I'm an Angel fan right now, I'm obviously pissed about the call...but I'm probably more pissed that Escobar just let Ozuna take second, and that he put a ball on a tee for Crede to hit.

[IlliniKrush]

You make a great point.  However, I'm still going to maintain Sciocia's biggest mistake was belaboring the call with the officiating crew as long as he did.  Escobar was really in a groove, his team was playing on their toes, and he took the wind right out of their sails with the lengthy objection.  I'm not saying he shouldn't have argued the call--in fact, he would have been wrong NOT to--however, I really, truly think he may have hurt his ballclub more than helping them by staying out there for as long as he did.  He would have been much better getting the guys together, giving his pitcher a pat on the rear-end and clapping his hands while walking back to the dugout.  I mean, you really felt he knew his team was going to fail in that inning.  It was a sign of things to come both figuretively and literally.

Addy i agree with you to a point. As the argument went on and on, i was thinking to myself, "what will the impact of this be? Who does this favor?" I also thought Escobar could get somewhat cold.

 

However, like SS2k said, he has to argue that call until he's blue in the face, in every possible way, to get it reversed. At that point, i think trying to reverse the call easily trumped keeping your pitcher warm, because this is one of those calls that could have easily gotten overturned, in theory.

 

And i don't disagree with pinch running for Molina at that spot. Paul should have gotten the job done, plain and simple. He's a major league catcher, even if he's a backup, and he's on the playoff roster, so he's trusted. 12 year olds i ump know to just tag the guy for s***s in case i think he dropped the ball and call it as such, when in reality it's a catch.

[BlackBetsy]

I think Guillen screwed up by starting the wrong catcher, too. Widge had drilled Washburn earlier in the season. AJ looked crummy against Washburn in a couple of ABs.

 

But AJ did the job at the end.

 

(Of course, had AJ simply taken the pitch for ball 4 rather than swung at it, we'd all be talking about Crede's clutch hit and Buehrle's pitching instead).

[heavyduty]

By the title of this thread, I thought you were going to talk about his commitment to the nuclear plant instead of concentrating on softball.