Official College Basketball Thread

[IlliniKrush]

You guys need to understand that College Basketball is not about winning games or even championships. It's about getting the best recruits and most McDonald's All-Americans.

Well that couldn't be further from the truth.

[Heads22]

{sarcasm}

[Buehrle>Wood]

{sarcasm}

Thank you very much.

[IlliniKrush]

I thought you meant something else by your post, basically saying coaching doesn't matter and it's all about recruiting. Should have been in green.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Plain and simple:  Weber doesn't know how to recruit big-time players with big-time egos.  There was a particular super recruit last year that chose Kansas over the Illini that really didn't care for Weber.  All these accusations being made by the Illini camp that Kansas cheated to get Collins is PATHETIC to me for the following reason:  Trust me, Self didn't learn how to cheat at Kansas.  If he cheats now, he was cheating at Illinois.  If you're on the Illiniboard, go and read what Deron Williams mom had to say about Self.

 

That's exactly what I was alluding to.

 

I agree.

[Jimbo's Drinker]

It will be interesting to see what $elf can do with his own players now at KU

[thedoctor]

Its no secret that Weber is a horrible recruiter, and thats one of Self's only real positives.

 

Weber made a good run with someone else's recruits, but not its gut check time for him, and I honestly dont think he can do it.  I wouldnt be surprised to see Illinois start to fall back to 3rd or 4th in the big ten eventually.

 

horrible is a little strong. he has shortcomings as have been well covered, but it's not like he's pulling in dogs***. carlwell is a guy everyone in a country was after, and he'll be wearing orange and blue next year. calvin brock was the player of the year in chicago and he'll be wearing o and b this year. horrible is not an accurate term, imo.

 

also, some good new for illinois. guard eric gordon out of indianapolis will be visiting again this weekend. he was there for midnight madness and is returning this weekend because he had a great time.

 

eric gordon

[RockRaines]

horrible is a little strong. he has shortcomings as have been well covered, but it's not like he's pulling in dogs***. carlwell is a guy everyone in a country was after, and he'll be wearing orange and blue next year. calvin brock was the player of the year in chicago and he'll be wearing o and b this year. horrible is not an accurate term, imo.

 

also, some good new for illinois. guard eric gordon out of indianapolis will be visiting again this weekend. he was there for midnight madness and is returning this weekend because he had a great time.

 

eric gordon

Horrible is the word I intended to use. You are saying, well, hes not bad, he got a few good recruits. You are talking about a team that was dominant all last year!! Top tier program, very visable tv schedule, very visable players. Players that just jumped to the NBA. A team that spent most of the season on top. And you are saying, well, at least he got a few good players.

With a team like he just had, with the exposure he just had, he should have a top 3 recruiting class this year, thats it.

[Chisoxrd5]

Horrible is the word I intended to use.  You are saying, well, hes not bad, he got a few good recruits.  You are talking about a team that was dominant all last year!!  Top tier program, very visable tv schedule, very visable players.  Players that just jumped to the NBA.  A team that spent most of the season on top.  And you are saying, well, at least he got a few good players.

With a team like he just had, with the exposure he just had, he should have a top 3 recruiting class this year, thats it.

 

Give it a few years...it wasn't 'horrible' and for you to say that you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. If he misses out on Gordon, Rose, Mbakwe, Cole, Bayless and the whole other slew of talented Juniors looking at us and does not compile a top 5 class then we have something to be worried about. The way it has shook out is not favorable, but one good recruiting year can turn it all around.

 

I'm disappointed, no doubt, but to say it is horrible is way out of line.

[fathom]

Give it a few years...it wasn't 'horrible' and for you to say that you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. If he misses out on Gordon, Rose, Mbakwe, Cole, Bayless and the whole other slew of talented Juniors looking at us and does not compile a top 5 class then we have something to be worried about. The way it has shook out is not favorable, but one good recruiting year can turn it all around.

 

I'm disappointed, no doubt, but to say it is horrible is way out of line.

 

So far, it's been horrible. He's missed out on Wright, Scheyer, and Collins. If you keep losing top in-state talent, your recruiting is going to be considered horrible. Could you imagine a similar program like Georgia Tech, if they kept missing out on the best players in Georgia? Quite simply, high school recruits don't mesh well with Weber's personality (and this isn't just a rumor).

[Chisoxrd5]

So far, it's been horrible.  He's missed out on Wright, Scheyer, and Collins.  If you keep losing top in-state talent, your recruiting is going to be considered horrible.  Could you imagine a similar program like Georgia Tech, if they kept missing out on the best players in Georgia?  Quite simply, high school recruits don't mesh well with Weber's personality (and this isn't just a rumor).

 

I am the most shocked by the Collins decision. Julian Wright was a big fan of Selfs before he left Illinois. Scheyer had Duke written all over him....don't lie to yourself. I have no explanation as to why Collins shunned Illinois, other than the fact that he made a quick 180 about a month ago after his coach, Anthony Longstreet, decided to be a larger factor in his decision making. It didn't work out and it is very upsetting, but horrible is such a terrible word for a team that still has a decent class coming in.

[thedoctor]

So far, it's been horrible.  He's missed out on Wright, Scheyer, and Collins.  If you keep losing top in-state talent, your recruiting is going to be considered horrible.  Could you imagine a similar program like Georgia Tech, if they kept missing out on the best players in Georgia?  Quite simply, high school recruits don't mesh well with Weber's personality (and this isn't just a rumor).

 

but i don't think he has "kept" losing top in-state talent. carlwell, jamar smith and brock were all considered among the top players in the state and none of them were lower than top-5. they all committed to ui.

 

i'll acknowledge they haven't gotten THE top kid in the state in any of the past three years, but i don't think that's totally attributable to weber's attitude. it hasn't helped that illinois' cycled through four coaches in the past 15 years.

 

i agree that it totally sucks ass that collins didn't come to illinois, but as a die-hard illinois fan i never thought we were seriously in the running for either scheyer or wright. scheyer wanted to play at duke. period. wright had a hard-on for self which was obvious. why else would he commit without even visiting the campus.

 

weber is not the recruiter self is, no doubt about it. that said, i'd take him on gameday any day. just ask bucknell.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

I have no explanation as to why Collins shunned Illinois, other than the fact that he made a quick 180 about a month ago after his coach, Anthony Longstreet, decided to be a larger factor in his decision making.

 

I'm not buying the coach excuse.

[RockRaines]

Give it a few years...it wasn't 'horrible' and for you to say that you obviously have no idea what you're talking about.

 

I'm disappointed, no doubt, but to say it is horrible is way out of line.

Its nice you are thinking positive and all. But the fact that you are dissapointed shows the truth enough. He had probably the best team in the nation last year, yet many of his top targets are going elsewhere. Something is wrong there. Its not like this reputation just sprung out of nowhere, he has the rep for being bad in the living room with recruits, and you are now seeing that first hand.

[thedoctor]

I'm not buying the coach excuse.

 

why not? from the beginning longstreet and collins acknowledged that longstreet was running the recruiting show. collins referred any questions about his recruitment to longstreet, and even his aau coach larry butler (one of the most influential aau coaches out there) had little say.

 

sherron made the decision and i am certain it was his decision, but to dismiss longstreet's influence in this ignores the high-profile role he played throughout collins' recruiting process.

Edited October 20, 2005 by thedoctor

[thedoctor]

Its nice you are thinking positive and all.  But the fact that you are dissapointed shows the truth enough.  He had probably the best team in the nation last year, yet many of his top targets are going elsewhere.  Something is wrong there.  Its not like this reputation just sprung out of nowhere, he has the rep for being bad in the living room with recruits, and you are now seeing that first hand.

 

then how was he able to get carlwell if he's so horrible at this?

[RockRaines]

then how was he able to get carlwell if he's so horrible at this?

Is that the recruit you are going to hang Weber's hat on?

 

Being that he had probably the best team in the nation last year, you find that signing Carlwell proves he can recruit?

[Heads22]

Being that he had probably the best team in the nation last year

 

 

??

[ZoomSlowik]

Is that the recruit you are going to hang Weber's hat on?

 

Being that he had probably the best team in the nation last year, you find that signing Carlwell proves he can recruit?

 

You really would hope that after a year like that he would be able to do better than Carlwell and Semrau. He's going to need to get another guard or two that can play pretty quick, since the motion offense relies on them pretty heavily. Gordon would be big, but even then he'll either need to get some more talented players or hope that the guys already on the roster step up big time after Brown and Augustine use up their eligibility. Guys like Rose, Walker, and Summers could be major boosts, but you need to start getting at least some of these guys if you want to be an elite program.

Edited October 20, 2005 by ZoomSlowik

[thedoctor]

Is that the recruit you are going to hang Weber's hat on?

 

Being that he had probably the best team in the nation last year, you find that signing Carlwell proves he can recruit?

 

no, i don't think it proves it anymore than not getting those other three guys proves he can't.

 

and why be dismissive of carlwell? he's a four-star recruit, collins is a five-star (fwiw, which ain't much). he's a skilled 6-10 kid who projects to grow to seven-feet. he's the fifth-rated center prospect in the nation according to scout.com. you make it sound like he sucks.

[Chisoxrd5]

no, i don't think it proves it anymore than not getting those other three guys proves he can't.

 

and why be dismissive of carlwell? he's a four-star recruit, collins is a five-star (fwiw, which ain't much). he's a skilled 6-10 kid who projects to grow to seven-feet. he's the fifth-rated center prospect in the nation according to scout.com. you make it sound like he sucks.

 

Unless you have seen them both play then I wouldn't comment.

 

Collins is a "wow" player...Carlwell is a project

 

Carlwell projects out to be a dominant big man but he has a long way to go. Sherron Collins is the real deal.

Edited October 20, 2005 by Chisoxrd5

[thedoctor]

Unless you have seen them both play then I wouldn't comment.

 

Collins is a "wow" player...Carlwell is a project

 

Carlwell projects out to be a dominant big man but he has a long way to go. Sherron Collins is the real deal.

i have. i grew up on the south side and get home quite a bit. usually i make it to a few games each year and i made a point to see both last winter since i knew they were illinois targets.

 

no question that collins is a great player. but if the argument is that weber can't recruit highly rated high school players, than carlwell is a compelling counter-argument. project or not, he was recruited by big schools. it's not like illinois beat out southern and western for him.

Edited October 20, 2005 by thedoctor

[RockRaines]

no, i don't think it proves it anymore than not getting those other three guys proves he can't.

 

and why be dismissive of carlwell? he's a four-star recruit, collins is a five-star (fwiw, which ain't much). he's a skilled 6-10 kid who projects to grow to seven-feet. he's the fifth-rated center prospect in the nation according to scout.com. you make it sound like he sucks.

According to rivals Carlwell is the 9th rated PF, and he is not a player that one of the top programs should hang their hat on.

 

Do not forget that Illinois was the talk of the nation last year, they were on covers, had extreme coverage and leap into the elite group of teams. Yet, Weber can seem to get the attention of the really blue chip players, doesnt that send you red flags?

[thedoctor]

According to rivals Carlwell is the 9th rated PF, and he is not a player that one of the top programs should hang their hat on. 

 

Do not forget that Illinois was the talk of the nation last year, they were on covers, had extreme coverage and leap into the elite group of teams.  Yet, Weber can seem to get the attention of the really blue chip players, doesnt that send you red flags?

 

according to scout he's the fifth-rated center. tomayto, tomahto. i know michigan state wanted him pretty badly.

 

it doesn't send me a red flag at all. it tells me there's still work to do. illinois has had one year under the national spotlight. nine times out of ten they are still going to have an uphill battle against the name programs (duke, kansas, kentucky, carolina, etc.).

 

how did maryland capitalize on their national title? do you see red flags around gary williams?

[Palehosefan]

According to rivals Carlwell is the 9th rated PF, and he is not a player that one of the top programs should hang their hat on.

 

Do not forget that Illinois was the talk of the nation last year, they were on covers, had extreme coverage and leap into the elite group of teams. Yet, Weber can seem to get the attention of the really blue chip players, doesnt that send you red flags?

 

Normally it takes 2-3 years after the event like Illinois had last year for the recruiting edge to kick in. Players 13-14-15 etc became fans of the Illini last year and it should pay off in future classes, most likely the 07 class, which is loaded.

 

On Insiders, the Illini have interest from 20 4 star players or above in the 07 class.

 

I don't think there's any denying though that Weber could stand to improve on his recruiting. He's got a great year to build off of, and has the Illini in the national spotlight, he now just have to find a great recruiter that he can put on staff, like Roy Williams has with Steve Robinson, or Coach K has with Johnny Dawkins, or like Rick Barnes has with Benjamin Franklins ;-)