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Jerry Owens


southsideirish71

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QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Oct 21, 2005 -> 09:45 PM)
No -- where did I say that a hitter should go up, looking to swing out of his shoes just so he can knock one in the seats?  I didn't...

 

But, the best outcome in any given AB is a homerun -- it guarantees you a run.

Well I was under the assumption that you felt a batter should do the best he can do in an at-bat everytime he goes up to the plate.

 

I guess I was wrong with that assumption.

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QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Oct 22, 2005 -> 03:29 AM)
Well I was under the assumption that you felt a batter should do the best he can do in an at-bat everytime he goes up to the plate.

 

I guess I was wrong with that assumption.

 

Well, if you're swinging out of your shoes for the fences every AB, I don't think that's doing your best, or giving your best effort.

 

I don't see what this has to do with my point, though. The best outcome to an AB for a hitter in ANY given AB is a homer, which is true. It is what it is -- I'm not trying to think below the surface or anything here, i.e. hitter's mindset, whatever...

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QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Oct 21, 2005 -> 09:54 PM)
I dont think the debate is whose better Podsenick or Sizemore its whose the better leadoff man... and simply put if they were on the same team Podsenick would bat leadoff and Sizemore 2nd....

The debate is if you could choose one or the other to leadoff for your team, who would you choose?

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QUOTE(3E8 @ Oct 22, 2005 -> 01:57 PM)
The debate is if you could choose one or the other to leadoff for your team, who would you choose?

But you've got to remember, Sizemore is much better with the aspects of play that Podsednik is weak in, such as his ability to play any spot in the outfield, and his .300 with RISP compared to Pods' .237.

 

As randar mentioned, the 132 K's aren't good. But it was Grady's 1st full season in the majors, and that number should come down in the future. His .348 OBP is still quite good with those amount of K's and only 0.03 less than Pods' OBP.

 

And since Sizemore won't be arbitration eligible for a few years, plus he's far younger than Pods, looking at all of the aspects, I choose Sizemore. Yeah Pods is probably a better leadoff hitter, but when you look at the other things, I think Sizemore comes out on top, but it's an interesting argument.

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QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Oct 21, 2005 -> 05:06 PM)
Ok -- are you trying to tell me homeruns, the best thing that a hitter can do in a given AB, are bad?  I'll take homers wherever they come in the lineup, and it's even better when you can get them from a guy who also has a .348 OBP. 

Ok, so now it's if both were on the same team...  Flip, flop, flip, flop.

 

If I had to choose one or the other to be my leadoff man of my team, I choose Sizemore.  Pretty easy call for me.

Offensive contributions?  Umm, well, when comparing Scott Podsednik and Grady Sizemore, I see that they're AVG and OBP are similar, while Sizemore slugs over 130 more than Podsednik does.  But right -- Scotty makes the pitcher throw over a couple times, and he steals bases, so he's the better leadoff hitter. 

 

Instant offense with a homer?  Nah, I'll take the single, and then the possibility that Podsednik might steal a base, and all the while, put pressure on the defense.  Because, a homer doesn't put any pressure on the defense -- it puts a run on the board, but who gives a damn, right?  :rolly

 

You calling someone ignorant...  that's funny.

 

Turn the SB's into X-base hits and CS into outs and come back again with those numbers... who's ignorant? That's what I thought... Then again, you can't measure it, so it doesn't exist... Say hello to Carl Everett in church on Sunday, hanks!

 

Of course those extra 69:18 SB ratio doesn't equate at all to extra base-hits, does it?

 

If Pods stays healthy, he steals 80 bases at an80% rate or above and is one of the top 5 or 6 leadoff men in the entire game...

 

but hey, I guess win shares and OPS+ doesn't show that, so it can't possibly be true... :bringit

Edited by Randar68
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QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Oct 21, 2005 -> 11:17 PM)
Than its obviously Podsenick.  If your asking who the better leadoff hitter is... if your asking for the better hitter than its Sizemore.

 

 

BINGO!

 

 

Sheesh... it ain't rocket science... if they're both on your team, who bats leadoff? Doesn't that define who the better leadoff hitter is?

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QUOTE(Randar68 @ Oct 21, 2005 -> 05:27 PM)
You're right, Sizemore's solo HR's (15 of his 22)

 

Can I ask, just because I'm a little buzzed right now and because I really don't have the time right now to do the research, how many of those homers led off the inning? Be it 1st inning, 4th inning, 6th inning, whatever inning...because I'm just curious.

 

Last time I checked...you couldn't hit any more than a solo homer to leadoff an inning...so I'm just wondering.

Edited by witesoxfan
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QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Oct 22, 2005 -> 05:29 AM)
Can I ask, just because I'm a little buzzed right now and because I really don't have the time right now to do the research, how many of those homers led off the inning?  Be it 1st inning, 4th inning, 6th inning, whatever inning...because I'm just curious.

 

Last time I checked...you couldn't hit any more than a solo homer to leadoff an inning...so I'm just wondering.

 

I decided to do the research after all. Of Sizemore's 15 solo homers, 8 led off an inning. Also, his 20th homer of the year was the second shot of back-to-back homers...with no outs in the inning.

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Jesus, did this thread get off track. Without getting into too much detail...

 

Pods> anyone we could actually get to bat leadoff

 

Furcal and Pierre are FA's in the coming years, but at a much higher cost than Pods, who will probably have similar production.

 

Sizemore> Pods, but who cares since we can't get him?

 

I don't really think you can argue that Pods is a better all-around hitter.

 

Pods is better suited to bat leadoff, and Sizemore will probably be batting 3rd in a couple of years. Sizemore has more value as an RBI guy than as a table setter. He'd also be a good fit hitting #2 on a very good offensive team. In a pinch he can bat leadoff, but like Jeter, Crawford, and probably Damon, there is a good chance it would hurt their production. Any of those guys on the last list are probably best suited to bat second, and would put up monster numbers on a weak team hitting 3rd. Batting them leadoff seems to be a bit of a waste of their abilities to me.

 

Let's worry about finding places for all of these prospects in a couple of years when they've actually done something at the major league level. Speculating whether Pods, Dye, or Rowand is still in the outfield for the 2007 season is pretty asanine right now because we have no idea what is going to happen with any of those guys or Anderson, Young, Owens, and Sweeney. Anyone of them could get hurt or start sucking, any one of them can come out and have an excellent year. Any one of them can do the exact same thing they are doing now, with little to no progress.

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QUOTE(fathom @ Oct 25, 2005 -> 02:45 PM)
Even if he doesn't have a place in our loaded outfield, he could end up being another valuable trade chip.

I still think that Either Sweeney or Anderson get moved, but thats my take. The odds are that at least one of these guys wont make it, so I think the problem will solve itself. But right now, Owens looks pretty cant miss.

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QUOTE(RockRaines @ Oct 25, 2005 -> 03:43 PM)
I still think that Either Sweeney or Anderson get moved, but thats my take.  The odds are that at least one of these guys wont make it, so I think the problem will solve itself.  But right now, Owens looks pretty cant miss.

 

They may move Anderson in a couple years but he is possibly KW's favorite player. Anyone notice Aaron Rowand's offense against good pitching in the playoffs?

 

I'm not upset, we're going to win this thing without leaving Houston, but Aaron Rowand is not going to be the starting CF'er in 2006.

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QUOTE(Randar68 @ Oct 26, 2005 -> 09:58 AM)
They may move Anderson in a couple years but he is possibly KW's favorite player.  Anyone notice Aaron Rowand's offense against good pitching in the playoffs? 

 

I'm not upset, we're going to win this thing without leaving Houston, but Aaron Rowand is not going to be the starting CF'er in 2006.

 

So you are suggesting trading Rowand at a very low value, perhaps the lowest he's ever had?

 

His defense brings up his value slightly, especially doing it in New York in the media spotlight...but a .736 OPS over a full season brings his value down tremendously. His net value is down.

 

From what I have seen from Rowand in the playoffs, he is trying to pull EVERYTHING. Being a pull hitter is fine and dandy, if you are a 30-40 homer guy, or you are just gifted enough to be able to be a pull hitter and still put up a good OPS. There are very few hitters in the majors that can succeed like that...Rowand is one of the majority.

 

He needs to go back to hitting to all fields, like in 2004. Hit that outside pitch the other way for base hits, hit balls up the middle...hit balls everywhere. If he can go back to doing that, he'll, at the very least, increase his OPS into the .800-.850 range, which will atleast bring up his value as a trading chip.

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QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Oct 26, 2005 -> 01:45 PM)
He needs to go back to hitting to all fields, like in 2004.  Hit that outside pitch the other way for base hits, hit balls up the middle...hit balls everywhere.  If he can go back to doing that, he'll, at the very least, increase his OPS into the .800-.850 range, which will atleast bring up his value as a trading chip.

 

They've been throwing him inside all day for 2 months and showing that low breaking ball in the dirt over the outter half of the plate...

 

He hasn't adjusted and looks worse than terrible for a while now...

 

Make him your 4th OF'er next year. Late-inning defensive replacement for Pods...

 

Again, you could trade him and find some value, maybe not, but he will make around 3.5 million next year and that is money better spent elsewhere on Pauly, a #3 hitter, etc...

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I hope Rowand is traded and that was b4 the playoffs. Now after it when he has been abused in each series by the opposing pitchers I hope its more obvious to the rest of you. I like him as a player but right now I care about the team more and if Rowand can help us land a Chad Tracy or Lyle Overbay incase Konerko is gone id do it.

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QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Oct 26, 2005 -> 03:26 PM)
I hope Rowand is traded and that was b4 the playoffs.  Now after it when he has been abused in each series by the opposing pitchers I hope its more obvious to the rest of you.  I like him as a player but right now I care about the team more and if Rowand can help us land a Chad Tracy or Lyle Overbay incase Konerko is gone id do it.

You know what though, teams loving getting players from teams that were in the WS or win it. It adds to their value. Alot of those teams get poached because everyone thinks that they are contributors. I would think A-rows value is high right now. The only problem is that he is best friends with AJP and Crede, and I really dont want to split them up yet.

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QUOTE(RockRaines @ Oct 26, 2005 -> 08:48 PM)
You know what though, teams loving getting players from teams that were in the WS or win it.  It adds to their value.  Alot of those teams get poached because everyone thinks that they are contributors.  I would think A-rows value is high right now.  The only problem is that he is best friends with AJP and Crede, and I really dont want to split them up yet.

 

 

Yeah I considered that.... That would be the only thing which would make me hesitant to pull the trade..... Although I guess Anderson can play all 3 OF spots and get in most games that way i wouldnt suggest it.

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I wouldn't think about trading Aaron. Once again, he's getting way under-valued, imo. People have too high of expectations for Anderson, at least right away, and quite frankly, Anderson won't touch Aaron defensively and thats not a knock on Anderson.

 

Aaron Rowand = A White Sox and he's not going to be going anywhere, you can take that to the bank.

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QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Oct 27, 2005 -> 06:06 PM)
I wouldn't think about trading Aaron.  Once again, he's getting way under-valued, imo.  People have too high of expectations for Anderson, at least right away, and quite frankly, Anderson won't touch Aaron defensively and thats not a knock on Anderson. 

 

Aaron Rowand = A White Sox and he's not going to be going anywhere, you can take that to the bank.

I highly agree.

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