Jerry Owens

[RockRaines]

Difference is, Owens is what 3 years older and even though it was his 1st full season, he should be putting up numbers around that mark (probably a little below) like that at his age for a 2nd round pick.

 

Let's see how he does in Charlotte, a ballpark not as big, before we anoint him our next lead-off man.

He has every piece of the lead off man that fits our ball club. Singles hitter, high OBP, speed. I think he should be the next in line, which is good because its hard to find players like PODS.

[Randar68]

Difference is, Owens is what 3 years older and even though it was his 1st full season, he should be putting up numbers around that mark (probably a little below) like that at his age for a 2nd round pick.

 

Let's see how he does in Charlotte, a ballpark not as big, before we anoint him our next lead-off man.

 

LOL... I have never figured out why age is such a boner-causing issue for some people. Care to look at his level of experience? What his background is? The guy took 3 years away from the game, 3 crucial years in a player's development, and came back to be drafted after playing in a nothing baseball program for just 2 years. Then, in just his 2nd professional season, he hits .330 in AA, making the jump from Low-A... It's not like he is hitting for power because he's physically superior to his competition because of being older and experience is not an issue either. Who cares if he's 28 years old if this is just his 2nd season in professional baseball after not playing it at all for 3 years?

 

Chris Young has been in our system playing professional ball for what just concluded his 4th full year within our system, and made the same jump in levels, yet is lauded over and over...

 

There is nothing NOT to be excited about here, guys.

 

Oh yeah, here is what BA said about him when drafted. Nothin in his performance has done anything to diminish those projections, IMO:

 

Scouting Report: In an age of sophisticated scouting, Owens is the rare college player who was on no one's radar at the start of the year but has emerged as a possible late first-round pick. For many, he's become the best college prospect on the west coast. A former wide receiver at UCLA who was projected to be a starter, Owens transferred to The Master's College two years ago--in part to deepen his faith, in part because he didn't want to get hurt playing football (he'd already red-shirted one season with a broken foot), and in part because he wanted to resume a baseball career abandoned since high school. Initially, he wanted to be a pitcher but it was apparent his blazing speed would be wasted at that position. In his first year back, the 6-foot-3, 190-pound Owens hit a modest .330 but he turned it up this year, hitting .451-6-31. He also learned how to utilize his speed at the plate and on the bases. He's been timed at a rapid 3.85 seconds to first base and stole 30 bases. Primarily a left fielder in college, Owens will soon land in center field, where his speed will be maximized. He projects along the lines of Kenny Lofton or Tom Goodwin.

Edited October 19, 2005 by Randar68

[GoodAsGould]

Difference is, Owens is what 3 years older and even though it was his 1st full season, he should be putting up numbers around that mark (probably a little below) like that at his age for a 2nd round pick.

 

Let's see how he does in Charlotte, a ballpark not as big, before we anoint him our next lead-off man.

 

If he has less experiance than Chris Young what does age have anything to do with it? Experiance > Age and Owens doesnt have much of it so like I said putting up those numbers is more amazing than people give him credit for.

[aboz56]

Totally unrelated note, but Brandon Wood (SS for Angels) hit 4 HR's in his debut in the AFL (at least thats what I heard someone say).

Orlando Cabrera, your plane will be boarding soon... (If they can find someone to take that albatross contract)

[Rowand44]

Orlando Cabrera, your plane will be boarding soon...  (If they can find someone to take that albatross contract)

I know he can live with anthrax if needed.

[Rowand44]

If he has less experiance than Chris Young what does age have anything to do with it?  Experiance > Age and Owens doesnt have much of it so like I said putting up those numbers is more amazing than people give him credit for.

I agree with this, I haven't seen Jerry play so I won't make any final conclusions on him but his numbers are damn impressive and all I heard coming into this season is the guy is a great athlete but is raw as hell...well if this is what he's like when raw lets see how he does with some experience under his belt. Keith, I think the difference between his average and obp is just fine but that's just me. I'm really interested to watch this guy play a few times, he really intrigues me cause like rock said these type of players are hard to find.

[DBAHO]

LOL...  I have never figured out why age is such a boner-causing issue for some people.  Care to look at his level of experience?  What his background is?  The guy took 3 years away from the game, 3 crucial years in a player's development, and came back to be drafted after playing in a nothing baseball program for just 2 years.  Then, in just his 2nd professional season, he hits .330 in AA, making the jump from Low-A...  It's not like he is hitting for power because he's physically superior to his competition because of being older and experience is not an issue either.  Who cares if he's 28 years old if this is just his 2nd season in professional baseball after not playing it at all for 3 years?

 

Chris Young has been in our system playing professional ball for what just concluded his 4th full year within our system, and made the same jump in levels, yet is lauded over and over...

 

There is nothing NOT to be excited about here, guys.

 

Oh yeah, here is what BA said about him when drafted.  Nothin in his performance has done anything to diminish those projections, IMO:

Fair enough. The difference b/w Young and Owens though, is that Young has a lot more tools than Owens. If Owens was 28 and he did this in his 2nd year of baseball, would people still think of him as the same prospect? I know Scott Podsednik came out of the blue, but it's not really the norm.

 

I just want to see how Owens does in Charlotte next season in a smaller ballpark before he automatically becomes our next leadoff hitter. He may not even get a spot in our OF with Anderson, Sweeney and Young around. It's a very muddled picture right now.

[GoodAsGould]

Fair enough. The difference b/w Young and Owens though, is that Young has a lot more tools than Owens. If Owens was 28 and he did this in his 2nd year of baseball, would people still think of him as the same prospect? I know Scott Podsednik came out of the blue, but it's not really the norm.

 

I just want to see how Owens does in Charlotte next season in a smaller ballpark before he automatically becomes our next leadoff hitter. He may not even get a spot in our OF with Anderson, Sweeney and Young around. It's a very muddled picture right now.

 

Well I think Sweeney could use 2 more years in the minors while if they keep up the current rate that they are on Owens and Young should make a case for the team in 2007.

[Balta1701]

Well I think Sweeney could use 2 more years in the minors while if they keep up the current rate that they are on Owens and Young should make a case for the team in 2007.

Which, conveniently, is the year that Jermaine Dye's contract will only have a team option for.

[GoodAsGould]

Which, conveniently, is the year that Jermaine Dye's contract will only have a team option for.

 

Well we are getting ahead of ourselves here though... its not even a sure thing 1 of these guys makes it and lasts in the big leagues.... although watching all 4 of them Anderson, Young, Sweeney, and Owens is for sure exciting.

 

One guy im hoping takes a big step next season is that Sanchez guy we have in rookie ball. I remember hearing a lot of great things about him early in the season but he kind of sucked during the season.

[DBAHO]

Well we are getting ahead of ourselves here though... its not even a sure thing 1 of these guys makes it and lasts in the big leagues.... although watching all 4 of them Anderson, Young, Sweeney, and Owens is for sure exciting.

 

One guy im hoping takes a big step next season is that Sanchez guy we have in rookie ball.  I remember hearing a lot of great things about him early in the season but he kind of sucked during the season.

To be fair to Salvador it was his first season of minor league ball. Depending on where he starts next season (Kanny, Great Falls or Bristol), I think we'll see an improvement in his numbers. IIRC Dan said his stats reminded him a lot of Chris Young's.

 

Either way, hopefully the Sox's minor league scouting in the Dominican Republic pays dividends in the future.

[Randar68]

Fair enough. The difference b/w Young and Owens though, is that Young has a lot more tools than Owens. If Owens was 28 and he did this in his 2nd year of baseball, would people still think of him as the same prospect? I know Scott Podsednik came out of the blue, but it's not really the norm.

 

I just want to see how Owens does in Charlotte next season in a smaller ballpark before he automatically becomes our next leadoff hitter. He may not even get a spot in our OF with Anderson, Sweeney and Young around. It's a very muddled picture right now.

 

 

Yet he's nowhere near that old. People can make all the age excuses they want about why it should weigh so heavily, but if a guy is legitimately inexperienced and is not dominating a level of competition based on his physical maturity, what the hell is the difference how old he is?

 

We all get excited by the plethora of OF prospects, but please tell me who is going to be hitting #1 and #2 on that team... Good leadoff hitters are CRUCIAL parts of the puzzle... you can't put players together with total disregard for how the pieces fit together...

[DBAHO]

Yet he's nowhere near that old.  People can make all the age excuses they want about why it should weigh so heavily, but if a guy is legitimately inexperienced and is not dominating a level of competition based on his physical maturity, what the hell is the difference how old he is?

 

We all get excited by the plethora of OF prospects, but please tell me who is going to be hitting #1 and #2 on that team...  Good leadoff hitters are CRUCIAL parts of the puzzle... you can't put players together with total disregard for how the pieces fit together...

I shouldn't have stated about Owens' age, the norm is that a 23 year old OF should be dominating in AA, if he's had minor league experience, and Owens hasn't, so that made his performance the better.

 

I'd say right now, there's a few guys on this team who could hit 1 or 2. I'd always thought Rowand if they stuck with him in CF, could hit in either position, if he shortened up his swing. Iguchi could still hit in the #2 hole, and then there's FA options. Pods could still be around in the future, so we don't know yet.

 

Owens could be a good leadoff hitter, but it depends on how well he could hit at the MLB level, otherwise he's probably not going to be anything more than a very good 4th OF. He still needs to improve stealing the bases (20 CS out of 58), and is he going to continue to good K/BB ratio which will be all important?

 

It could depend if Ozzie's still the manager. Ozzie knows how important it is to have a good leadoff hitter, but if he's gone, will the next manager put such a high emphasis on getting a good one?

[RockRaines]

I know he can live with anthrax if needed.

[Randar68]

I'd say right now, there's a few guys on this team who could hit 1 or 2. I'd always thought Rowand if they stuck with him in CF, could hit in either position, if he shortened up his swing. Iguchi could still hit in the #2 hole, and then there's FA options. Pods could still be around in the future, so we don't know yet.

 

BWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

The Aaron Rowand with the career 310:96 K:BB ratio who can't bunt and K's well over 100 times a year????

 

That Aaron Rowand??? A #1 or #2 hitter???? yeah, ok... :rolly

[CWSGuy406]

Yet he's nowhere near that old.  People can make all the age excuses they want about why it should weigh so heavily, but if a guy is legitimately inexperienced and is not dominating a level of competition based on his physical maturity, what the hell is the difference how old he is?

 

We all get excited by the plethora of OF prospects, but please tell me who is going to be hitting #1 and #2 on that team...  Good leadoff hitters are CRUCIAL parts of the puzzle... you can't put players together with total disregard for how the pieces fit together...

 

And, since Owens isn't likely to hit .330 in the majors -- more like, .270-.310, that's going to bring his OBP down, and his slugging down. If he develops power, fine, but -- and this is where our opinions differ -- I'm not a huge fan of the Scott Podsednik-like, .290/.350/.360 guys. I can deal with it if the OBP is closer to .380/.390 -- and if Owens can do that, great -- but I don't know if he'll be able to. We shall see.

[Randar68]

And, since Owens isn't likely to hit .330 in the majors -- more like, .270-.310, that's going to bring his OBP down, and his slugging down.  If he develops power, fine, but -- and this is where our opinions differ -- I'm not a huge fan of the Scott Podsednik-like, .290/.350/.360 guys.  I can deal with it if the OBP is closer to .380/.390 -- and if Owens can do that, great -- but I don't know if he'll be able to.  We shall see.

 

Here is the AL OBP stats...

 

American League OBP stats

 

Brian Roberts is about the only guy in a career year. Damon and Lugo at .366 and .362 respectively... Figgins and Pods at .351 and .350...

 

We have a leadoff hitter for the first time since Lance Johnson and people are ready to ship him out of town because he doesn't hit for enough power or some other kind of stat-geek reason that makes utterly no sense.

 

Sorry, guys, but being a disruptive force like Eckstein, Figgins, Podsednik... THAT is the name of the game at the top of the order. Look at all the good leadoff hitters in the game... almost all of them were in the playoffs...

 

Damon, Eckstein, Pods, Figgins, Furcal... those guys are major disruptions to the pitcher and defense (Damon to a lesser extent than the other 3), but you get my point, I hope...

 

You can't just plug numbers into a role and expect it to come out as the "best option"... you have to consider what role that player will have in the context of the entire order...

[CWSGuy406]

We have a leadoff hitter for the first time since Lance Johnson and people are ready to ship him out of town because he doesn't hit for enough power or some other kind of stat-geek reason that makes utterly no sense.

 

Sorry, guys, but being a disruptive force like Eckstein, Figgins, Podsednik... THAT is the name of the game at the top of the order.  Look at all the good leadoff hitters in the game...  almost all of them were in the playoffs...

 

Damon, Eckstein, Pods, Figgins, Furcal...  those guys are major disruptions to the pitcher and defense (Damon to a lesser extent than the other 3), but you get my point, I hope...

 

You can't just plug numbers into a role and expect it to come out as the "best option"...  you have to consider what role that player will have in the context of the entire order...

 

Well, if Podsednik is making the minimum, that's fine, but pretty soon he's going to command a raise, and sorry, I don't think it's worth a whole lot more than $1.5-2 million

 

Of course, it's pointless arguing with you -- I'll bring up a stat, and it'll be, "Oh, stat geek, stat geek".

 

So I'll leave it at this -- I don't think Podsednik is that great. I'm happy about what he did this season -- and my only complaint really is that he should have been shut down on the basepaths down the stretch, when it was clear that he was still injured and wasn't getting good jumps/running right. I hope that going into the off-season, management realizes that our offense needs a heckuva lot of improvement. That's not to say Podsednik was the reason for our mediocre/average offense, but I think the spot can be improved -- and I'd gladly put Iguchi in the leadoff spot.

[3E8]

Sorry, guys, but being a disruptive force like Eckstein, Figgins, Podsednik... THAT is the name of the game at the top of the order.  Look at all the good leadoff hitters in the game...  almost all of them were in the playoffs...

 

 

Ichiro, Brady Clark, Brian Roberts, Brad Wilkerson, Carl Crawford, David DeJesus, etc... But yeah, almost all the good leadoff hitters in the game made the playoffs. If by almost all you mean less than half.

:rolly

 

There are at least 15 better leadoff hitters in the game than Podsednik, especially when he's running with a CS% over 50.

[Rowand44]

Ichiro, Brady Clark, Brian Roberts, Brad Wilkerson, Carl Crawford, David DeJesus, etc...  But yeah, almost all the good leadoff hitters in the game made the playoffs.  If by almost all you mean less than half.

:rolly

 

There are at least 15 better leadoff hitters in the game than Podsednik, especially when he's running with a CS% over 50.

According to what? Win shares?? There aren't to many other guys I'd rather have leading off then scott, this team went down the f***in tubes when he was out.

[3E8]

According to what?  Win shares??  There aren't to many other guys I'd rather have leading off then scott, this team went down the f***in tubes when he was out.

No. If I were using win shares, it'd be even uglier. Just look at the leadoff hitter for every team in MLB and objectively ask yourself, would we be better off with this guy over Pods? I think you'll be surprised.

 

No one can prove that Pod's DL stint is solely what caused us to perform at a lower level. It was probably a combination of several things like enduring a much more difficult schedule, underperformance of the starting pitching staff, along with Pods not being in the lineup.

[DBAHO]

According to what?  Win shares??  There aren't to many other guys I'd rather have leading off then scott, this team went down the f***in tubes when he was out.

They may also have been due to the Sox not getting the same pitching as the 1st half of the season.

[Rowand44]

They may also have been due to the Sox not getting the same pitching as the 1st half of the season.

Correct, I shouldn't have made it sound like that was only because of scott but I think highly of him for various reasons, there really aren't to many other leadoff hitters I would rather have.

[DBAHO]

Correct, I shouldn't have made it sound like that was only because of scott but I think highly of him for various reasons, there really aren't to many other leadoff hitters I would rather have.

Well it would depend on where the leadoff hitter played. I would easily take a Furcal over Pods because he's such a great defensive shortstop, but will have the same impact offensively as Pods with a little more pop.

 

A guy like Figgins can play multiple positions for you, and although he had a terible post-season, I'm sure lots of teams would love to have him.

 

Everyone knows that Pods makes a great impact with his OBP and stealing the bases disrupting the pitchers etc. It's his poor reads on defense, and his un-clutchiness with RISP that get people annoyed with him.

[witesoxfan]

Owens could be a good leadoff hitter, but it depends on how well he could hit at the MLB level, otherwise he's probably not going to be anything more than a very good 4th OF.

 

 

It's a valid point...just a very, very obvious one. Just figured I'd give you a hard time.