Official College Basketball Thread

[Buehrle>Wood]

As for Bobby Frasor, I would say the majority of Illini fans are just a bit frusterated by all the press and recruiting high marks Frasor got for going to UNC, despite the fact that he really isn't all that great of a player.

Where do people get this impression from? It's just so common I have to ask.

 

Have you ever once seen him play? If so, what did you see that every other coach and media agent in America missed?

[Jimbo's Drinker]

or maybe the illini fans are angry at players like Frasor, collins, scheyer and wright.

 

god imagine if Weber could actually recruit talent.. what a team that would be.

[fathom]

Where do people get this impression from? It's just so common I have to ask.

 

Have you ever once seen him play? If so, what did you see that every other coach and media agent in America missed?

 

This is the type of b.s. which has really annoyed me by some Illini fans during the Weber recruiting debacle era. They think that every analyst/guru is stupid when it comes to ranking the players high, even though the rankings are pretty consistent across the board. If a player is ranked high, and they don't get him, they say he's overrated and the rankings don't matter. If they get someone like Carlwell who's in the 35-50 ranking area, they proclaim how he's such a great recruit BECAUSE of his ranking. When nearly everyone that saw Semrau play this summer say that he was a massive bust, then the fans again state that the gurus don't know anything.

 

As for me...I'll wait until these freshman aren't playing Division III athletes before I judge their potential. I know a main player on IWU, and for anyone to judge how the Illini players were against him is pretty odd to me.

[Jimbo's Drinker]

my exact opinion also

 

Weber has been reported to have pissed off not just local AAU coaches, but also the Chicago high school coaches.

 

Bye bye pipeline.

Edited November 9, 2005 by Jimbo's Drinker

[whitesoxfan101]

Weber is too honest to be a good recruiter, which is a major problem.

 

As for Frasor, I saw him play several times and wasn't particularly impressed. But then again, I should have kept it to myself, seeing as if I didn't see him play, I don't know what I'm talking about, but since I did, I can't evaluate talent, but ah well.

 

Weber is like the total opposite of Zook. Zook can recruit, but can't coach, whereas Weber can coach, but can't recruit. Those 2 need to be combined into some sort of megacoach.

[thedoctor]

As for me...I'll wait until these freshman aren't playing Division III athletes before I judge their potential.  I know a main player on IWU, and for anyone to judge how the Illini players were against him is pretty odd to me.

 

i'd agree with this. no matter what the talent, there's no way to judge how individual kids react as they move from one level to the next. i can understand criticism of weber's recruiting, but as an illinois fan its frustrating to see him hammered for this when all he's done at the school is win.

 

down the line if the program tapers off and he can't sustain the recent run of success, then fine, criticism will be warranted. but to base criticism now on the largely inaccurate ratings of internet "gurus" is just crap, imo.

 

as far as weber alienating people, i'd say it's a stretch to say weber has alienated any large group of aau or cpl coaches. he doesn't get along with butler, and he doesn't really like longstreet. other than that, i'd say he has a good working relationship with those guys, certainly not as bad as kruger's was. ask simeon's coach what he thinks of weber and illinois.

[Palehosefan]

Frasor is looking good, and not because Quentin Thomas looks bad. Quentin actually looks much better than last year, especially with his aggressiveness. But even with his improvements, Frasor has shown more intangibles to lead a team and has a great outside shot. He's certainly showing alot better than he did in the Mickey D's game, which wasn't his style of setting.

[ZoomSlowik]

i'd agree with this. no matter what the talent, there's no way to judge how individual kids react as they move from one level to the next. i can understand criticism of weber's recruiting, but as an illinois fan its frustrating to see him hammered for this when all he's done at the school is win.

 

down the line if the program tapers off and he can't sustain the recent run of success, then fine, criticism will be warranted. but to base criticism now on the largely inaccurate ratings of internet "gurus" is just crap, imo.

 

The thing is that he is probably going to have more problems as soon as next year if the recruiting doesn't pick up. Self's last two classes (one was when he left) were the Brown/Williams/Augustine class or the Randle/McBride class, which make up most of the players that are going to make a difference this year. Will Weber be able to sustain it after Dee and James are gone? It's going to be a lot more difficult without top level talent. Virtually every key player for the Illini in the last 5 years was a top 100 recruit (unless my memory is off, I think the only major exceptions are Bradford and the center on the Elite 8 team who's name escapes me, and the latter was a transfer), something they've been lacking in recent years. You can find a few good players that are hidden gems, but you usually can't rely on that in the long run. Luckily it looks like they could make a major impact in the 2007 class.

 

It helps that most of the Big Ten isn't recruiting very well (MSU isn't recruiting quite like it used to, Wisconsin has gotten a few but not dominated, Michigan gets a couple here and there but not a ton of guys, and OSU has one class so far), but it would help them a lot if they can get a blue chipper or two, especially if they want to be one of the elite programs in the country. The rankings might be subjective once you get outside of the top 50, but the top 30 or so are pretty consistent, and the bulk of those guys produce at the next level. To really make an impact on the national stage, they'll need more All-Americans like Frank Williams, Dee Brown, and Brian Cook.

Edited November 10, 2005 by ZoomSlowik

[whitesoxfan101]

The thing is that he is probably going to have more problems as soon as next year if the recruiting doesn't pick up. Self's last two classes (one was when he left) were the Brown/Williams/Augustine class or the Randle/McBride class, which make up most of the players that are going to make a difference this year. Will Weber be able to sustain it after Dee and James are gone? It's going to be a lot more difficult without top level talent. Virtually every key player for the Illini in the last 5 years was a top 100 recruit (unless my memory is off, I think the only major exceptions are Bradford and the center on the Elite 8 team who's name escapes me, and the latter was a transfer), something they've been lacking in recent years. You can find a few good players that are hidden gems, but you usually can't rely on that in the long run. Luckily it looks like they could make a major impact in the 2007 class.

 

It helps that most of the Big Ten isn't recruiting very well (MSU isn't recruiting quite like it used to, Wisconsin has gotten a few but not dominated, Michigan gets a couple here and there but not a ton of guys, and OSU has one class so far), but it would help them a lot if they can get a blue chipper or two, especially if they want to be one of the elite programs in the country. The rankings might be subjective once you get outside of the top 50, but the top 30 or so are pretty consistent, and the bulk of those guys produce at the next level. To really make an impact on the national stage, they'll need more All-Americans like Frank Williams, Dee Brown, and Brian Cook.

 

Good post. I think at the rate Bruce is recruiting combined with his coaching skills, the Illini can continue to be a factor in the Big 10. But the problem is, they won't have success in big time OOC games or in the NCAA Tournament, so if Illinois plans on coming anywhere near the success they had in the dance last year, they have got to recruit better rather than get all excited over 1 big time recruit like Carlwell.

 

And yeah it's a technicality, but Luther Head wasn't a top 100 recruit either, but your right, for the most part, the teams of the last few years have been built on top 100 players.

[Buehrle>Wood]

McNamara is having another terrible game. He's 0-6 including 0-3 from beyond the arc.

 

 

Can't say I didn't tell you...

[Buehrle>Wood]

Cornell within 3 with 8 minutes left in the 1st half. Meanwhile Florida has pulled away from St. Peter's.

[ZoomSlowik]

Good post.  I think at the rate Bruce is recruiting combined with his coaching skills, the Illini can continue to be a factor in the Big 10.  But the problem is, they won't have success in big time OOC games or in the NCAA Tournament, so if Illinois plans on coming anywhere near the success they had in the dance last year, they have got to recruit better rather than get all excited over 1 big time recruit like Carlwell.

 

And yeah it's a technicality, but Luther Head wasn't a top 100 recruit either, but your right, for the most part, the teams of the last few years have been built on top 100 players.

 

I thought Head was a fringe top 100. Whatever. Another issue is that once you get outside of about the top 50 your chances of finding an instant impact player drops considerably. I'd guess that virtually every freshmen starter was in the top 50 in recent years, and the ones that aren't are out of necessity.

 

I think he'll have to at least start getting some 4-star guys in order to consistently stay near the top of the Big Ten. He can live without the 5-star guys, but you can't keep hoping your 3-stars turn into stars. That doesn't happen too often in the bigger conferences, and even less on contending teams.

Edited November 10, 2005 by ZoomSlowik

[Buehrle>Wood]

HAHA

 

 

'Cuse down 3 with only 12 minutes left.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Syracuse ends up winning by 5 over Cornell. Very, very ugly game, especially by one Gerry McNamara.

[Jimbo's Drinker]

Just got a call from a kansas buddy.

 

Brandon Rush with 17/10

Jwrihgt almost had a triple double.

 

Sasha Kaun with 23.

[fathom]

Just got a call from a kansas buddy.

 

Brandon Rush with 17/10

Jwrihgt almost had a triple double.

 

Sasha Kaun with 23.

 

I love Julian, but 8 pts, 8 rebs, and 4 asts isn't close to a triple double. Rush had a great game, and Kaun had quite the interesting fg/ft pct tonight.

[Palehosefan]

http://livestats.kuathletics.collegesports...5/gt_index.html

[greasywheels121]

IU 96-49, w/out DJ. Man, this team is so deep. We can survive the DJ absence just fine. I'm confident in that now.

 

Ben Allen is tall.

 

 

That is all.

[greasywheels121]

Ben Allen is not only awesome at basketball, he's ridiculous at Tiger Woods.

 

Ben Allen: Austrailian for basketball.

[Rowand44]

Ben Allen is not only awesome at basketball, he's ridiculous at Tiger Woods.

 

Ben Allen:  Austrailian for basketball.

SPOILED

[easyw]

you heard it here first:

 

Ohio University! Top 25! Spoiler in the Big Dance!

[Rowand44]

you heard it here first:

 

Ohio University! Top 25! Spoiler in the Big Dance!

Meh..a lot of people are saying that.

[easyw]

Yeah but OU is such a small time program, I just love to hear it, again and again...

 

With the football team on the right track (seriously, 4 wins is HUGE), this may be the Golden Age of Ohio University sports. Frank Solich is GOD!

 

But keep an eye on OU basketball - they have tough opponents beyond the under rated MAC this season - Cincinnati, Kentucky, Detroit and Rhode Island - all notable teams...

[Buehrle>Wood]

Guardians Classic Predictions and Analysis:

 

Austin Regional

Texas over Southern

Sacramento State over Samford

 

Texas over Sacramento State

 

The promoters seemed to take the safe route in planning this tournament, putting no real challengers up against the opening round host schools. Expect Texas to roll through this regional, with a decent Sacramento State taking a game over Samford. Anything put 15+ victories for TU would be a dissapointment.

 

Morgantown Regional

West Virginia over LA Monroe

Wofford over Farleigh Dickinson

 

West Virginia over Wofford

 

Again, no one should challenge the host school West Virginia in Morgantown. The big men of WVA will prove to be too much for these low-majors. Expect the Mountaineers to put on 20+ point victories in both games.

 

Iowa City Regional

Iowa over UMES

Colgate over Utah Valley State

 

Iowa over Colgate

 

Although Colgate has the chance to be decent in a surprisingly decent Patriot League, don't look for them to give the Hawkeyes any trouble. The host school will again role with big victories in each game. UMES and UVST shouldn't give any problems in either of their opening games.

 

Lexington Regional

Kentucky over South Dakota State

Libscomb over Nothern Colorado

 

Kentucky over Libscomb

 

Kentucky should make it 4-0 for the host schools and do it pretty easily. SDST and N. Colorado are both Provisional Independents while Libscomb is nothing more than a middle of the pack Atlantic Sun team.

 

Championshiop Rounds

Iowa over Kentucky

 

Honestly, I'm having a really tough time picking a winner here. This one can certainly go either way. In the end though, I expect Iowa to win simply because they return their whole roster and will be more in sync at the beginning of the season than most other teams. Iowa also has had some decent performances in preseason tournaments in years past. The experianced Horner vs. the quicker Rondo is a match-up to watch.

 

Texas over West Virginia

 

I'm not entirely sure Pittsnoggle and WVA can carry over the Elite 8 magic to this year. They won't have the depth or amount of scorers to overcome Texas' balanced attack. Look for Gibson to have a big game over WVA's limited guard in the win.

 

Kentucky over West Virginia

 

Once again WVA won't have the guard play to match-up with Rondo and Patrick Sparks of Kentucky. UK, though, won't have much too match up with Pittsnoggle. They cannot afford for him to go off.

 

 

Iowa over Texas

 

You know what, I'll just go out and say it: I believe Texas is overrated. I don't know why with the loss of 2 starters, this middle-of-the-pack Big 12 team is all of the sudden one of the 3 or 4 elite teams in the nation. I just don't buy it. They are very balanced, however. Again Horner will have the task of guarding a faster, less experienced Point-guard. It should bring another inteesting match-up with Horner actually prevailing. I like Iowa in a decently close game.

[Palehosefan]

I don't know why with the loss of 2 starters, this middle-of-the-pack Big 12 team is all of the sudden one of the 3 or 4 elite teams in the nation. I just don't buy it.

 

Don't forget that both PJ Tucker and Lemarcus Aldridge were out for the 2nd half o the year for UT. They both were starting before they went down, so you can make an argument that Texas has 4 returning starters with Gibson, Buckman, Tucker, and Aldridge coming back. But their complete lack of proven depth could really bite them in the ass in the end.

 

As for Kentucky, I've been hearing that Morris might end up with a 8 game suspension and will be allowed to return to UK. So you might want to get them early if you are going to get them. Thankfully UNC gets them in their 4th game.