Official College Basketball Thread

[whitesoxin']

What do preseason rankings mean? Nothing. Just look at the preseason MLB predictions.

[ZoomSlowik]

To help cheer me up from the Steelers loss a little, the Tar Heels finished off one of the all-time great recruiting classes.

http://northcarolina.scout.com/2/453159.html

 

Not like anyone else cares :-P

 

What's scarier is they were in the running at the end for Spencer Hawes.

 

Is it just me, or does it take less than it used to in order to get a high pre-season ranking? Granted I wouldn't bump up a whole of teams (Maryland looks too low, Memphis should be pretty high, and I like LSU more than some of the teams that follow), but damn. I have no problem with the first few, but some of the top 10 and low teen teams aren't that good.

 

Some of the teams I think are only decent but are ranked pretty high:

 

-Oklahoma has some solid guys back, but I don't think they're worthy of #6. They lost some key players from their backcourt. Outside of Gray, Bookout, and Everett, they've got some question marks.

 

-What has Arizona done to deserve to be that high too? They lost by far their two best players. Adams is pretty good, and Shakur, Radenovic, and Rodgers are decent, but come on. McClellen being out will hurt, and they need newcomers/role players to step up.

 

-I don't get the BC hype either. They get bounced in the second round, lose one of their few dependable scorers, and they somehow get better? Outside of Smith and Dudley, they have major issues.

 

Teams where I question whether or not they should be ranked:

 

-Kentucky that high really bothers me. Unless Randolph Morris gets eligible really soon, they're going to have to lean very heavily on Patrick Sparks and Rajon Rondo. They're pretty good, but they can't carry a team.

 

-How is Bama ranked? 3 of their 4 good players play in the post. Unless some guards come out of nowhere, they won't be THAT good.

 

-West Virginia bugs me too. They were highly mediocre all year, and then came up with a couple of great games. They lost some key players and simply won't be the same team.

Edited October 17, 2005 by ZoomSlowik

[Palehosefan]

Ouch, I just heard Sherron Collins chose Kansas over Illinois. Thats a tough loss.

[WHarris1]

Ouch, I just heard Sherron Collins chose Kansas over Illinois. Thats a tough loss.

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f*** f*** f*** f***

[thedoctor]

Ouch, I just heard Sherron Collins chose Kansas over Illinois. Thats a tough loss.

disappointing. still, meacham is a nice hedge until the gordon-rose years begin (hopefully, fingers-crossed).

[Chisoxrd5]

disappointing. still, meacham is a nice hedge until the gordon-rose years begin (hopefully, fingers-crossed).

 

True...hopefully Chester Frazier and Trent can bridge the gap for one season until Rose and Gordon decide to choose ILL...which is beginning to look like a big if with Gordon now looking at Duke and Rose being recruited by every whos who in college basketball.

 

It is remarkable to me after watching our team last year run a guard friendly offense that had two players taken in the first round, is unable to recruit a big time guard. It is slightly concerning and dumbfounding...

[thedoctor]

True...hopefully Chester Frazier and Trent can bridge the gap for one season until Rose and Gordon decide to choose ILL...which is beginning to look like a big if with Gordon now looking at Duke and Rose being recruited by every whos who in college basketball.

 

It is remarkable to me after watching our team last year run a guard friendly offense that had two players taken in the first round, is unable to recruit a big time guard. It is slightly concerning and dumbfounding... 

 

no doubt. for awhile a prescribed to the theory that it would just take time for weber to come in and establish his presence. however, matta's kind of blown that whole theory to hell.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Rose to DePaul. (fingers crossed)

[whitesoxfan99]

True...hopefully Chester Frazier and Trent can bridge the gap for one season until Rose and Gordon decide to choose ILL...which is beginning to look like a big if with Gordon now looking at Duke and Rose being recruited by every whos who in college basketball.

 

It is remarkable to me after watching our team last year run a guard friendly offense that had two players taken in the first round, is unable to recruit a big time guard. It is slightly concerning and dumbfounding... 

 

I am starting to really doubt Weber's recruiting. But he does have a great eye for talent. Frazier is legit and will be a very good PG for us. I should have known that as soon as the White Sox make a WS I would have to get some bad news from somewhere else. It couldn't happen any other way. Gordon has consistently said that UI is his #1 school. He was at our MM this week and loved it and last I saw he had Duke behind Illinois and Zona. I was never optimistic about Collins or Scheyer and I'm not overly optimistic about Rose but I am very optimistic about Gordon being an Illini.

Edited October 17, 2005 by whitesoxfan99

[Buehrle>Wood]

Rose is about as big of a lock to Illinois as any Illini recruit can get right now. Just pray he decides soon.

[fathom]

Rose is about as big of a lock to Illinois as any Illini recruit can get right now. Just pray he decides soon.

 

I can guarantee you that's not true. UNC will be a big factor by the time he has to decide, assuming Lawson has a short college career. Until Weber learns how to suck up to superstar high school players, he's going to struggle to land marquee players.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Rose is about as big of a lock to Illinois as any Illini recruit can get right now. Just pray he decides soon.

 

...Until the bill self home visit.

[Heads22]

You know what other school was really going after Curtis Stinson? Drexel, the powerhouse of the east. Great recruits are nice, but if you got the coaching, and Illinois does, and players willing to work hard, anything can happen.

[Buehrle>Wood]

You know what other school was really going after Curtis Stinson? Drexel, the powerhouse of the east. Great recruits are nice, but if you got the coaching, and Illinois does, and players willing to work hard, anything can happen.

Reminds me of Chester Frazier of the Fighting Illini. His only other offers were from La Salle and The College of Charleston.

 

Despite this, I guess he has been absolutly phenomenal since makng his commitment.

[thedoctor]

Reminds me of Chester Frazier of the Fighting Illini. His only other offers were from La Salle and The College of Charleston.

 

Despite this, I guess he has been absolutly phenomenal since makng his commitment.

 

it will be interesting to see how frazier develops. there's been a lot of positive buzz about him in the preseason so far and people seem to think he can play some good minutes this year. we'll see.

 

if he does emerge as a contributor, it will no doubt help ease the sting of losing collins.

 

anyway we can find out a way to meld zook and weber? we have one coach who can recruit but can't coach, and another who can coach but can't recruit. put em together...

 

(kidding, i know weber can recruit)

[IlliniKrush]

From Mark Tupper's blog:

 

Sherron Collins’ decision to commit to Kansas over the weekend, after attending the Jayhawks’ Midnight Madness event, is peculiar to say the least

 

It’s not that Kansas isn’t a great basketball school. It is.

It’s not that he wouldn’t have been bowled over by the atmosphere at Midnight Madness. I’m sure he was.

And it’s not that he couldn’t find success at Kansas and beyond. He very well could.

 

But no matter how these things turn out, it’s always intersting to see who is pulling the strings in the recruitment process and some of the behind-the-scenes things make you scratch your head in wonder.

 

When Collins came to Illinois on a previous visit, he told the coaches he wanted to commit. Right then. On the spot. Let’s get it over. This is where I want to be. But his coach, Crane Tech’s Anthony Longstreet, told Collins he wouldn’t let him commit just yet. He wanted to wait.

 

Longstreet said he felt Collins should take a visit to Kansas. And even though he wanted to play at Illinois, they’d make a courtesy visit to the Jayhawks, then return to Illinois (on Oct. 22) and have an announcement the next week. OK, Collins said. They’d do it that way.

 

But somewhere along the line — and somehow — Collins was convined he should be at Kansas. Don’t waste your time analyzing this from a basketball standpoint. Of course Weber’s motion offense appears to be a better fit for a guard who covets a professional career, just as it was for Deron Williams and Luther Head and Dee Brown (and Chester Frazier and Jamar Smith, etc…) This isn’t about basketball. It’s about a coach steering a kid some place and whenever that happens you have to wonder why? Why overrule a young man’s instincts? Guide, but don’t decide, that should be the coach-player rule.

 

Of course, Collins hasn’t called the Illini coaches since his decision was made (for him?). Calls to him have gone unanswered. Even calls to his uncle, who at one point appeared to be in Illinois’ corner, have gone silent.

 

I was in Indianapolis in July and conferred with other reporters who listened to Collins speak at the Nike All-Ameican Camp. You could not help but come away from that meeting feeling that Illinois was in great shape. And you’re a fool if you believe any of this was about one school “out-working” another. Illinois did everything it could do, above board, and came away empty.

 

I’m not accusing anyone because I have no proof of misbehavior. But I am always uncomfortable when outside influences seem to make the recruiting decision rather than the player himself. And one can’t help wonder why that outside influence felt so compelled to dictate the young man’s decision.

 

Bruce Weber has no choice but to move on. If he lands Derrick Rose and Eric Gordon, he’ll be in great shape at the guard position. And, Gordon, who said he had such a good time at Illinois’ “Madness” event Friday night, might be back on campus this weekend for another visit. Even now, with Chester Frazier looking better than first believed, and Jamar Smith possibly a shooter of great merit, Illinois is not desperate at the guard spot. And don’t forget: Weber has a commitment from the one thing Illinois has rarely had — a skilled big man. Brian Carlwell is going to be a 7-footer who will do some significant damage before all is said and done.

 

I hope Collins’ decision works out well for him. I just wish I thought it was a decision he made on his own.

 

I still can't believe this s***. This was in the bag. I wasn't even concerned about it, really. What did Self do, sing and dance for another recruit?

[thedoctor]

From Mark Tupper's blog:

I still can't believe this s***. This was in the bag. I wasn't even concerned about it, really. What did Self do, sing and dance for another recruit?

 

cha-ching.

[Palehosefan]

I have a feeling it wasn't really about what Self did for Sherron, but instead how Self convinced Sherron's "handlers" that Kansas all along was the better place. Its really unfortunate, but some players end up with handlers or guardians or even parents that truly don't have their best interests at heart. Not that I know for sure this was the case. Self somehow recruited Sherron to KU with Mario Chalmers as only a freshmen this year. Both guards are in the exact same mold. Both are scoring PG's, Russell Robinson is somewhat in the same mold as only a sophomore also.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Do any illini fans think it's just a case of self being a better recruiter and kansas being a more attractive option?

 

I liked our chances with rose before traitao left, and in a discussion between a few fans and a former assistant coach, he was hinting that we were doing well in recruiting him. Now that Leitao left, I'm not surprised when I see recruits losing interest and DePaul losing out on recruits that were seemingly on their way here.

 

All I ask for is a top 50 recruit commit next year. Wainwright has a lot of work to do, especially since many DePaul fans were not impressed by the hire.

 

Tough schedule this year too. It'll be interesting to watch this year's freshman, which is a top 20 recruiting class, grow.

[thedoctor]

Do any illini fans think it's just a case of self being a better recruiter and kansas being a more attractive option?

 

I liked our chances with rose before traitao left, and in a discussion between a few fans and a former assistant coach, he was hinting that we were doing well in recruiting him.  Now that Leitao left, I'm not surprised when I see recruits losing interest and DePaul losing out on recruits that were seemingly on their way here.

 

All I ask for is a top 50 recruit commit next year.  Wainwright has a lot of work to do, especially since many DePaul fans were not impressed by the hire.

 

Tough schedule this year too.  It'll be interesting to watch this year's freshman, which is a top 20 recruiting class, grow.

 

self being a better recruiter? that's a good reason. self is a helluva recruiter.

 

kansas a better option? no. they are stacked at point guard, including chalmers who as was noted above is in the exact same mold as collins. also, weber put two guards into the first round of the nba draft this year, and it's clear that his offense is a better fit for a guard like collins. nine out of 10 guards would rather play in motion than in a hi-low.

[fathom]

Plain and simple: Weber doesn't know how to recruit big-time players with big-time egos. There was a particular super recruit last year that chose Kansas over the Illini that really didn't care for Weber. All these accusations being made by the Illini camp that Kansas cheated to get Collins is PATHETIC to me for the following reason: Trust me, Self didn't learn how to cheat at Kansas. If he cheats now, he was cheating at Illinois. If you're on the Illiniboard, go and read what Deron Williams mom had to say about Self.

[IlliniKrush]

Why don't you just save us the hassle and post it. I don't want to be around IB right now.

[RockRaines]

From Mark Tupper's blog:

I still can't believe this s***. This was in the bag. I wasn't even concerned about it, really. What did Self do, sing and dance for another recruit?

Its no secret that Weber is a horrible recruiter, and thats one of Self's only real positives.

 

Weber made a good run with someone else's recruits, but not its gut check time for him, and I honestly dont think he can do it. I wouldnt be surprised to see Illinois start to fall back to 3rd or 4th in the big ten eventually.

[Heads22]

Oh well, he'll still get shut down by Iowa State.

[Buehrle>Wood]

You guys need to understand that College Basketball is not about winning games or even championships. It's about getting the best recruits and most McDonald's All-Americans.