Jerry Owens

[fathom]

You've got to get more than a lefty reliever for Rowand.  I wouldn't mind the Sox packaging Rowand and El Duque to pick up Aubrey Huff + a reliever from Tampa.

 

Tampa would laugh in our face at that deal. They already have a plethora of young outfielders, and they're not going to trade their main bargaining chip for two below average players.

[Chisoxrd5]

You've got to get more than a lefty reliever for Rowand.  I wouldn't mind the Sox packaging Rowand and El Duque to pick up Aubrey Huff + a reliever from Tampa.

 

Is this the same Tampa Bay that can never make a trade during the Trade Deadline because they overvalue all of their players? Yet they are going to trade Huff and a reliever for Rowand and El Duque...funny stuff

[fathom]

Is this the same Tampa Bay that can never make a trade during the Trade Deadline because they overvalue all of their players? Yet they are going to trade Huff and a reliever for Rowand and El Duque...funny stuff

 

They do have a new General Manager, but unless that GM is a 3 yr old girl, I don't think anyone on this planet would do that trade.

[BlackBetsy]

They do have a new General Manager, but unless that GM is a 3 yr old girl, I don't think anyone on this planet would do that trade.

Except for the fact that Huff is in the last season of his contract and his value will go down every day during the season. He won't get much more than a prospect in a deadline deal. No way does Huff return to TB after 2006.

 

Very rarely do you get a starting pitcher and a player who plays a premium defensive position for a DH type.

[fathom]

Except for the fact that Huff is in the last season of his contract and his value will go down every day during the season.  He won't get much more than a prospect in a deadline deal.  No way does Huff return to TB after 2006.

 

Very rarely do you get a starting pitcher and a player who plays a premium defensive position for a DH type.

 

If all they're asking for is a mediocre starting pitcher with a pretty big sized contract and injury history, as well as a below average hitting CF....then every team in baseball will be in the market to get Huff. The last thing the DRays are going to try to get is an outfielder in exchange for Huff. What good would getting Duque do for them? They're not going to try and compete for next year. They'd want a starting pitcher who's young and that they can have for a handful of years prior to free agency.

[beck72]

Anderson is the better player, that's why you play him. Reason #1.  Rowand makes 3.25 million.  Anderson makes the minimum.  Reason #2!  Anderson has the higher ceiling.  Reason #3.  KW loves Anderson.  Reason #4!

 

Anderson is ready for the majors right now.  Young, Sweeney, Owens, all a year or more away.

 

I understand the money aspect of putting Anderson in there. Though Rowand isn't making that much money and that wouldn't play that big a role in any deal.

 

As far as Anderson being the better player, or if KW has the man love for him you say, time will tell. I haven't seen Anderson play. But I have a hard time believing the sox will trade away a sure thing like Rowand--above average defender, solid .290 hitter with speed [15 + sb's a yr] and power--and let a AAA prospect take over for him.

 

Esp. as Anderson doesn't project to be that big of an improvement over Rowand. Most scouts have Anderson tagged as a .290 hitter with some above average OF defense.

[Randar68]

I understand the money aspect of putting Anderson in there. Though Rowand isn't making that much money and that wouldn't play that big a role in any deal.

 

As far as Anderson being the better player, or if KW has the man love for him you say, time will tell. I haven't seen Anderson play. But I have a hard time believing the sox will trade away a sure thing like Rowand--above average defender, solid .290 hitter with speed  [15 + sb's a yr] and power--and let a AAA prospect take over for him.

 

Esp. as Anderson doesn't project to be that big of an improvement over Rowand. Most scouts have Anderson tagged as a .290 hitter with some above average OF defense.

 

Anderson has much better power potential, and Rowand has been a career .750-.800 OPS player save a very outlier 2004 season of .905 OPS. I'd hardly call a <.800 ops of a power hitter. he bottom the order hitter which is exactly why you take this opportunity to develop anderson since does not degrade your defense and has higher ceiling...>

 

And, as I've said before, KW loves the kid. His face has been everywhere the past 2 months... coincidence? Just gotta learn how to read the tea leaves.

[CWSGuy406]

What is the market for a .750 OPS defensive CF'er who hits in the 7/8/9 spot?

 

For one of the best defensive CFers in all of baseball? Honestly, there's probably only a handfull of guys who are better defensively than Aaron. I'll say there's a good market for him. His career OPS, BTW, is closer to .800 than it is to .750.

 

$3.25 million isn't a lot of money when it's someone else's money.  The difference between Rowand and Anderson is almost 3 million dollars.  You're telling me you couldn't use that to upgrade other positions in need of upgrade?

 

I certainly don't disagree with that. But, I also don't think you should just flip him off for a LOOGY -- a guy who'll barely pitch 40 innings a year. His value is certainly higher than that.

 

I don't think you're understanding me. I'm not adverse at all to trading Rowand. And, I don't think Anderson is a downgrade from Rowand.

 

Where I seem to disagree with you is: I don't think the Sox should feel 'forced' to trade Rowand. Meaning, if they aren't getting a good package coming back their way for him, they shouldn't deal him. Period.

 

But that's just me.

 

 

BTW -- this is the Jerry Owens thread, so here's his ZiPS projection -- 288/344/347. That's pretty good. Of course, nothing is set in stone, but if Rowand is traded, I hope Owens makes the team -- he can spell Anderson and Podsednik on occasion.

[Heads22]

This ZIPS guy also have people that left the organization at the beginning of 05, such as Pacheco and Villacis. Some research on his part would be nice, too.

[Randar68]

For one of the best defensive CFers in all of baseball?  Honestly, there's probably only a handfull of guys who are better defensively than Aaron.  I'll say there's a good market for him.  His career OPS, BTW, is closer to .800 than it is to .750. 

I certainly don't disagree with that.  But, I also don't think you should just flip him off for a LOOGY -- a guy who'll barely pitch 40 innings a year.  His value is certainly higher than that. 

 

I don't think you're understanding me.  I'm not adverse at all to trading Rowand.  And, I don't think Anderson is a downgrade from Rowand. 

 

Where I seem to disagree with you is:  I don't think the Sox should feel 'forced' to trade Rowand.  Meaning, if they aren't getting a good package coming back their way for him, they shouldn't deal him.  Period.

 

But that's just me.

BTW -- this is the Jerry Owens thread, so here's his ZiPS projection -- 288/344/347.  That's pretty good.  Of course, nothing is set in stone, but if Rowand is traded, I hope Owens makes the team -- he can spell Anderson and Podsednik on occasion.

 

That's fair, but someone previously mentioned Rowand being the centerpiece for a Dunn or Delgado or some trade of that sort. Rowand just isn't taht valuable. He is a defensive CF'er that will be making 5 million dollars in 2007. Defensive specialists just don't make that kind of coin and that affects his trade value. If the Sox trade him, they get 3 million in salary relief in 2006, 5 million in 2007, and getting a Loogy allows them to dump Marte and his 2+ million dollar contract. Money is the biggest factor in this, and that equates to around 5 million in savings for 2006 and more that that in 2007. That money alone is the difference between Uribe and what Furcal will be making in those seasons, in all likelihood. May not seem like a lot, and it may seem like they aren't getting market value for some of those players, but just like the Carlos Lee trade, it has a waterfall effect that is extremely valuable to the organization in filling holes in the 3/4 spots.

[Randar68]

While this thread has basically turned into an  Aaron Rowand discussion, I just wanted to state how nice of a move Jerry Owens was. Picking up Alex Escobar off of waivers, then trading him to Washington for Owens. Nice work Kenny.

 

Yep, even if Owens doesn't make it or get's traded, it was a great move in terms of getting a valuable tradeable commodity for an injury-prone roster-filler. Buy low, sell high, and trust your scouting department. This move is one of many recent moves that highlights the real quality organization KW has created.

[sayitaintso]

So what is Owens' current stats and where do you find them at?

[Chisoxfn]

I know I've said it a few times around here, but I need to reiterate the fact that I think the best thing for Brian Anderson is another 6 months of AAA. If this were the Pirates or Drays, sure, I'd give him a starting job and let him grow into things, but at this point, I dont' think he'd be an asset and I think he still has a lot to learn in the minors.

 

Lord knows I've never been as high on Anderson as some around these parts, but at the same time, I do think he has a lot of talent. However, he still has a rather rough swing that still needs improvement and more importantly more ab's in the minors won't hurt him at all.

 

If he were to play in the majors, I'd want him up, ocassionally giving Aaron, Dye, and Pods a day off (that should be 2 starts a week) and than giving the DH a week off from time to time. I think you could get him 3 starts a week and while thats not great, it would be a nice thing for him to see for a full season and will help him prepare himself for 2007, which is when I think he will be a starter.

[Randar68]

I know I've said it a few times around here, but I need to reiterate the fact that I think the best thing for Brian Anderson is another 6 months of AAA.  If this were the Pirates or Drays, sure, I'd give him a starting job and let him grow into things, but at this point, I dont' think he'd be an asset and I think he still has a lot to learn in the minors.

 

Lord knows I've never been as high on Anderson as some around these parts, but at the same time, I do think he has a lot of talent.  However, he still has a rather rough swing that still needs improvement and more importantly more ab's in the minors won't hurt him at all. 

 

If he were to play in the majors, I'd want him up, ocassionally giving Aaron, Dye, and Pods a day off (that should be 2 starts a week) and than giving the DH a week off from time to time.  I think you could get him 3 starts a week and while thats not great, it would be a nice thing for him to see for a full season and will help him prepare himself for 2007, which is when I think he will be a starter.

 

And what would you do in 2007 when you're trying to break Chris Young and/or Owens and/or Sweeney into the majors?

 

If you don't play Anderson now and allow him to learn on the job a little (has always shown a propensity to adjust quickly when moved up a level) then you're setting yourself up for HUGE flux the following year. Little by little. Rowand's offense was anything but critical to the team's success this year and Anderson plays equivalent defense at worst. Why not do it now? We're not making "The kids can play Part IV" here, right?

 

You'd be expecting him to hit 8th or 9th... that's it!

[Guest JimH]

And what would you do in 2007 when you're trying to break Chris Young and/or Owens and/or Sweeney into the majors?

 

If you don't play Anderson now and allow him to learn on the job a little (has always shown a propensity to adjust quickly when moved up a level) then you're setting yourself up for HUGE flux the following year.  Little by little.  Rowand's offense was anything but critical to the team's success this year and Anderson plays equivalent defense at worst.  Why not do it now?  We're not making "The kids can play Part IV" here, right?

 

You'd be expecting him to hit 8th or 9th... that's it!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Curious ... you're advocating trading Rowand and plugging Brian Anderson in CF in his place?

[BlackBetsy]

And what would you do in 2007 when you're trying to break Chris Young and/or Owens and/or Sweeney into the majors?

 

You'd be expecting him to hit 8th or 9th... that's it!

 

OK Randar- what would you do in 2007 when Chris Young is ready, and assuming the Sox trade Rowand? Make Anderson a corner OF? Make Young a corner OF?

 

By the way, regardless of the merits, I do not foresee any possibility that KW trades the starting centerfielder and one of the most popular players (internally and with fans) on a World Champion team. Don't see it.

 

I think at this point KW is clearly heading to the point where B.A. is carried as a 4th OF to replace Timo.

[ptatc]

OK Randar- what would you do in 2007 when Chris Young is ready, and assuming the Sox trade Rowand?  Make Anderson a corner OF?  Make Young a corner OF?

 

By the way, regardless of the merits, I do not foresee any possibility that KW trades the starting centerfielder and one of the most popular players (internally and with fans) on a World Champion team.  Don't see it.

 

I think at this point KW is clearly heading to the point where B.A. is carried as a 4th OF to replace Timo.

 

While I do see the point of keeping Rowand, you are going to have to make decisions on who to keep. Garland, Crede and AJ are due big raises through arbitration. Konerko will cost alot to keep. The outfield is one plce we may have a player ready to step in and offer a cheap replacement.

 

KW has shown to guts to let popular players go (Ordonez, Valentin) in order to make the entire team better. Maybe the move is to let Konerko go but I would think about trding Rowand to keep the others.

[Randar68]

OK Randar- what would you do in 2007 when Chris Young is ready, and assuming the Sox trade Rowand?  Make Anderson a corner OF?  Make Young a corner OF?

 

By the way, regardless of the merits, I do not foresee any possibility that KW trades the starting centerfielder and one of the most popular players (internally and with fans) on a World Champion team.  Don't see it.

 

If decisions are made based on popularity and not on winning, you're going to run a losing organization. KW has NEVER acted in the manner you are indicating, especially not when he has his own draft pick is ready to supplant the guy who makes 3 million dollars more. KW's history shows that Rowand will be moved. KW's history also shows that he'll put a prospect in AAA unless they are going to play every day at the big league level.

 

Go ahead and throw all that out though, if it helps make your case.

 

I think at this point KW is clearly heading to the point where B.A. is carried as a 4th OF to replace Timo.

 

"clearly"??? Not sure how you figure that.

 

clearly

adv: without doubt or question

 

Speculation and hypothesis = clearly? interesting.

[Randar68]

Curious ... you're advocating trading Rowand and plugging Brian Anderson in CF in his place?

 

Should be pretty obvious if you read this thread.

[3E8]

I think at this point KW is clearly heading to the point where B.A. is carried as a 4th OF to replace Timo.

 

"clearly"???  Not sure how you figure that.

 

clearly

adv: without doubt or question

 

Speculation and hypothesis = clearly?  interesting.

Not one for predictions?

 

I'm not upset, we're going to win this thing without leaving Houston, but Aaron Rowand is not going to be the starting CF'er in 2006.

 

Oops.

[Randar68]

Not one for predictions?

Oops.

 

Predictions are fine, most of this thread is such. Making a hypothesis about what someone in the organization is thinking or doing and then saying that it is "clearly" what is going to happen is silly.

 

Reading Comprehension is a skill.

[3E8]

Predictions are fine, most of this thread is such.  Making a hypothesis about what someone in the organization is thinking or doing and then saying that it is "clearly" what is going to happen is silly.

 

Reading Comprehension is a skill.

I think I have a grasp on it. Let's re-examine.

 

Aaron Rowand is not going to be the starting CF'er in 2006.

 

You are hypothesizing that KW is thinking about trading Rowand and will eventually follow through with it, even though no such rumor even close to this has surfaced. In addition, you didn't leave any doubt in your statement that Rowand would not be starting in '06. BB said "[he] thinks...", which is a personal decision, right or wrong. Yet BB's statement is ludacris, while yours is perfectly fine.

Edited November 3, 2005 by 3E8

[Randar68]

I think I have a grasp on it.  Let's re-examine.

 

Aaron Rowand is not going to be the starting CF'er in 2006.

 

You are hypothesizing that KW is thinking about trading Rowand and will eventually follow through with it, even though no such rumor even close to this has surfaced. In addition, you didn't leave any doubt in your statement that Rowand would not be starting in '06. BB said "[he] thinks...", which is a personal decision, right or wrong. Yet BB's statement is ludacris, while yours is perfectly fine.

 

"I think at this point KW is clearly heading to the point where B.A. is carried as a 4th OF to replace Timo."

 

Please explain to me one thing KW has said or done past or present to indicate that this is where he's "clearly heading."

 

If you can't see the difference in the 2 statements, oh well. Like I said, comprehension is essential.

[Guest JimH]

Should be pretty obvious if you read this thread.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thanks for clarifying. It would have been just as easy to respond with, "yes, that's what I'm suggesting", but hey, that's just me.

 

You said KW's history shows that Rowand will be moved. I presume that means when KW feels a prospect is ready, he'll move the incumbent. Kenny Lofton, February 2002, with Aaron Rowand in the wings?

 

Don't be shocked if Anderson is the 4th OF. It's far from ideal but if they (KW and Ozzie) feel he can handle it, it could happen. I know they like Anderson's makeup, they feel he's pretty unflappable.

 

I would also not be shocked to see Owens as the 4th OF. Again, far from ideal, considering he's still a bit raw. What he brings to the table is very intriguing - base stealing ability, contact hitting, good defense ... all of which Guillen likes.

 

Most of the time, it's not beneficial for a good prospect to play a reserve role in the big leagues, but sometimes circumstances dictate such a scenario is best for the team. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

[Reddy]

Jerry Owens - OF - White Sox

 

 

White Sox prospect Jerry Owens went 4-for-6 yesterday to raise his VWL average to .407.

It certainly doesn't get as much attention as the Cristian Guzman signing, but one of Nats GM Jim Bowden's worst moves since taking over was to give Owens to the White Sox in exchange for Alex Escobar. Owens, 24, hit .331/.393/.406 with 38 steals in 58 attempts for Double-A Birmingham last season and is batting .407/.490/.494 in 81 AB in Venezuela. Nov. 8 - 1:38 pm et

 

i think i'd be ok seeing him up next year. although i dunno about having him as a benchwarmer - guy like him needs to be playing until a starting spot opens up.